Proper Fly Rod balance

[dave5977]

The Up or Down reel seat question triggered another question I have about my fly rods balance. I have a 9' #6w with an up reel seat. It has a #6w double taper line, I find that the balance point is about an inch or two in front of the cork grip with the reel seated. I have always thought that the balance should be in the grip somewhere. In your opinion, does it matter? or could it improve my cast if the balance was in the grip?

 

[MoscaPescador]

If you are comfortable casting that rig all day, I would not worry about the balance.

MP

 

[jpbfly]

Totally agree with Dennis...don't know where the balance point is...I just try a rod with different reels and take the one I feel comfortable withonce I added a little peace of lead on the reel seat...

 

[BigCliff]

If you are comfortable casting that rig all day, I would not worry about the balance.

MP

MP is right, but what you've described makes me think your reel is too light for that rod, IMO.

One variable is whether you're talking about just mounting the reel on the rod, or if the rod is strung and the fly on the keeper or on a guide after the leader's wrapped around the reel.

I prefer a rod to balance where my index finger sits in a normal grip position while the rod is strung as described above. That means I often pick reels that are larger/heavier than what is viewed as ideal for a given rod. Though that increases the total weight of the rig, balance point is more important to me.


All that said, there's about a dozen things that will do more to improve your casting than miniscule improvement in your rod's balance point.

 

[dave5977]

Wow, I hope you forgive me for being nit picky. But this sort of thing is why fly fishing interests me. I found an article about balance after reading your replies and thought maybe this guy is right… With my rod balanced forward of the grip, I have a light reel. And I feel the same things he describes. I paraphrased here a little to shorten his points. As my wife would say “ What Y’all think?”

Match a Fly Rod and Fly Reel - A Question of Balance

A Question of Balance By Joseph D. Cornwall
“The lightweight reel made the rod tip feel heavy no matter which line I used.* The actual, physical balance point of the rod was several inches in front of the grip before I even strung line through the guides!* Poor weight distribution had put undue pressure on my wrist and caused my timing to be off.* In an attempt to force the rod to behave I used more “arm” and less body English which resulted in a further loss of power and control.* Bad balance made casting the line a chore and limited my best distance to something under 60 feet.
With your fly rod, reel and strung line, for best feel and performance, should achieve fulcrum balance at about the point where the index finger of your casting hand grips the cork.
See if the rod will balance, teeter-totter like, on your finger at the point where you feel a comfortable grip. If the tip falls down, you need to add a more weight to the reel. If the tip cocks up, you need to remove weight from the reel.”

 

[ghostdncr]

Here's a picture from an in-process review of a LaCrosse rod I've got going in another thread. In this picture it balances a bit farther down the cork than I prefer, but you guys probably already noticed the line isn't strung through the guides. It's a 7' 2-wt and I'm hoping it will balance between my middle and forefinger with the line in the guides.

 

[mojo]

Joe Cornwall knows his stuff. That's for sure.
Swing weight is want you're looking for. Like a custom golf club.
I'm going to agree with the rest that your reel is a little light for the rod. Try taping some lead strips to the threaded end of the seat, or some nickels to help balance it out.

Ghostdancer, I wouldn't worry about the balance point on your setup, seeing that it's just a 2w rod. Anywhere on the grip would be good.

 

[goldentrout]

If weight is needed, a nice young lady on this forum had a good suggestion awhile back.
She suggests that one puts lead core underneath the backing on the reel.
Sounds easy if I determine the amount of weight needed with the reel mounted and line strung and weight added. Weigh the amount I added and put that much lead core on the reel.
I have not tried it yet, but I plan to on an outfit I have that balances about an inch in front of the cork.

In retrospect, I wish I had purchased the 4pc rod instead of the 5pc because of the few tenths of an ounce difference in weight.

Besides any casting issues, it's a pain to carry around a rod that doesn't balance at the grip and is constantly nose diving to the ground. On the one I have the issue with, it balances right at the hook keeper.....OUCH!!

 

[dave5977]

Mojo brings up a phase that I'm not sure what it means --> Swing Weight <---. Is this what you feel when the line loads the rod in the forward cast and back casts? If that's true, then when you double haul, you're feeling more swing weight because you're loading the rod more???

 

[ghostdncr]

She suggests that one puts lead core underneath the backing on the reel.

Besides any casting issues, it's a pain to carry around a rod that doesn't balance at the grip and is constantly nose diving to the ground.

I've used the lead wire trick a couple of times and it works beautifully. I placed a wrap of tape over the lead before installing the backing, just to keep the two from mixing.

In case this trick isn't common knowledge, I always carry my rods backward and held loosely. With the tip trailing behind me, damage from ground contact will likely be limited to scuffing the tip-top. Carried forward, contact can snap the rod.

 

[FrankB2]

I have a 9' 5wt that felt heavy after casting for a while with a really light reel. One day I slapped on a heavier reel (that's what I had with me), and the rod suddenly felt better! I was one of those who believed that a light rod and reel would balance each other nicely (this is not a heavy rod), but I feel differently now.

 

[mojo]

Mojo brings up a phase that I'm not sure what it means --> Swing Weight <---. Is this what you feel when the line loads the rod in the forward cast and back casts? If that's true, then when you double haul, you're feeling more swing weight because you're loading the rod more???

I'll let the professional writer do his thing.
Measuring Swingweight
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/swingweight.pdf

 

[304rodco]

I've always thought the whole balance thing was pointless. Unless you can find the balance point with 30' of line in the air the exercise is well, pointless. Actually, it seems to me if the rod is tip heavy then it will generate more momentum and and reduce casting effort.

 

[mojo]

I've always thought the whole balance thing was pointless. Unless you can find the balance point with 30' of line in the air the exercise is well, pointless. Actually, it seems to me if the rod is tip heavy then it will generate more momentum and and reduce casting effort.

I would think that's the case on the forward cast when you shoot the line. But, you still have a back cast and after a while it will start to wear on your arm and wrist. The right reel (weight wise) will help balance out a tip heavy rod and be less tiresome to your upper body throught the day. Counter balance.
As far as the balance point with 30' of line out, what's the point there?

BTW, I like your website. And being from the western U.S., what's the 304 stand for? And where exactly is BFE, WV where your friend Phil lives:thumbsupI never realized there was that many places in the country that were named the same)

 

[304rodco]

The point of the 30' of line is that most people balance the rod without line, which will only represent what it feels like carrying it to the stream. The force of 30' of line in the air kills any sense of balance between the rod and reel.

Thanks for the compliments. 304 was the WV area code until last year, when we got a second one. And yes there are BFEs everywhere, but WV tends to have more than most places.

 

[mojo]

Does casting the line really make balancing your outfit moot?
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Once you start to cast, the line becomes part of the equation. That's helping by loading the rod.
The line in itself doesn't weigh that much, but with a tip heavy rod, the inertia of the line, (no matter if you have 10', 30' or 60' out) is going to increase the tip heavyness even more, and wear on you upper body parts. You back cast will be affected, your forward cast will be affected. Your arm and wrist will start to fatigue because you're fighting to stop and start each cast. You're pushing your fly rod and having to muscle it. With a balanced outfit, you're not fighting all that but you're letting your outfit do what it was designed to do.
Hopefully I'm getting across what's in my mind.
Anyway, you really have some good prices on your rods. And your workmanship looks impecable. I'm going to have to try to talk Joni into seriously looking at some of your blanks (after we build what we have now).

 

[Joni]

I know I passed on several older bamboo rods because they are tip heavy. Adding a heavier reel is certainly an option and one I took on my 12' spey, but on a rod I will be casting many times, I prefer the weight more to the butt or a dead center of the cork.
Like a metronome.

For me, if the rod tip is heavy, it feels more like trying to cast line with allot of split shot on it....it is hard to stop on the back cast, thus using more strength. It is going to want to keep going.

Get a good center of gravity to begin with is a great starting point that is enhanced with more line at the tip. If you already have a tip heavy rod, the more line out would accent this, wouldn't it? Making it even more tiresome to lift off the water to recast?

 

[dave5977]

I have always felt that having a balanced set up would help form the line loop on the forward and backcast equally. Stopping the inertia on a balanced rod is something that I didn't thik of. But it makes sense to me. I'm still trying to understand what "swing weight" is. Thanks Mojo for the web link with more info. :thumbsup:

 

[FrankB2]

I'm in agreement with Mojo on this. Like I said, I have a fast action 9' 5wt, and it really strained a chronic injury in my right shoulder. After putting a heavy reel on, it was suddenly transformed into a shoulder friendly rod.

I agree with Mojo about the bamboo. Looks sweet!

 

[304rodco]

I wasn't really talking about the weight of the line, but the force of the cast. The force of 30' of line in the air is going to pull at the tip of the rod, not at the grip. The rod will then flex however much it is going to (add the inertia of the rod weight in there too). The less flex in the tip the more you are going to feel it in the grip. At least that is how it works in my mind.

Of course, like you said, if there is a lot of flex then that is going to take more force to change directions. There is a whole lot of dynamics going on.

---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Thanks for the compliments