Winston Air / Scott G Comparison

[troutshaman]

Looking for a dedicated dry fly rod for Michigan and beyond in a 9' 5wt format.

Was wondering if anyone could offer up a comparison of sorts on the Scott G and the Winston Air or could give any input on either model individually.

Thank you.

 

[osseous]

I found the 9'5wt Air unremarkable. If you are seeking a rod specifically for dry fly fishing, consider dropping down to an 8'6". You'll get better accuracy and tighter loops.

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[cooutlaw]

I recently spent a significant amount of time casting and fishing several rods and came away with some comparative conclusions ( my opinion only here...YMMV)...It has always seemed to me that rod companies always have sweet spots in their lineups...here is what I see with Winston and new G Series....disclaimer: I am both a long term Winston and Scott fan. Also, because you specified "5wt dry fly" rod, I'll try and gear toward that, with the note that today's 5 wt rods don't specifically foster dry fly specialty usage only, even though some manufacturers tout them as such, and additionally, a "dry fly only 5wt" may have rarely, if ever, been on any makers radar.

IMO The Winston BIIIX was a fast by Winston standards rod (but not fast by industry standards)...and arguably the stiffest of the Winston offerings outside XD of categories. The BIIILS was a more traditional Softer Winston action, but also semi fast by Winston Standards (compared to say a WT). Both are now discontinued and "replaced" by the Air and Pure. My take, after spending time with each, is that the Pure is Faster than the BIIILS and the Air is not quite as fast as the BIIIX...making the Pure and Air much closer in profile gap than was the BIIILS and BIIIX. Concerning a bit, as replacement models they are pretty similar to be divided by varied use models - BUT...as stated previously, each "line" from a manufacturer has it's sweet spots, Many like fishing the BIIIX 9' 5wt as a versatile do it all type rod, I like the 9' 6wt better for versatility, and prefer the 9' 5wt BIIILS as a lighter, mid size water, dry/all-arounder. The Pure, IMO, is a dynamite new dry++ rod (in certain models) and exceeds the AIR in that regard in 7'6" 3wt, 8' 4wt, and 9' 5wt. The 8'6" 4wt Pure is nice, but quite a bit softer and a bit slower than the 8' 4wt is. I do think the Air in a 8'6" 4wt and 8'6" 5wt is a decent (now WOW but decent) dry rod - I'm not crazy about it in a 9' 5wt for predominant dry usage, more of an all-arounder, which doesn't surprise me knowing that 8'6" 5 wts have historically been a Winston sweet spot over the 9' models for drys (at least to veteran Winston fans). The Air is a nice rod, but, in the above configurations I like the Pure better, and ultimately believe the Pure will be far more likely to be a lasting Winston staple than the Air, which, arguably has not lived up to it's hype since release....although I do see how it can replace the BIIIX albeit a bit softer profile overall as an all arounder. Winston to Scott very rough and quick comparison in my mind, Air is a slow Radian, and, Pure is a fast new G Series - but barely.

Within the last month, a very well known large Scott Dealer is about to add Winston to there offerings as well, and the entire staff casted and fished for several days EVERY 2-7 weight in Winston's current offerings....their feedback was very similar to my take above, but they felt even stronger than I did about the 9' 5wt Pure being one of the sweethearts in the line-up and a very competitive new offering they'd have no trouble recommending.

In the G-series, I wrote in another post, there is a switch in model preferences happening since the redesign in the 4wts. But Both the 844 and 884 are extremely nice rods (dry based). Once stepping to the 5 wt GS, The 8'8" 5wt is an all around winner, and the 9' 5wt is a very nice but slightly slower rod, with a touch more reach. An unsung new hero in the new 9' 6wt GS line, which several guides have chosen to start stocking their boats with, has caught some pretty good accolades as a full proof new choice for that duty. Most guides don't talk much when questioned about gear, but when something works well enough to put extra tips in their pockets and makes their lives easier pleasing clients you can bet they will be early adopters.

All of the above said......the best advice is ALWAYS......CAST ALL OF THE RODS FOR YOURSELF.....take the time to find what fits your style and desires and you'll be much happier than a blind purchase.....IF 5wt is your sole goal....and Winston and Scott are your two preferences....then line up a 9' 5wt & 8'6" 5wt Air, 9' 5wt Pure, 8' 8" 5wt G series, and a 9' 5wt G series and cast them side by side, back to back.

Lastly, I'll put a nickel bet on it, that after casting them all, you'll have a hard time deciding between the 9' 5wt Pure and the 8'8" 5wt G series. Both however, may prove to be far more versatile rods than dedicated dry fly only. AGAIN, ALL THIS: my opinion only. YMMV.

 

[skcwolfgang]

I have the 9’5wt Air which I fish as my all around rod. I fish dry flies most of the time with an occasional dropper or light nymph rig. I have not tried the GS or Pure 5 wt. They were not out when I bought the Air. In my hands the Air is a versatile dry fly rod. I fished Slough Creek this summer and most of the catching was on a 12-14 ft leader with 6x and a size 20 ant. I caught a few over 20” with that setup. Excellent light tippet protection. It also casted hoppers and crickets at distance with some wind. There was sight fishing in clear water where accuracy and delicacy were required and this rod is very capable from 25-50 ft. I fished this rod last month on a tailwater fishing size 24 BWOs on 7x. I have been fishing an SA heritage presentation line that is a true to weight line. The rod really likes this line for dries. I would probably be happy with Pure or GS. I built the Air from a blank as I have big hands and wanted a bigger grip. I was unable to cast the 8’6” 5 wt prior to purchase, and I may have gone that way if I had been able to. I am sure there are better rods out, but I am quite happy with this rod.
Also I agree with cooutlaw, in that you need to compare head to head, which can be difficult. I test casted the Air a few times before purchase, and it fit my casting style and fishing preferences well.

 

[proheli]

Looking for a dedicated dry fly rod for Michigan and beyond in a 9' 5wt format.

Was wondering if anyone could offer up a comparison of sorts on the Scott G and the Winston Air or could give any input on either model individually.

Thank you.

Hi OP.

For starters I can tell you that when I called Winston to talk about the Air and the Pure, the guy I spoke to said that the PURE is the Dry Fly Rod, and the Air is the all around, meaning 1/3 Dry, 1/3 Dry dropper, 1/3 nympher. Remember that is all-around for a Winston.

Second, I have a GS in 884 and an AIR in 906. I know it’s not a good comparison, but the taper of the GS goes from the tip to about a half a foot or a foot above the cork before it really stiffens up. So, all the change happens in 7-7 1/2 feet. The AIR taper bends all the way to the end of the rod, so the change from soft tip to butt happens over 9’. To me this lets the AIR stay soft and bendy longer. Personally this is my favorite taper. The softer the rod the more skill it takes to cast and I’m not saying I’m a good caster, but this taper is my preference. I also find the AIR is a smoother Feeling rod, and I like this too. I don’t want it to sound like I don’t like the GS. There was a couple of days this summer when I actually thought it was a magic wand.

Also, of all the rod makers, and their respective models, you’re looking at rods that have some similar characteristics. Yes, a guy could just buy his theoretical favorite and I’m sure you’d be pleased with any of these, and there are times when someone is asking about two different rods and the answer is obvious what to tell him, but in this case, to find your personal favorite you’d have to go cast them. Sounds great. I’d even be willing to fly somewhere and rent a car for the day so I could cast them all back to back.

P.S. I’m not an over liner, and I would not let someone tell me to only test with an SA MPX or something like that. I’d want to feel how lively it was. I ran a 3.5wt on the 884 the other day and I could tell it was too light. For test casting I’d use a true weight SA Amp Trout or maybe a .3 heavy like Rio Gold.

 

[troutshaman]

I would be using a DT line or finer longer bellied WF lines and am by no means looking for a rod that needs to handle weighted flies or cast 80'.

More so looking for a rod that has the ability to cast moderately large dries to small dries 15' - 60' and offers great capabilities for mending without pulling the fly which many of these modern stiffer rods don't typically excel at.

I had considered the "Pure" but by Winstons definition, the Air should theoretically work better for the moderately larger dries.

I am out of country so casting isn't possible right now, but perhaps I will just force myself to be patient until I can. HaHa

 

[boisker]

I found the 9'5wt Air unremarkable. If you are seeking a rod specifically for dry fly fishing, consider dropping down to an 8'6". You'll get better accuracy and tighter loops.

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Why would you get tighter loops?

 

[osseous]

Why would you get tighter loops?

Faster recovery- go cast both. A tighter loop isn't the holy grail. As I've said elsewhere on the forum- the rod has to suit the individual- one man's opinion is just that. Buy what works for you.

Loop size is determined by the distance the rod tip travels after the "stop" in your stroke. A stiffer rod, or a rod that recovers faster can generate a tighter loop. All things being equal, the 8.5 will have a lower swing weight and faster recovery than a 9'- which will allow a tighter loop. I've had fast rods that thru tight loops which were hard to control and difficult to deliver a soft landing to the fly- You've gotta go cast them, let them speak to you... and fall in love...


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[mike_r]

If I wanted to punch a moderately sized dry (say a sz14 elkhair caddis to maybe a sz10 March Brown) 50-60 ft with a 9’ 5wt and a DT5F line, it wouldn’t be with a medium action Scott or Winston unless you were casting in a vacuum. Factor in some wind, and the ability to make mends with 30-40’ of fly line on the water and I (me personally) would want a stiffer rod in hand. I love fishing My SA Mastery Trout DT5F even out to 75’ (total distance from my hand to fly) just for the pure challenge of it. A rod like a Scott Radian or Sage X 9’ 5wt can handle that and cast the leader and 5’ of line out the tip. Here’s a rub for ya: the best rod with that same line and the fishing you describe was for me the Orvis Recon 905! It would throw tight loops so easily with a hand-tied 12’ 5x leader and a sz12 Crackleback in the 25-60’ range with that SA DT5F! Great mender and ridiculously light.

2cts


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[proheli]

Why would you get tighter loops?

Edit. Hi boisker, I know you I know I’m not answering a question you have, just adding on, sort of.

A loop tip for slow rod guys.

A stiff fast rod, only moving from 11 o’clock to 1:00 would theoretically throw the tightest loop. A guy can get more distance from lengthening the stroke, meaning moving the handle of the rod linearly or the arc from 10-2, etc. But then obviously we have the double haul. The more you haul, faster or longer, the more it loads the rod and the more powe/distance you get.

So, if you’ve got a soft or slow medium deep flexing rod, but still want some distance and/or tight loops, then adjust your stroke to 11-1 and haul like there is no tomorrow. A long aggressive haul at 12:00 will surprise you at how it will give you a tight fast loop. After the power part of the stroke you still lower the tip out of the way or whatever you are going to do with it.

 

[troutshaman]

If I wanted to punch a moderately sized dry (say a sz14 elkhair caddis to maybe a sz10 March Brown) 50-60 ft with a 9’ 5wt and a DT5F line, it wouldn’t be with a medium action Scott or Winston unless you were casting in a vacuum. Factor in some wind, and the ability to make mends with 30-40’ of fly line on the water and I (me personally) would want a stiffer rod in hand. I love fishing My SA Mastery Trout DT5F even out to 75’ (total distance from my hand to fly) just for the pure challenge of it. A rod like a Scott Radian or Sage X 9’ 5wt can handle that and cast the leader and 5’ of line out the tip. Here’s a rub for ya: the best rod with that same line and the fishing you describe was for me the Orvis Recon 905! It would throw tight loops so easily with a hand-tied 12’ 5x leader and a sz12 Crackleback in the 25-60’ range with that SA DT5F! Great mender and ridiculously light.

2cts


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That Recon is actually a really nice stick! I have fished it many times and owned many other Recon models.

I definitely want something a little softer for this rod than that Recon.

 

[troutshaman]

A loop tip for slow rod guys.

A stiff fast rod, only moving from 11 o’clock to 1:00 would theoretically throw the tightest loop. A guy can get more distance from lengthening the stroke, meaning moving the handle of the rod linearly or the arc from 10-2, etc. But then obviously we have the double haul. The more you haul, faster or longer, the more it loads the rod and the more powe/distance you get.

So, if you’ve got a soft or slow medium deep flexing rod, but still want some distance and/or tight loops, then adjust your stroke from 11-1 and haul like there is no tomorrow. A long aggressive haul at 12:00 will surprise you at how it will give you a tight fast loop. After the power part of the stroke you still lower the tip out of the way or whatever you are going to do with it.

I can get a tight loop to 80' - 100' with a TnT Sextant Bamboo rod "obviously this isn't a 5wt", what you say is so true, it is all about adjusting your stroke, when you apply the gas and how much gas you apply.

You can make a softer rod do a lot of things a stiffer rod will do, but you cannot make a stiffer rod do a lot of things a softer rod will do.

 

[troutshaman]

If I wanted to punch a moderately sized dry (say a sz14 elkhair caddis to maybe a sz10 March Brown) 50-60 ft with a 9’ 5wt and a DT5F line, it wouldn’t be with a medium action Scott or Winston unless you were casting in a vacuum. Factor in some wind, and the ability to make mends with 30-40’ of fly line on the water and I (me personally) would want a stiffer rod in hand. I love fishing My SA Mastery Trout DT5F even out to 75’ (total distance from my hand to fly) just for the pure challenge of it. A rod like a Scott Radian or Sage X 9’ 5wt can handle that and cast the leader and 5’ of line out the tip. Here’s a rub for ya: the best rod with that same line and the fishing you describe was for me the Orvis Recon 905! It would throw tight loops so easily with a hand-tied 12’ 5x leader and a sz12 Crackleback in the 25-60’ range with that SA DT5F! Great mender and ridiculously light.

2cts


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Also, I may add, you can do a lot more with a DT line at distance by underlining the rod. You maintain your ability to mend for miles, but don't overload during the cast.

That being said I would rarely be fishing beyond 45' and rarely be fishing in any wind, with this rod.

 

[osseous]

All true- but the distance your tip travels (up and down) after the stop will form the size of your loop. Modulating that is more difficult for the average angler with a longer and/or softer rod.

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[boisker]

Just to clarify I wasn’t actually asking a question requiring an answer regards loop formation My understanding is pretty good...

But, I just I didn’t see the connection between loops size and any significant difference between a 8’6” rod and a 9’ rod... I can throw very tight loops with the 8’4” GS and the 9’ radian... in fact I can equally throw tight loops with the an older vision cult that has a very slow / full flexing action and a 6’ butterstick.... and accuracy doesn’t come with the length of rod, I practice accuracy with a number of rods, the length doesn’t dictate how accurate I am, that’s comes down to my casting coordination...
Similarly I can cast all the usual fishing distances with both... the GS is absolutely fine out to 60’...
but if I was fishing at the distance all day I’d use the 9’ rod as it I would be fishing a larger river and the extra length would be beneficial, or on a tight stream I’d fish smaller... but pretty much in all cases I fish the longest rod appropriate, purely for the extra line control.
So, in all truth... although I have never fished the Winston I am sure both rods are great, You’ll only know which you prefer from trying them... just choose the length and weight that seems most appropriate for your intended fishing.

 

[mike_r]

Also, I may add, you can do a lot more with a DT line at distance by underlining the rod. You maintain your ability to mend for miles, but don't overload during the cast.

That being said I would rarely be fishing beyond 45' and rarely be fishing in any wind, with this rod.

I agree with you about dropping one line size for distance with a DT. I actually used that same SA Trout DT5 on my Winston BIIIx 690 when I wanted to sling small dries good distances. It worked well, was a pleasure to cast and made for good control of fish over 15”! My apologies for coming off as presumptuous as it may have read on my original response...you obviously are a very competent caster and seasoned fly fisherman. I don’t meet that many of them. I do meet a lot of guys that are willing to drop that $900 on a nice new fly rod, but never seem to put in the time practicing their casting in order to get the most out of it.

I like a good medium action rod for dries too, and fished a Winston IM6 and WT versions of the classic 586-3 with both DT and SA ultra WF 5’s and never had a problem reaching out there with a well timed double haul. Just not a rod I typically recommend for the average fly fisherman. It is hard to find a 9’ rod these days that exudes as much grace yet has the butt strength to turn a good fish. I am certain I would enjoy doing a side by side castoff between the Scott GS 905 and Winston Air and/or Pure rods. The Sage Mod 590 is a sweetheart, and it doesn’t seem to mind if you lean on it. It loads down into the middle of the rod, yet has a smooth but quick recovery. Would not be surprised if they discount that rod in the coming year if one was willing to wait a few months.


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[troutshaman]

I agree with you about dropping one line size for distance with a DT. I actually used that same SA Trout DT5 on my Winston BIIIx 690 when I wanted to sling small dries good distances. It worked well, was a pleasure to cast and made for good control of fish over 15”! My apologies for coming off as presumptuous as it may have read on my original response...you obviously are a very competent caster and seasoned fly fisherman. I don’t meet that many of them. I do meet a lot of guys that are willing to drop that $900 on a nice new fly rod, but never seem to put in the time practicing their casting in order to get the most out of it.

I like a good medium action rod for dries too, and fished a Winston IM6 and WT versions of the classic 586-3 with both DT and SA ultra WF 5’s and never had a problem reaching out there with a well timed double haul. Just not a rod I typically recommend for the average fly fisherman. It is hard to find a 9’ rod these days that exudes as much grace yet has the butt strength to turn a good fish. I am certain I would enjoy doing a side by side castoff between the Scott GS 905 and Winston Air and/or Pure rods. The Sage Mod 590 is a sweetheart, and it doesn’t seem to mind if you lean on it. It loads down into the middle of the rod, yet has a smooth but quick recovery. Would not be surprised if they discount that rod in the coming year if one was willing to wait a few months.


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If you like DT lines, you should try the Airflo Super Dri Elite DT line some time. It's pretty cool in the sense, one end is great for smaller dries and the other end is made to handle larger dries.

I guess it's a true "Double Taper" haha, but in all seriousness, since trying it out last year, it quickly became my go to line for fishing dries.

Have a Merry Christmas!

 

[sweetandsalt]

I'll simply add to take the habitat you prefer into consideration as well as your presentation style. As a high line speed, defier of gravity, requiring counter flex-free recovery for my dry fly techniques, neither of these rods would make my list. Do not limit yourself by Brand; test as many rods as possible and add T&T Avantt, Sage X and Loomis Asquith to your to try list.

 

[troutshaman]

I should have mentioned, I have experience with the G2 and G series of old and new. My original post did not reflect that very well.

Was mostly curious as to how the Air compared to them.

 

[troutbum_74]

Love my G, G2 and G Series Rods. My favorites actually. I find that the new G Series Rods are actually great nymphing rods as well as great dry fly rods. Love my 885 and 906 the most for a dual threat


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