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  1. #111

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
    Michael Moore, the documentary filmmaker, of such fame as "Bowling for Columbine" and "Roger and Me", among others, was once criticized by someone who called his films biased.

    In classic Michael Moore fashion he replied, hey, it's my movie. If you don't like it make your own movie.

    Personally, I really like the Yellowstone Shootout and I'm very appreciative of the extreme amount of hard work and copious amounts of time and money that go it to producing the shoot out.

    Yes, it may have biases, but he makes those biases pretty clear, and there is a ton of useful information in those reviews.

    Hey, instead of writing criticisms that are maybe 20% factual about actual fishing stuff and the remaining 80% about how wonderful you think you are, why don't you do your own shoot out?

    I'm betting you think in NASCAR they put the decals on the cars because they look cool too? If the manufacturers and advertisers would like to subsidize me with test inventory, purchase incentives, royalties, floor plans, and additional allocations of inventory at discounts, and stipends and subsidy for my time writing an article, I'd be happy to perform a shootout too. I don't believe I posted any specific criticism, rather I simply stated that I don't have much appreciation for the results and consider them with a grain of salt. Business is business, don't be fooled, there is a method behind the madness and with nothing more than a distant, non insider, surface observance and appreciation, you will be exactly their target audience. Nuff said.

    PS: I might actually be 80% wonderful .

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  3. #112

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    I appreciate that Anderson does this shootout. It gives you a base point if you are inclined to use it. I f you disagree with him then buy opposite of his recommendations, if you agree then, hey, awesome you know which rod to buy!....Or if your like most of us and have your own little nuances and preferences then pay attentions to the details of the shootout, there is some good info among the reviews. I always appreciated the GLX vs XP argument many years ago...the answer to that argument is still the same.....Try it out!... I too think the X is a stinker of a rod (For Me) the weights and lengths I have tried. I was not impressed. The Radian on the other hand n the 9' 5 weight was a ...Many nice rods out there, by some good fly fishing people.

  4. #113

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    I would not have begun this thread if I regarded Anderson's Shootouts irrelevant. I look forward to them and, yes, re-refer to them for data. For example, several rod makers eschew labeling or specifying their rods' weights...Anderson weighs them presumably accurately.

    I've heard stories about these Shootouts from industry folk at Shows but I'll simply relate one I was peripherally involved with. A small, highly regarded rod maker from Europe was contacted by Anderson and invited to provide a rod for a Shootout. He responded, "Why do you want to test my rod, you can not sell them?" (they are not distributed in the US, direct sales only). "Oh, I've heard such great stuff about your rods though". So this man sends a rod to Montana, Anderson tests it, says "I love it is terrific but I'm not including it in my Shootout, I've run out of room for another rod" (or some such excuse). It is not for nothing that there is a little 'buy now' link next to every listed rod. And, in my somewhat less biased than Anderson's opinion (though I do have my own filters), the rod in question would have placed among the top three in the Shootout had it been included.

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  6. Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    I think I know which small European maker you’re talking about. Can’t wait to try one and see for myself.

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  8. #115

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    If I was interested in a new 4 wt or any wt for that matter I sure as hell wouldn't care what Andersen thought of it, The ONLY thing that matters to me is what I think about it and how it performs with my casting stroke in my hands, NOT HIS- it just that simple. My 2 cents


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  10. #116

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    cb, I agree with you, most of us would. However, do you, any of you, consider it possible to have a relatively objective evaluation of a fly rod? I specify relatively as there are no ways to establish numerical measurements for line speed, tip recovery, reserves of power, et al, as there is for acceleration, breaking, slalom course, and all for a sports sedan test for example. I think three or four skilled casters switching several fly lines around on a test rod will narrow its line preference down (for casting not necessarily a specialized type of angling) to one or two optimal matches. Watching one another cast to varied distance hoops on a pond, tip movement and the loop formations it generates and the ease and consistency with which it is accurate at the differing distances and how loop shape holds up can reveal plenty of data about a rods casting characteristics thus presentation potential. I believe I get a lot of information from a test cast rod during ascertaining its preferred fly line, experimenting with stroke length and power input and how it responds short mid and long. Of course, it takes actual angling to learn its true abilities and personality because then we are fishing it not merely casting it.

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  12. #117

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    It makes for interesting reading- but I was put off by the fact that they insisted on shoe horning all the rods they tested into an over-lining situation by using the GPX from their very first 5 wt shootout, years ago. That put a lot of rods at a major disadvantage before they even picked them up- and for anybody (me) who didn't like that particular line to begin with, greatly discounted any of the comments about feel, loading, etc from the onset.

    The Telluride Angler approach (and I'm not even a customer of theirs) just seems far more balanced and even handed- and strives to find a line that best matches each rod that they review. It also finds a situation where a particular rod may accel. Real world, as opposed to the "angling luminary's point of view".

    The 8 wt video from the park in Florida was an eye opener for me. Not a real impressive demonstration of casting prowess there. I am familiar with Anderson's accomplishments- but also what a polarizing guy he can be. I am willing to believe this "review" has a certain amount of bias before it even gets started.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  13. #118

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint

    osseous's point about YA employing 1/2 heavy, forward weight distribution biased lines like GPX/MPX/Infinity is very valid. Such line designs do have their place in putting out weighted, multi nymph rigs but are far from ideal casting or dry fly presentation matches for any 4-weight I'm familiar with (except one, an old Scott S3, there is always an exception). Remember though, GEORGE LIKES A NICE SOFT TIP, and a heavy line bends the tip more.

  14. #119

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint


    Again all the information is for great reading on a rainy day or it might make you a little dubious of how good is that certain rod is- but again it's all hog wash if it doesn't fit "MY" casting stroke, again a interesting read, But total BS till I cast it and it fits my casting stoke or my application of use or both, I don't know how much simpler I can say it. I guess you could say I am just a hands on 2 cents-CB

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  16. #120

    Default Re: 4-Weight Shootout 2019 Counterpoint


    Here is another way to look at it, How many of you guys would let somebody else pick out a rod for you? I have watched some of my friends who are great casters and ask to cast their rod, I couldn't cast it like they could and they couldn't cast mine as good as I could" we all have a different casting stroke" it's that simple-Anderson just thinks he found a better way to sell more rods, I'll bet you what ever his top pick is, they have plenty in stock! 2 cents the shoot out is a farce, end of story. CB

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