Fly rod upgrade questions

[Mlatimer]

Been using a cheap pflueger combo 5/6wt for the past year and a half and it’s done me good enough to learn to cast and get the basics down. I recently had the chance to try a friends Orvis and the difference in feel was astounding. Ever since then I’ve been shopping for a quality rod. I’ve narrowed it down to 3 in 3 or 4wt, on the graphite team we have the Redington classic trout and TFO pro series 2, on the glass team we have the butterstick. At this point it’s just choosing between glass or graphite. I have only used graphite up to this point so I have no experience with noodly fiberglass rods. I have heard that the new butterstick is not as slow and noodly as the first one so that might make it less of a transition. I do know that one of my big gripes about my current rod is it’s too stiff for my liking making glass an attractive option. Some people say stick with good ol graphite and others say glass is superior for various reasons. Will glass be hard to get used too or easier to use than graphite? I have heard both. Maybe I should stop talking about it and just do it?

 

[clouserguyky]

Been using a cheap pflueger combo 5/6wt for the past year and a half and it’s done me good enough to learn to cast and get the basics down. I recently had the chance to try a friends Orvis and the difference in feel was astounding. Ever since then I’ve been shopping for a quality rod. I’ve narrowed it down to 3 in 3 or 4wt, on the graphite team we have the Redington classic trout and TFO pro series 2, on the glass team we have the butterstick. At this point it’s just choosing between glass or graphite. I have only used graphite up to this point so I have no experience with noodly fiberglass rods. I have heard that the new butterstick is not as slow and noodly as the first one so that might make it less of a transition. I do know that one of my big gripes about my current rod is it’s too stiff for my liking making glass an attractive option. Some people say stick with good ol graphite and others say glass is superior for various reasons. Will glass be hard to get used too or easier to use than graphite? I have heard both. Maybe I should stop talking about it and just do it?

For starters, what type of water and tactics are you using? Are you fishing small smokies streams there in TN?

 

[brownbass]

Mlatimer, All of the rods you mentioned are good rods. You did not mention where and how you will be fishing. If you are talking small waters I like the Classic and the Butterstick. The 7'6" 4 weight Butterstick is a nic casting rod. It would be a great small creek rod.

Bill

 

[hollisd]

Maybe I should stop talking about it and just do it?

Sewanee grad here. If you're looking for us to enable you that's what we're here for!

If you thought your buddy's Orvis was nice have you tried the likes of G Loomis, Winston, or Sage?

Put something with a little magic in your hand for life's too short to fish mediocre fly rods

I would also look at Fenwick's Aetos for outstanding value though the cork would lose by double digits to UT football this season

 

[gpwhitejr]

Rather than having to make a decision, buy both.

 

[Mlatimer]

let me elaborate, I frequent the caney fork river and every now and then I make it to the elk or the duck. Tail waters are where I spend majority of my time, but I make it to the smokies several times a year. The tail waters here in TN are not very large so casting long distance isn't a necessity, and wind isn't a big problem here either. Tactic wise i'm up for a little bit of everything, whatever it takes to catch fish on these pressured rivers. The ability to use dry flies, midges/nymphs, and small streamers would be nice but I don't use streamers too often. I haven't mastered any techniques, but I can fish a dry fly pretty well. The budget at the moment doesn't allow for both, though I plan to acquire both in time. Glass should be adequate for my purposes in the 4wt right?

 

[silver creek]

Been using a cheap pflueger combo 5/6wt for the past year and a half and it’s done me good enough to learn to cast and get the basics down. I recently had the chance to try a friends Orvis and the difference in feel was astounding. Ever since then I’ve been shopping for a quality rod. I’ve narrowed it down to 3 in 3 or 4wt, on the graphite team we have the Redington classic trout and TFO pro series 2, on the glass team we have the butterstick. At this point it’s just choosing between glass or graphite. I have only used graphite up to this point so I have no experience with noodly fiberglass rods. I have heard that the new butterstick is not as slow and noodly as the first one so that might make it less of a transition. I do know that one of my big gripes about my current rod is it’s too stiff for my liking making glass an attractive option. Some people say stick with good ol graphite and others say glass is superior for various reasons. Will glass be hard to get used too or easier to use than graphite? I have heard both. Maybe I should stop talking about it and just do it?

let me elaborate, I frequent the caney fork river and every now and then I make it to the elk or the duck. Tail waters are where I spend majority of my time, but I make it to the smokies several times a year. The tail waters here in TN are not very large so casting long distance isn't a necessity, and wind isn't a big problem here either. Tactic wise i'm up for a little bit of everything, whatever it takes to catch fish on these pressured rivers. The ability to use dry flies, midges/nymphs, and small streamers would be nice but I don't use streamers too often. I haven't mastered any techniques, but I can fish a dry fly pretty well. The budget at the moment doesn't allow for both, though I plan to acquire both in time. Glass should be adequate for my purposes in the 4wt right?

I personally would not buy glass without casting it.

There are two issues.

First is the material: graphite vs glass
Second are the rods.

At least you have casted graphite and have some idea of how it feels in terms of mass and swing weight.

The second issue is rod design and I presume that you have not casted either of the graphite rods you are thinking of buying and you certainly have not casted the glass rod.

Here's the deal. You don't know what you don't know. Plus you are also changing the rod weight by several line classes.

You can probably buy either the graphite rod and be happy. Although they will be a different than what you own, you will have confirmation bias. You may buy an inferior rod for your style of casting but you will adapt and you will love it because you have spent so much money on it.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

Do you due diligence and at least TRY to find a butterstick to cast and one close in wt and length to the one you are thinking of buying. It is so different from the other two rod that you need to know what you are buying.

Rod action is also important. A medium or moderate action will be closest to what you are used to. That would be the Redington Classic Trout. This rod will be better if you are going to mainly fish dries. However, I like medium fast because I think it it is a better all around rod. That would be the TFO Pro Series II.

As for the Butterstick, I think this is a rod you HAVE to try given that it is $100 more than the Classic Trout and the TFO and the fact that it is a SLLOOOWWW action fly rod. You really have to get used to slow action rods if you are learned on most graphite rods.

Read what this review says:

Review: Redington Butter Stick fly rod (2019) | Hatch Magazine - Fly Fishing, etc.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I just want to add one thing to Silvers thought about trying glass before buying it.

There is really slow glass and there is much faster responsive glass which reminds me of graphite only a little heavier and a little quirky. Modern glass is different than vintage, and tapers are complex and may not be enjoyable.

I love glass and I`m still very unsure about if I like the butterstick. It really didn't turn me on, other people love it. Glass these days is like anything,

Light glass rods tend to be shorter, and that doesn't play well where I fish, glass should be effortless but the wrong rod and taper that is too short can make fishing more work than enjoyable.

Just some thoughts.

 

[proheli]

My local shop had the original Buttersticks and I had cast the 4wt a couple of times. The glass on the bs is pretty loose. I like the 2 and 3, but if I was a new guy, I wouldn’t get the 4, it’s just to far from the center of the bell curve if it was going to be someone’s only rod. At least cast it first.

 

[gutterpunk]

The CT is a good rod. It will definitely be an upgrade and you'll be able to cast it well. Just get it.

 

[AzTrouter]

Sometimes it’s a matter of deciding what you don’t like to figure out what you do haha

We fish a lot of brushy small/medium streams in the AZ and I have loaned several newbies my beater CT 4wt rig and everyone of them got along with it just fine. Some go on to more expensive and ‘better’ rigs once they sort out their personal style.

Some go right back to a CT for tight water, because they’re good rods for creeking.

I agree with others about a fiberglass rig as a primary, I’ve owned several, want to like them and do under specific conditions.....but I find them lacking in versatility. Something you’ll appreciate sorting out your style.

Good luck choosing and don’t fret, choosing a fly rod is a great first world problem to have :- )

 

[irideaduck]

After spending four hours in a one-on-one casting class this past June with a FFF Certified Master Instructor I wouldn't purchase another rod based upon anyone elses review or recommendation. What I would do is go and cast a rod that I'm interested in with an appropriate fly line for that rod.

I've had a love-hate relationship with my Sage Fli 5wt rod which I'm running a Sage 5wt line on, come to find out that line doesn't load that rod well and with some help and testing we found a different line that works better with it. I also found out that the way that I apply power ... the Sage Fli rod is slightly too fast for me. Up on the Yellowstone River two weeks ago the guide handed me his Sage X rod, I found it too stiff/fast for me and hard to load. I prefer casting the guides Orvis Helios 2 5wt, which loads effortless for me and I can cast it for three/four straight long days without tiring my arm.

What I'm trying to say is go cast the rod before buying. Heck, even pay full price for it, as purchasing a rod that doesn't work based upon someone else's recommendation is just a long and expensive path to finding that rod that actually resonates with you.

 

[gpwhitejr]

Ideally casting before you buy is great, but how feasible is that for most people? If you don't have a fly shop nearby and have to resort to the internet (even eBay and craigslist) you probably won't be able to do do that. Sadly, I have never cast a rod before buying. Fortunately I find something to like in all the rods I have accumulated.

 

[proheli]

I'm in Tampa and you can fly just about anywhere in the south and rent a car for $100 a day. It sounds like a fun day to fly into Atanta and FishHawk or what ever you big store is and go cast rods for a Saturday. Or just buy it on the Internet. It happes all sorts of ways, everyone is doing what is best for their situation.

 

[Mlatimer]

Update time. So I made a trip to nashville for family plans and got to stop at fly south since. WOW am I thoroughly impressed! The staff was friendly and very helpful, going out of their way to help me find what I needed. After talking for a few minutes we looked at some of the glass rods in my price range I wanted feel a butterstick 2 4wt 7’6” and they recommended an echo river glass 5wt 8’6”. Before I could even ask to cast them they offered to take me out back with some test lines. So I got both out to test side by side. After casting both and getting a good feel I found I really enjoy the feel of glass. Between the two rods I personally prefer the echo glass rod. Now I did keep in mind the difference in rod weight and length, and the staff pointed out the butterstick especially feels different in other weights. The echo though just felt much more responsive and natural to cast. The butterstick felt kind of like swinging a dead stick. I would still like to cast a 5wt 8’ butterstick to compare and see how much of a difference it makes. The only reason I didn’t is because they didn’t have one, but they did say they will be replenishing their stock soon. They actually recommended I wait to buy until then. We talked reels and lines for a bit but by then my woman was giving me the look and pointing to the clock. It was time to go! Over all a great experience and I learned a lot from the excellent staff. I will definitely be going back when they get replenished stock to see what’s what. If nothing else they definitely sold me on the echo rod. Who else likes the echo rods?

 

[dillon]

I do not own an Echo, but have examined and cast them in graphite. I would not hesitate to purchase one. They are designed by one of the best and can be acquired at a very reasonable price point.

 

[photoguy]

I learned something about rods over the last few weeks that I thought of when I read the OP's post.

I was with my buddy and son on a guided day of fishing. The guide had informed us ahead of time that we could use our own rods or the ones that he'd brought. I really like my rod (probably more because I'm *used* to it more than any technical qualities) and fished with it for most of the day. My buddy and son chose to use the guide's rods. One of the guide's rods that my buddy was using was an often touted, expensive one that I regularly read great reviews about. Toward the end of the day I asked my buddy if I could try it and truthfully I'd anticipated the experience because it's such highly respected (and expensive) rod. Well, I had the opportunity to spend a half- hour with it and really didn't get along with it at all....in fact I didn't like it at all. Where my rod is slow, this one was fast. Where I can feel the line loading, this one felt dull and stiff to me. At the very same time, the guide who was really excited about his rod asked if he could try mine. Almost simultaneously while we were casting we looked at each other with a look of -'um...here ya go, you can take this back- yuck!'.

Based on reviews, comments, advertising etc. I could easily have found myself dropping a lot of coin on one of these, in fact, I'd considered owning one. Maybe over time I would have grown to love it, I don't know...probably not. My style of casting has adapted to the rods I own and they're well suited to my expectations but more importantly they're fun for *me*. They do everything I want in a way that I like.

Point I'm trying to make is I don't think I'll ever buy another rod without the ability to cast it first to make sure that it fits me, regardless of any reviews or comments I might read. So, take this as a 'for what it's worth', but the lesson that I learned is to try before you buy.

 

[Unknownflyman]

Ideally casting before you buy is great, but how feasible is that for most people? If you don't have a fly shop nearby and have to resort to the internet (even eBay and craigslist) you probably won't be able to do do that. Sadly, I have never cast a rod before buying. Fortunately I find something to like in all the rods I have accumulated.

Well, you could join a local club or trout unlimited and go to expo`s and claves. Not having a fly shop is not that big deal in fact its almost better to cast others rods with lines and ask them how they like to fish it.

 

[gpwhitejr]

Well, you could join a local club or trout unlimited and go to expo`s and claves. Not having a fly shop is not that big deal in fact its almost better to cast others rods with lines and ask them how they like to fish it.

Yeah, I suppose so. I actually do belong to TU, but in general I am not much of a joiner and I like fishing alone or with my brother. Not antisocial (I don't think) but part of the attraction of fishing is getting away from the madding crowd.