G. Loomis NRX with a crooked blank - how much is acceptable?

[slinginbugs]

I purchased a Loomis NRX 9' #6 last spring, and have used it a few times.

The second or third time assembling the rod and sighting down the rod to align the guides i noticed how crooked the blank is. The second part (from the bottom) has a banana-like bend in it, first curving right, then back left. It also curves slightly 'upwards' making the flex of the rod significantly different when holding it with the guides up compared to the guides down. When spinning the rod in my hand the unevenness is clearly felt and seen as the rod is convex on the side of the guides.

When flexing the rod in the air (like when you inspect its flex pattern with a short casting motion with a hard stop) there is a substantial difference when the guides are up (more flex) and when the guides are down (firmer feel). I dont know if the last part is due to the rod design and its spine?

In addition, the hook keeper is not aligned with the position of the reel (may be designed to be like that?)

Now, the problem is i cannot reach anyone from Loomis. I have attempted to contact Loomis for 6 months regarding this issue! No replies, AT ALL to any of my e-mails. To make matters worse, the shop I bought it from here in Denmark closed down last summer and has been replaced by a store not selling Loomis..

How much curvature is acceptable in a rod blank and is it reasonable to ask for a replacement rod?

I may be nitpicking here, but it's hard to accept this with a rod i payed 920 USD.

I'm grateful for any opinions on this, or tips on what to do or who to contact.

Jon

 

[hollisd]

Is there a chance you purchased the rod used?

Do you have proof of purchase?

Their Xpeditor program is only for US / Canada but G. Loomis has one of the best warranties in the business although Europe might compromise that but not necessarily.

I would call G. Loomis customer service at 1-877-577-0600 and explain the situation and I'm sure they'll help you find a resolution.

In the meantime contact a reputable dealer that carries G. Loomis in Denmark, explain what happened, and seek their advice too.

Those should have you closer to an answer hopefully today.

Honestly though my gut says this is a little sketchy because when I hear stories like this the fly shop always closed. It's the fly rod equivalent of the dog ate my homework.

 

[dharkin]

"In addition, the hook keeper is not aligned with the position of the reel (may be designed to be like that?)"



Hmmmmm,

I didn't know the NRX came with a hook keeper.

 

[hollisd]

Hmmmmm,

I didn't know the NRX came with a hook keeper.

I believe the 9' #6 does

 

[bonefish41]

"Honestly though my gut says this is a little sketchy because when I hear stories like this the fly shop always closed. It's the fly rod equivalent of the dog ate my homework."
I would agree...paying 920 but before paying assemble and examine...his description sounds like he purchased a fake at a gypsy flea market...

Straw Poll: Who has in the last 5 or so years seen a new high end(800-1,000) Sage, Loomis, Scott, Winston, Orvis with a dog leg section...

 

[eastfly66]

Since the shop is no longer , your going to have to take it up with Loomis/Shimano and I have had CS on the phone before but it was a bit of a process. This is just a shot in the dark but what you may have is not mis-aligned sections but mis-matched sections. Perhaps the shop had more than one of these 906's out for display and in the process or putting them away they got the sctions mixed up. I doubt it is a fake if it came from any shop and I can't see the motive in making up the story for us here as there is nothing to gain thus no motive. I seriously doubt Shimano cares what the opinion is of this forum.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Straw Poll: Who has in the last 5 or so years seen a new high end(800-1,000) Sage, Loomis, Scott, Winston, Orvis with a dog leg section...

Modern, quality graphite rods have indeed become remarkably straight and spline symmetrical, quite an accomplishment really. I have 4 NRX's, all straight. Now if we were talking about GLX's, that is another story.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I seriously doubt Shimano cares what the opinion is of this forum.

I believe they do.

Warranty

 

[biker1usa]

"Honestly though my gut says this is a little sketchy because when I hear stories like this the fly shop always closed. It's the fly rod equivalent of the dog ate my homework."
I would agree...paying 920 but before paying assemble and examine...his description sounds like he purchased a fake at a gypsy flea market...

Straw Poll: Who has in the last 5 or so years seen a new high end(800-1,000) Sage, Loomis, Scott, Winston, Orvis with a dog leg section...

I whole heartedly agree.

 

[eastfly66]

I believe they do.

Warranty

S&S,I didn't say they would not stand behind the product. In fact I believe with the proper paperwork they will have one of the dealers resolve the issue right away. I do not believe they will bend or alter their policy due to opinion on this forum.


Mr. slinging bugs , isn't there a show coming up over there ? I believe you might catch a Loomis rep there ? I think the show is in Denmark too ???

 

[sweetandsalt]

Not alter policy, east, but I have had discussions with top Loomis people and they may not monitor what we write but do care and want to know about both positive and negative Forum opinions.

Most industry pros believe the internet community knows little and fact checks less. Still we are the active participants in the fly fishing public and do buy their products. We are a force to be reckoned with.

 

[eastfly66]

We are on the same page, just not the same paragraph. I'm sure comment here has merit from a marketing point of view but not for product return policy. I'm sure with the proper paperwork they will make the customer happy.

 

[akos75]

A picture would help to form an opinion about the bend being acceptable or not.

The expeditor warranty does not apply to Europe. There is very little support for G-Loomis in Europe, not even a direct contact on the website, nor a dealer list.

This company has handled warranty claims in Europe a couple of year ago (I had to get the address from the main European G-Loomis rep, who I happen to know, but there was no connection between this company and G-Loomis published anywhere on the internet), so you might try your luck with them: Felindre Innovations – Fishing Reel Repairs / Spares / UK

Scott, Sage and Orvis have great support in Europe, but only for the rods which have been purchased from European dealers.

 

[proheli]

Hi Slinginbugs.

I’ve had two rods I sent back for not being straight in the last couple of years, both high-end. So don’t let anyone tell you that it doesn’t happen anymore. In both cases, with just a little communication both companies were happy to send me another one. One seemed a little offended that I would suggest such a thing - this just seemed like hollow grand standing to me, and the other was just very interested in getting me a pole I was happy with. The one that was offended, that tip section went in 3 different directions, like it had been broken and repaired. The company that was really concerned about me being very satisfied, did let me know they thought the one I returned was within their acceptable tolerances. However, most importantly, both companies sent me new poles that were stratight. Straight.

At one point, I wondered if it was in my imagination. I knew it wasn’t, but I went to a local fishing store that had a lot of fly rods on display, maybe a hundred.

In the first 10 or so I picked up:

6-7were perfectly straight.
2 had a tip that moved off at the end just slightly.
1 had a noticeable curve.
1 was just plain crooked.

I remember the company that was concerned about my being happy really wanted to see the rod because the guy said that crookedness can affect accuracy.

I remember the crooked rods and I won’t name any names, but I’ll tell you the straight ones, lol. Sage X and Sage Igniter. There were a lot of other straight ones too, of course, but at this point I have learned my lesson. If I get a new rod, I take it into a room with lots of light and I start sighting down the sections. Taking my time, no need to hurry, really look. Put the rod together a few times and sight down the whole thing. At the very least you’ll start to notice things, a guide foot that is a little off center, or alignment dots that aren’t precisely aligned. The more you look the more you learn.

I think the lesson is that with current manufacturing methods, perfection is not possible rod after rod after rod, so as the purchaser, just be responsible for this and look down you new rods to your satisfaction before you spend the money. Any fly shop is going to be willing to order you another one or special order you one. These guy’s livelihood is depending on your satisfaction.

 

[bonefish41]

Guys ...don't we have to distinguish "Big Shimano" from little "Loomis Shimano" for some time post acquisition from Gary wasn't Loomis treated like the red headed step child or the Squire's "B" Big S sells some very expensive conventional gear and supports that segment...here's their site for fishing and their focus appears to be conventional...

Australia (English)
Brazil (Português)
Czech Republic (český)
China (简体中文)
Germany (Deutsch)
Europe (English)
France (Français)
Italia (Italiano)
Japan (日本語)
L.A. Countries (Español)
Netherlands & Belgium (Nederlands)
New Zealand (English)
North America (English)
Poland(Polska)
Southeast Asia / South Asia (English)
Spain (Español)
Turkey (Turkish)
United Kingdom (English)
Russia (русский)
PowerPro (English)

However, here's what their EU site states about Loomis rods:

G.LOOMIS LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY

Valid as of 1 January 2010

This warranty covers G.Loomis branded products (the "G.Loomis Products") distributed by Shimano Europe Fishing Holding B.V., High Tech Campus 92, 5656 AG, Eindhoven, the Netherlands (“Shimano”).
WARRANTY PERIOD

Rods
Shimano warrants to the original owner that G.Loomis rods are free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal conditions and reasonable use for the lifetime of the original owner.

But I return to my original comment...buying a rod with a dog leg...bring to mind ...A Midsummer Nights Dream Act 3, scene 2, 110–115

 

[silver creek]

I purchased a Loomis NRX 9' #6 last spring, and have used it a few times.

I purchased a Loomis NRX 9' #6 last spring, and have used it a few times.

The second or third time assembling the rod and sighting down the rod to align the guides i noticed how crooked the blank is. The second part (from the bottom) has a banana-like bend in it, first curving right, then back left. It also curves slightly 'upwards' making the flex of the rod significantly different when holding it with the guides up compared to the guides down. When spinning the rod in my hand the unevenness is clearly felt and seen as the rod is convex on the side of the guides.

When flexing the rod in the air (like when you inspect its flex pattern with a short casting motion with a hard stop) there is a substantial difference when the guides are up (more flex) and when the guides are down (firmer feel). I dont know if the last part is due to the rod design and its spine?

In addition, the hook keeper is not aligned with the position of the reel (may be designed to be like that?)

Now, the problem is i cannot reach anyone from Loomis. I have attempted to contact Loomis for 6 months regarding this issue! No replies, AT ALL to any of my e-mails. To make matters worse, the shop I bought it from here in Denmark closed down last summer and has been replaced by a store not selling Loomis..

How much curvature is acceptable in a rod blank and is it reasonable to ask for a replacement rod?

I may be nitpicking here, but it's hard to accept this with a rod i payed 920 USD.

I'm grateful for any opinions on this, or tips on what to do or who to contact.

Jon

"Hamlet, The Rodmaker, Act III, Scene I

To spline or not to spline is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the slings and arrows of splining a rod
Or to take arms against as sea of troubles,
and by opposing splining to spline no more
And by not splining we end the heartache and
the thousand natural shocks
splining a rod is heir to. 'Tis a consumation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To not spline, to sleep
Perchance to dream; ay there's the rub!

I believe that GLoomis splines the rod so that the guides are lined up on the stiffer side. That is why the rod is stiffer when the guides are down (stiffer on the forward cast for longer casts).

This can result in a rod that "looks" crooked when sighted down the rod blank. However in theory, the rod should/could/may cast straighter. I know that seems counterintuitive but in theory a rod that is "crooked," but has the guides on or opposite the rod spine/spline should cast straighter than a rod that looks straight but is the spine/spline is mismatched.

Sage does not spine/spline their rods. They assemble the blank in the straightest way and then put on the guides. So the rods look straight but can be assembled with the spine/spline randomly angled along the rod blank.

This is from an old Sage page that is no longer up:

"The Sage Rod Company has this to say about location of the spline:

WHAT DO THE WHITE DOTS REPRESENT ON THE SAGE BLANKS?

The white dots are placed there by our quality control department and represent the straightest alignment of the different parts of the rod blank. At the factory, we place the guides on the same side as the white dots to ensure a straight finished rod.

WHERE SHOULD I PLACE THE GUIDES RELATED TO THE SPINE?

Sage places the guides on the same side as the white dots and does not spine the rod. Based on today's materials, designs and taper-lock ferrule system used at Sage, our engineers feel there is no need to spine the rod."

Here is an old thread:

Straight fly rod blanks

You can read about rod spine/splines here and see a video on how the rod assemblers at Thomas and Thomas spine/spline the rod prior to winding on the guides:

Spine Of The Rod - Fly Fisherman

Did you notice that the video in the article above DID NOT show the view of the assembled rod blank looking down the blank? The reason is that by splining the rod, the rod can have curves from section to section!

Here’s what Epic Fly Rods thinks about spining/splining a fly rod. He thinks that it does not matter which if true means that your slightly curvy rod will cast straight!!!

SPINING A FLY ROD - TO SPINE OR NOT TO SPINE – The Swift Fly Fishing Company

Here are some more links:

https://elkhornflyrodandreel.com/shop-news/jims-blog/2-what-about-spline/

Finding The Spine On A Fishing Rod Blank - Mud Hole Blog

 

[trout trekker]

How does it cast & fish? If it tracks true, gives you the distance, accuracy and feel that you wanted, then it's more of an asthetic issue, since you've had it for a while and fished it....

Are you concerned about it's resale value?
I'll bet if you had a brand new one, never fished and they discontiuned them, the new one with warranty card intact would be worth more than a crooked used one that's been registered.

Dave

 

[bonefish41]

"Perchance to dream; ay there's the rub!" I do not dream but just follow the white dots

 

[sweetandsalt]

Understandably , as in the OP's inquiry, rod companies prioritize straightness or the appearance there of over splining. I'm compelled to assume they know what they are doing even though back in the days when I built rods from blanks, I always carefully splined them. I went to Silver Creeks link to the older thread about straightness and re-read my 3 yr. old post and still feel exactly the same way. And today, after sighting down a new rod examining for any sweep, I still roll the tip to check the spline. While splines a far less pronounced than they used to be, I'm still happier when the guides do in fact align with the spline properly.

 

[czando]

I had an issue with an Asquith and they sent me a new one in 3 days no questions asked and no charge. It was the fastest service of any rod company I have dealt with!


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