Hardy Zenith wins Yellowstone Angler shootout!

[burk48237]

I know I've been bragging on these rods. The Zenith 9-5 won every performance category. I don't believe they've ever had a rod do that in one of these tests. In other words it broke the old power-speed-weight-performance-distance rule. For years every rod made was a compromise, either you had great feel in close and it fished well out to the mid ranges, but forget distance in the wind. Or it was a club in close and needed to be over lined, and it was a cannon at distance. Some were better all around then others, but none was the best at everything. These are the first rods I've ever handled that honestly don't have those limitations. Check it out for yourselves or better yet check one at a dealer or show in about three weeks when they hit the states in numbers.

Montana Fly Fishing in Montana's Paradise Valley, fly fishing tackle, bookings with Outfitters and Guides and guides

 

[fredaevans]

Although 'dated,' a darned good read. Anything you know of that's a bit more current?

Fred

 

[burk48237]

Although 'dated,' a darned good read. Anything you know of that's a bit more current?

Fred

The shootout was just put up on the web page this weekend, and almost all of the rods tested were new models for 2011.

 

[fredaevans]

The shootout was just put up on the web page this weekend, and almost all of the rods tested were new models for 2011.

Very Cool! Saw a 'dating' (where?) that suggested from about 2007'ish. In the market for a new single hander 5wt, back to the link.

 

[MoscaPescador]

Some of the staff had a chance to play with the Hardy Pro-Axis rod at Christmas Island. In terms of casting, the 10 weight was on par with most premium rods. In terms of fishing, it was a bruiser. It was able to lift 40 pound Yellowfin without breaking.

I think that Hardy is onto something with its new Sintrix technology.

MP

 

[FrankB2]

I enjoy reading these shootout thingies. It's good that more rods were included in this review, and the nymph rig test was interesting as well. While George Anderson said that the Zenith was the clear winner, the other guys had some high praise for the Z-Axis and BIIIX (and other rods). George gave the Z-Axis 18 out of 20 at 25 feet, but Justin and James gave it 20 out of 20, saying the Z-Axis is what a rod should feel like at 25 feet. Alot of people have expressed their feeling that a rod as stiff as the Z-Axis wouldn't work well in close, even if they've never cast one before.

Burk,
I'll look this up, but in case I can't find the info can you tell me where the Hardy Zenith is made? Is this going to put Hardy on the map in USA now (based on feedback you've received)? Are there other Hardy rods we should give attention to?

Problems with this Shootout:
-Anderson states that the St. Croix Imperial is made in the USA. Wrong. It's made in Mexico, and St. Croix makes that quite clear on thier website.

-Anderson states that Sage uses the finest cork, but I've seen some really awful cork on Sage Z-Axis and ZXL rods. It's sort of a hit or miss deal with the many specimens of these Sage rods I've seen. Some have fine cork, and others have been spackled with so much wood filler that it's hard to look at.

-Still using GPX line to test rods, while acknowledging (this time around) that a true 5wt would work better on some of the rods reviewed. Anderson does say that they were looking for an all-around 5wt, and I suppose he felt the GPX would toss nymph rigs better. Still.....

-Anderson states that Tom Morgan "makes less than 100 " rods each year. Tom Morgan doesn't make any rods, and I wish that people would give Gerri Carlson the credit she deserves for building these rods. Anderson says the Morgan rods are a "10+" in terms of craftmanship, so it would be nice to acknowledge the craftsman....

 

[BlueDun]

Very Cool! Saw a 'dating' (where?) that suggested from about 2007'ish. In the market for a new single hander 5wt, back to the link.

Click on the link again and BEFORE you scroll down, look to the right side of the web page - it is right there at the top of the page and says 2011 on it. (I also did not see it at first and had to scan the whole web page before I found it - at first, I thought I misread the original post about a new shootout.)

 

[Jackster]

Again George tests 5 weight rods with a 5-1/2 weight line and then expects them to perform like 5 weights in distance casts. A true 5 weight will not take lightly to being overlined at the higher levels of performance without protesting.
Just saying.

 

[FrankB2]

Hi Jackster,
At least he had high praise for the Winston this time around. I read Anderson's review again, and find myself scratching my head over what he considers a good all around 5wt. He says that good rods like the Sage ZXL weren't included because they do better in close. Regarding casting out to 70 feet with a 5wt, one of the reviewers said that you'd have a hard time setting a hook at that distance, and that it would be easier to walk 40 feet closer to the fish. I noted immediately that there is a "BUY" button under each rod in the review (except for the Scott, Orvis, T&T, and Loop). I live in Pennsylvania, and prefer an 8'6" 4wt rod for most of my fishing. How a Western rod shootout relates to my fishing situation isn't quite clear, but it does seem to simplify matters for Anderson.

 

[burk48237]

I enjoy reading these shootout thingies. It's good that more rods were included in this review, and the nymph rig test was interesting as well. While George Anderson said that the Zenith was the clear winner, the other guys had some high praise for the Z-Axis and BIIIX (and other rods). George gave the Z-Axis 18 out of 20 at 25 feet, but Justin and James gave it 20 out of 20, saying the Z-Axis is what a rod should feel like at 25 feet. Alot of people have expressed their feeling that a rod as stiff as the Z-Axis wouldn't work well in close, even if they've never cast one before.

Burk,
I'll look this up, but in case I can't find the info can you tell me where the Hardy Zenith is made? Is this going to put Hardy on the map in USA now (based on feedback you've received)? Are there other Hardy rods we should give attention to?

Problems with this Shootout:
-Anderson states that the St. Croix Imperial is made in the USA. Wrong. It's made in Mexico, and St. Croix makes that quite clear on thier website.

-Anderson states that Sage uses the finest cork, but I've seen some really awful cork on Sage Z-Axis and ZXL rods. It's sort of a hit or miss deal with the many specimens of these Sage rods I've seen. Some have fine cork, and others have been spackled with so much wood filler that it's hard to look at.

-Still using GPX line to test rods, while acknowledging (this time around) that a true 5wt would work better on some of the rods reviewed. Anderson does say that they were looking for an all-around 5wt, and I suppose he felt the GPX would toss nymph rigs better. Still.....

-Anderson states that Tom Morgan "makes less than 100 " rods each year. Tom Morgan doesn't make any rods, and I wish that people would give Gerri Carlson the credit she deserves for building these rods. Anderson says the Morgan rods are a "10+" in terms of craftmanship, so it would be nice to acknowledge the craftsman....

The Hardy rods are designed and engineered in England. They have a serious graphite rod design lab at Alnwick, which probably employs more people then than the reel building side in Alnwick. They also do a lot of graphite technology for the Aerospace industry there. The rods are built in S. Korea. The real difference at Hardy is that Howard Croston (the real deal) who is not only an excellent fisherman and exceptional caster (I don't mean just distance-I mean the technical presentation stuff) is designing the actions much like Winston when they had Druckman. Andy Mills is doing the same thing at Hardy on the SW side.

---------- Post added at 09:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------

Hi Jackster,
At least he had high praise for the Winston this time around. I read Anderson's review again, and find myself scratching my head over what he considers a good all around 5wt. He says that good rods like the Sage ZXL weren't included because they do better in close. Regarding casting out to 70 feet with a 5wt, one of the reviewers said that you'd have a hard time setting a hook at that distance, and that it would be easier to walk 40 feet closer to the fish. I noted immediately that there is a "BUY" button under each rod in the review (except for the Scott, Orvis, T&T, and Loop). I live in Pennsylvania, and prefer an 8'6" 4wt rod for most of my fishing. How a Western rod shootout relates to my fishing situation isn't quite clear, but it does seem to simplify matters for Anderson.

I think this relates to the general comments about GPX line too. The same thing would apply if you were using a Cortland Western Drifter line (1/2 size heavier).

I get what he's doing, his shop is Yellowstone Angler after all not Ausauble or Spruce Creek Angler. While we in the East look at Trout rods and think 8'-4 weights and Sulphers, in the West they look at Trout rods and think 9-5 weights and double fly indicator rigs.

But I think that's one of the keys to this test. I love my Winston WT 8 1/2 5 weight (it is after all the staff of Moses:icon_bigg) and the I revere the TMF. But I've been playing around with the 8-4 Zenith a bit this fall, and it does things that are unimaginable with those rods. Does that mean those aren't great rods for fishing the more intimate quarters of most Eastern streams? Of course not. What it does mean is the game has changed. Now a guy can buy a 9-5 and fish our small rivers, because they still maintain the feel and control at close and mid distances of great eastern trout rod, but when he gets on the Delaware and the Caney Fork or some other Eastern Tailwater he won't be under-gunned if he has to throw a big Wooly Bugger or a Hex on the Muskegon.

The key with the line thing is most of the power rods still felt under lined even with the 5 1/2 in close! The Zenith didn't, but it still could knock off the power rods at distance. For years I've always felt that many rod and line makers were making great products to impress beginners in parking lots, and most parking lots don't have trout. But now there is a rod that will go toe to toe in the parking lot and is comfortable on the Trout stream. That is a big deal.

 

[FrankB2]

Thanks Burk. I don't have any problem with products made in S. Korea. They're an ally, and the people of that country enjoy a high standard of living.

I get what Anderson is doing as well, and his Western rod shootout does translate to my fishing on the Delaware (which was particularly windy in 2010!). It's better than nothing, and I do applaud Anderson for making the effort. Looking at the other testers' comments can be just as interesting as reading Anderson's alone.

P.S. I should mention that I use GPX line for all of my non-dry fly fishing. I use SA's Mastery Trout for drys.

 

[BigCliff]

Burk, thanks for posting this and congrats on being affiliated with such a product. I didn't actually know of this thread until it was mentioned in the one I posted.

The other thing I think is notable is that the Zenith is considerably cheaper than some of the other "hot rods" in the test. Its odd to refer to a $645 rod as "cheaper", but that's alot less than $755.

Given the price difference and how this review sang its praises, I bet many choruses of "Dammit GEORGE!" have been heard from Bainbridge Island and Twin Bridges.

 

[FrankB2]

Given the price difference and how this review sang its praises, I bet many choruses of "Dammit GEORGE!" have been heard from Bainbridge Island and Twin Bridges.

Hi Cliff,
Read James Anderson's assessment of the Winston Passport, and you might think the folks at Winston will be delighted: Counter Points

 

[crittergetter]

I feel very "Connected" with my Greys Streamflex 10', somewhat my Helios 10' and most Scott's I have ever tried in the 9' range.

By connected the Greys rod will transmit subtle things through the rod to my hand and during a fight down to my elbow. Things like a AB or BB hitting a rock while nymphing or slack on the line moving the tip of the rod up 2 inches in a heavier weighted high stick moment. Nymph fisher know it as the "6 SENSE" but it is really just subtle things..​

Anyway.. The question:

Casting is great and I am glad to see the scores on some of my favorite rod companies.

How is the Fishing? Will this new technology transmint subtle info to the rod and into your hand?

Hook setting is another thing. I loved the Winston BIIX and can't believe I don't own it. But my hook set with the rod sucked I snag hooked about 75% of my fish while nymphing with the rod. So I sold it.

So... Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I honestly am a fan of Greys (which is part of Hardy) and am thinking hard about selling my Helios because I am fearfull of breaking the rod on real fish. If I could get a stronger 10' rod that will accept not being Babied I am game.

 

[Jackster]

Until someone comes up with aa true blind test of rods, I'll take tests like this lightly. I do like how they tell you some actuals like rod weight and component make up but for the testing, everyone has different needs and desires in a rod and everyone is capable of making those little adjustments in their casting stroke that helps make rods work better for them.

Years ago when 'steel was real' and the main material used in pro road bikes, a magazine did blinds tests of the tubing that made up the frames. Many were convinced that Reynolds tubing was better that Columbus that was better than... you get the idea.
The mag sent tube sets to a frame builder and had him build up identical frames with the different tube sets. When completed the frames were judges by a number painted on the frames. There was no indication whatsoever of which frame carried which tubing.
That, my friend, is a true test where bias does not and cannot come into play. We need tests like this instead of these brand name tests.
I know a mag did a rod test like this but covering the name on the blank counted for nothing. At the time a Loomis GLX reel seat stuck out like a sore thumb. It didn't take a genius to tell which rod was being cast.

 

[FrankB2]

Well, James Anderson said in his counter point that he thought the BIIIX and Passport were built on the same mandrel. Reading the counter points was just as valuable to me as George Anderson's opinion.

 

[BigCliff]

Hi Cliff,
Read James Anderson's assessment of the Winston Passport, and you might think the folks at Winston will be delighted: Counter Points

I did and while its helpful, they'd probably much prefer the praise of the BIIIx.

The buyer of a BIIIx is probably somewhat likely to also consider the Hardy Zenith, and vice versa. Such high praise of a rod that's $110 cheaper doesn't help Winston.

The Passport buyer is likely to also look at TFO's BVK, and Winston is bound to appreciate any leg this gives them up on the other budget rods.

But if this kills their sales of the BIIIx but sends the Passport's (likely produced at a chinese factory that's also producing many other manufacturer's rods and can't respond to demand as nimbly) numbers through the roof, its gonna cause Winston some stress. I'm sure some of those in charge at Winston are quite concerned about them becoming "another TFO/Echo/etc".

I actually think that maybe doing what Ross did and establishing a "Winston Global" brand to semi-separate the cheap stuff might be wise. Then again, Ross is now 3M, so...

 

[billyspey]

i have read all of this , as far as my personal test and own both 590-4 z axis and the loomis nrx 9 ' 5 wt. the nrx is far better casting and fishing rod haven't had any problems cast 25 ft out to 70 ft with drys or double nymph rigs. if a better casting or fishing rod exist i want to cast it. but have bought many rods that cast ok but sucked at fishing. my favorite was the 490-4 xp but some sucker stole it. never tryed overlining a full line weight as mr Andersons says with xp's it fished great with sa 4 gpx. take 10 rods with 10 casters and get 10 different opinions. my 2 cents.

 

[burk48237]

I did and while its helpful, they'd probably much prefer the praise of the BIIIx.

The buyer of a BIIIx is probably somewhat likely to also consider the Hardy Zenith, and vice versa. Such high praise of a rod that's $110 cheaper doesn't help Winston.

The Passport buyer is likely to also look at TFO's BVK, and Winston is bound to appreciate any leg this gives them up on the other budget rods.

But if this kills their sales of the BIIIx but sends the Passport's (likely produced at a chinese factory that's also producing many other manufacturer's rods and can't respond to demand as nimbly) numbers through the roof, its gonna cause Winston some stress. I'm sure some of those in charge at Winston are quite concerned about them becoming "another TFO/Echo/etc".

I actually think that maybe doing what Ross did and establishing a "Winston Global" brand to semi-separate the cheap stuff might be wise. Then again, Ross is now 3M, so...

In all sincerity, I suspect Passports are far more profitable for Winston. Winston needs to be a player in the high end to succeed, but they need to sell imports to be viable.

So... Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I honestly am a fan of Greys (which is part of Hardy) and am thinking hard about selling my Helios because I am fearfull of breaking the rod on real fish. If I could get a stronger 10' rod that will accept not being Babied I am game.

I really wish they would have tested the Streamflex verse the GRXI. The Streamflex rods all have great actions. And cosmetically they would compare with the REAL high end stuff. This years Streamflex is IMO one of the sharpest rods on the market with great quality components.

 

[db cooper]

I have an honest 2 or 3 hours trigger time behind a zenith. Its a nice rod but lets not pretend they changed the game. Everyone is using the nano silica technoligy. Is it strong? Who knows...i dont break fly rods. Would i buy one? No way...not going to pay $700 for a far east import. It competes with the high end Sage's and St. Croix's i have cast with but im not going to endlessly drone on about the talking points from their add campaign. Its a Korean fly rod thats pretty good. Thats the end of it.

As for the review...fly rod reviews are like any review...worthless.

After reading this...months later (11/9) i really come off as a crank. Must have been in a bad mood! I did in fact end up buying one of these rods. Once i got one on the water it spoke to me!