The soul of a fly rod.

[JDR]

I don't understand fly rods. I know they work because they bend and they bend because of the taper built into the rod and the material of manufacture. That's the limit of my knowledge - summed up in one sentence. I would like to learn more. Frankly, I don't even know what questions to ask at this point.
When I look at any rod, I can see the taper from the butt to the tip, but all rods look virtually alike. How much difference is there in taper from from one good rod to another? I think position of the tapering determines the action of the rod - right? When Orvis comes out with the H3, how much real difference is the taper from the H2, or is it new and different because of materials and construction? (Orvis is just an example) Maybe Loomis would be a better example. The NRX and NRX LP have been dubbed the perfect fly rod. Now Loomis has the Asquith. I know it has a different construction than the NRX, but I think the taper is different too. Is it a superior rod to its brother? If it is,why? If all things are equal, is there a "golden" taper that everyone agrees works best? I also know that people choose favorites for personal and sometimes inexplicable reasons.
I'm sorry this is a little disjointed, I am sure if I knew more I could ask better questions. Maybe someone could point me to a source?

 

[JDR]

The title should read The soul of a fly rod

 

[jco]

I don't understand fly rods. I know they work because they bend and they bend because of the taper built into the rod and the material of manufacture. That's the limit of my knowledge - summed up in one sentence. I would like to learn more. Frankly, I don't even know what questions to ask at this point.
When I look at any rod, I can see the taper from the butt to the tip, but all rods look virtually alike. How much difference is there in taper from from one good rod to another? I think position of the tapering determines the action of the rod - right? When Orvis comes out with the H3, how much real difference is the taper from the H2, or is it new and different because of materials and construction? (Orvis is just an example) Maybe Loomis would be a better example. The NRX and NRX LP have been dubbed the perfect fly rod. Now Loomis has the Asquith. I know it has a different construction than the NRX, but I think the taper is different too. Is it a superior rod to its brother? If it is,why? If all things are equal, is there a "golden" taper that everyone agrees works best? I also know that people choose favorites for personal and sometimes inexplicable reasons.
I'm sorry this is a little disjointed, I am sure if I knew more I could ask better questions. Maybe someone could point me to a source?

the soul of the rod should be in harmony with the soul of the fly fisher.

 

[gpwhitejr]

I have some of those same questions. It is my understanding that the morphology of the taper and the nature of the material it is made out of (bamboo, fiberglass, graphite, etc. as well as the matrix material) affect how rapidly the rod bends and recovers, how far down the shaft it bends, and other such things. I think some of these characteristics are scientifically measurable. But different users like different things, and talk about "feel," which I don't think is measurable. So I don't believe there is an "ideal" or "golden" taper that everyone will agree is the best (is the ideal car red or blue?). What I don't get is what makes one rod worth $1000 while the one next to it costs $100: is it the measurable factors or the subjective "feel"?

 

[mcnerney]

The title should read The soul of a fly rod

Brook: I updated the title of the thread for you.

 

[Flyfisher for men]

Their might be a taper that fits most people, but the truth is, rods are very subjective. Quality of materials certainly can have a lot to do with a rod's superiority, but there are limits.

In the end, it comes down to what feels good to the caster and how well they can cast that particular rod.

Personally, I shrug my shoulders at fine rods. I just can't get any more excited about them than I do a new screwdriver, and that' mainly because I don't feel handicapped in what I'm doing. Also, I'd rather spend $100 on a rod and $900 on a fishing trip, than $1,000 on a rod.

I come from the Larry the Cable Guy school of flyfishing. That $100 rod will get "Git-R-Done."

As for a dollar value, that's an economics question, the sort of thing I use to have my high school students graph on the board in class in teacher days. Those subjective factors are "tastes," and tastes help determine what people are willing and able to pay in the various categories of rods for sale.

I'm sorry this is a little disjointed, I am sure if I knew more I could ask better questions.

What can help with this is distinct paragraphs. Break up your post into chunks. I use a space between paragraphs.

 

[karstopo]

Rods have personalities and skill sets, kind of like people. Some rods are easier to like than others. Certain personalities, rods, go better with certain personalities, people.

Is there a perfect personality or rod that goes with everyone and everyone will like? I doubt it. Look at how much inherit difference there is between graphite and fiberglass rods. Some folks wouldn't be caught dead fishing glass and some can't stand graphite. Who is right? There's the bamboo lover.

Even within Graphite and Fiberglass there are different fibers and modulus ratings, different scrims, different fiber orientations, different resins, etc.

What is perfect anyway? Is there a mythical perfect stream to go with the supposed perfect rod. Who gets to make that call?

 

[cerec_cat]

The soul of my fly rods consist of the fish caught and the trips made while using them

 

[flyminded]

I think the OP is enquiring as much about the science as they are the soul.

The soul is a lot of things some tangible some not ... the science is pretty well defined and then protected once you get to a certain depth and beyond.

 

[sweetandsalt]

"So I don't believe there is an "ideal" or "golden" taper that everyone will agree is the best (is the ideal car red or blue?)."

Is the ideal car a sports car or a Suburban and if there was a perfect taper for all there would be but one rod. Yes, all rods are tapered and bend but dramatically differently. The rod designer varies the taper externally and internally via compound changes in diameter and wall thickness. Material plays a big roll in design too and better graphite rods today blend fibers of differing stiffness in different sections of the rod to where and how much it will bend under load. Experienced casters feel or better,perceive the compound flexural profile of a given rod in harmony with its line and employ different parts of the taper via stroke length and power application for different casts. A fly rod is a synthesis of science and art and can be one dimensionally simple to learning curve required complex. Luckily we enjoy a wide range of choices in characteristics...even color.

 

[gpwhitejr]

Which is better: Stratocaster or Les Paul?

 

[silver creek]

I don't understand fly rods. I know they work because they bend and they bend because of the taper built into the rod and the material of manufacture. That's the limit of my knowledge - summed up in one sentence. I would like to learn more. Frankly, I don't even know what questions to ask at this point.

When I look at any rod, I can see the taper from the butt to the tip, but all rods look virtually alike.....

I don't blame you for being confused.

One thing I can add is that there are 2 tapers to a fly rod.

Like most fly fishers, you think that there is one "taper" to the fly rod, the one that we can see on the OUTSIDE.

Since a fly rod is HOLLOW, there is a taper INSIDE the fly rod. This taper is formed by the mandrel that the graphite scrim and flag is wrapped around. Naturally, the taper of the mandrel plus the flag and scrim = the taper we see on the outside.

Since I am not a rod designer, I don't know how using a different mandrel taper with identical flags and scrim will affect the how the rod bends, but intuition tell me that it should. For example, if the mandrel is thinner at one point or all points, the rod wall will be thicker with the same flag and scrim. I suspect that this would stiffen the rod but I am not sure. Maybe it makes the rod less stiff.

The point is that two rods can look exactly the same on the outside, but have different internal tapers and will perform differently.

 

[jangles]

I don't understand fly rods.

Like all things in life this too shall pass Grasshopper .

 

[taylorreels]

So I don't believe there is an "ideal" or "golden" taper that everyone will agree is the best (is the ideal car red or blue?). What I don't get is what makes one rod worth $1000 while the one next to it costs $100: is it the measurable factors or the subjective "feel"?

Fly rods are simply tools... Like any tool you choose the tool according to the job. I am not a believer in picking rods according to casting stroke. You pick your rod and adjust your casting stroke according to the job you need to accomplish. I kinda like to compare rods to paint brushes; certain brushes allow certain techniques, strokes, and application of paint. Certain fly rods are better close, far, from a boat, with streamers, dry flies, double nymphs, etc... So do rods have a soul???? hmmm I would say every rod has a purpose.

 

[osseous]

Take two sheets of paper. Roll one as tight as you can into a tube. Roll the other relatively loosely. Flex each roll until it buckles and folds. See how much different the force was that was required for each? Yet, you started with two identical sheets of paper. Imagine the paper was highly resilient, and rather than a tube.....it was a cone.... now a compound cone. Four compound cones joined by ferrules? Starting to understand how big a deal taper can be?! Infinite possibilities...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[tcorfey]

I have not seen a couple aspects of the rod discussed which is the quality of the guides, the handle and the reel seat. Also the amount of R&D that went in to the rod development will have an impact on the rods final pricing. Not to mention the cost of labor used to produce a rod, as everyone is aware labor costs are higher for rods built in the USA. Some of those items may come in to play for some consumers whom are willing to pay more for perceived quality.

Tom Rosenbauer in one or more of the Orvis podcasts discussed what it takes to bring a rod to market and it was pretty interesting to listen to.




Regards,

Tim C.

 

[seattlesetters]

Over the decades, as more and more of my fishing involves travel and considerable expense with limited time, I find that the performance of a fly rod has increased in importance exponentially. I simply want the very best tool for the job and I am far more willing to pay for it so that I can meet every challenge on the water. Or, at least be defeated knowing I gave it my best shot.

When the guides yells, “Permit! Ten o’clock, sixty feet!” then as soon as your line hits the water screams even louder, “Giant Permit! Two o’clock, eighty feet! Cast NOW!” I really want a rod that allows me to pick up 60’ of line and reposition it 80’ away without a false cast. I love that challenge. The $100 cheapo or even the $600 off-shore, machine-made rods just don’t do that.

My time on the water is precious. I’m a spot & stalk angler, and I take my pleasure from the tackling the ultimate challenges of rising Rainbows on the Henry’s Fork, cruising bonefish in 12” of water on the flats of South Andros and tailing Permit mudding up small crabs in the calm, clear water of Ascension and Espiritu Santo Bays. I need to drop a fly without a whisper one moment, make and impossible multi-aerial mend cast across 70’ of microcurrents the next and power a heavy crab pattern into the teeth of a 15 knot headwind the next.

When I have a rod in my hand that I know will do the seemingly impossible if I do my part, it gives me confidence and makes the intensity of these challenges the absolute highest it can be. When I feel that confidence and that intensity and that dejection when I screw it up and the elation when I do it right, that’s when I know I have a rod with soul.

I’m lucky enough to have recognized this and own several right now.

 

[tcorfey]

Seattlesetters you make fly fishing sound exciting.... good job! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Hirdy]

I say just go out can cast a few. Don't get too hung up on them. The first one you buy is just that - the first. Many will follow, some of which you'll like and keep, the others you will pass on to the next owner.

Learn on the job and have fun doing it.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[SDMT]

They build blanks with the least amount of bend from side to side. The amount of bend from front to back is different.
Then you have all else engineered into the blank. It ain’t just taper at all.
Then in building. Stiffness of the guides. Single, double, triple wrap can change the stiffness. Also single or double foot guides.

Can do a whole lot to make a blank different.

I know of one saltwater rod builder. He made his rods backward. They bent more with a fish on. Not supposed to build that way. His rods broke more easily. But many liked them.

I used to fish one of those old sage 9’6wt. It had tons of power. But I admit it was a stick. Not enough feel to it.

I hadn’t fly fished in 18 years. (Almost died) Recently went on a float trip in Montana. Guide provided an Orvis Clearwater 9’5wt. I was impressed. That is a beautifully nice rod. I really liked it a lot. For me personally. I would like a little more backbone in the rod. Cast well a little further. As long as the fishing stays closer. I’d always thoroughly enjoy that rod. .... My assumption is that rods have gotten much better.

I do intend to try out one of those thousand dollar Loomis rods. My fly shop says they’re pretty sweet. But worth a thousand dollars? Me thinks it’s mostly that people will pay.
I don’t need no stinking Ferrari. I’m more than happy with my Corolla.