hawkeyeflyfisher
Well-known member
Looking to put together a list of things I need to start tying. Any recommendations?
Tools for a new tyer?
- Thread starter hawkeyeflyfisher
- Start date
wolfglen
Well-known member
If you want to keep it cheap or economical, all you really need is a decent vise, some decent scissors, a single edged razor blade and a good pair of hackle pliers.
There are lots of crutches, whip finish tools, fur spinners, bobbins, and all sort of Rube Goldberg stuff, but the ones I mentioned are all you really need.
Bobbins? that's debatable, I started with a bobbin and one of the masters who took me under his wing got me away from it. They have their place, but try starting without one for kicks.
Jack
There are lots of crutches, whip finish tools, fur spinners, bobbins, and all sort of Rube Goldberg stuff, but the ones I mentioned are all you really need.
Bobbins? that's debatable, I started with a bobbin and one of the masters who took me under his wing got me away from it. They have their place, but try starting without one for kicks.
Jack
bigjim5589
Well-known member
In principle I agree with what Jack posted, except the bobbin & hackle pliers part. IMO, hackle pliers are only necessary if you only plan on tying small flies, like dry flies.
I started tying without a bobbin & tied that way for a few years. It certainly can be done. However, you better have smooth hands. In my later years I worked in several jobs, like as a welder & a heavy equipment mechanic that made my hands rough, so tying with a bobbin was the only way I could tie.
Get the hackle pliers & the bobbin to go with the vise & scissors, that way you have them when you need them. Razor blades, (utility knife) can be obtained at most any hardware store, or single edge at most grocery stores so that should not be an issue. Get a good pair of scissors & be sure the finger loops are big enough to be comfortable for you to use. I started with cuticle scissors & they cut fine, but were literally a pain to use. Get a good bobbin too, one with ceramic inserts. Those without the ceramic wear out rather quickly & can make tying very frustrating. You'll save some cost in the long run.
The vise will be your highest cost tool. There are many good ones, and some not so good. Buy what you can afford & the best you can afford, but be sure what you buy holds the range of hooks you intend to use most. I tie mostly bass or saltwater flies so my vise has to hold the bigger size hooks, 1/0 to 3/0 that I tie on most. Not all will do that very well. Most will hold smaller hooks just fine.
Any other tools are not necessary, but can make tying a bit easier for some folks.
There are several very good brands. I use Dr Slick scissors & Griffin bobbins.
I use a Regal vise & all of these brands have been very good for the tying I do. But, like anything else you have to pick what will work best for you & what you can afford so look around before you jump in.
Keep asking questions too! The only dumb question is the one not asked!
I started tying without a bobbin & tied that way for a few years. It certainly can be done. However, you better have smooth hands. In my later years I worked in several jobs, like as a welder & a heavy equipment mechanic that made my hands rough, so tying with a bobbin was the only way I could tie.
Get the hackle pliers & the bobbin to go with the vise & scissors, that way you have them when you need them. Razor blades, (utility knife) can be obtained at most any hardware store, or single edge at most grocery stores so that should not be an issue. Get a good pair of scissors & be sure the finger loops are big enough to be comfortable for you to use. I started with cuticle scissors & they cut fine, but were literally a pain to use. Get a good bobbin too, one with ceramic inserts. Those without the ceramic wear out rather quickly & can make tying very frustrating. You'll save some cost in the long run.
The vise will be your highest cost tool. There are many good ones, and some not so good. Buy what you can afford & the best you can afford, but be sure what you buy holds the range of hooks you intend to use most. I tie mostly bass or saltwater flies so my vise has to hold the bigger size hooks, 1/0 to 3/0 that I tie on most. Not all will do that very well. Most will hold smaller hooks just fine.
Any other tools are not necessary, but can make tying a bit easier for some folks.
There are several very good brands. I use Dr Slick scissors & Griffin bobbins.
I use a Regal vise & all of these brands have been very good for the tying I do. But, like anything else you have to pick what will work best for you & what you can afford so look around before you jump in.
Keep asking questions too! The only dumb question is the one not asked!
hawkeyeflyfisher
Well-known member
Was planning to get a Peak rotary vise. Honestly I fish for everything except saltwater stuff so I need to be able to use a wide variety of hook sizes.
I work at Sportsmans Warehouse and get a discount on the Peak which is why I was considering that one, plus I dont want to have to spend hundreds on a Regal or Renzetti haha
I work at Sportsmans Warehouse and get a discount on the Peak which is why I was considering that one, plus I dont want to have to spend hundreds on a Regal or Renzetti haha
L
Liphookedau
Guest
As suggested you need a Good Vyce however you don't need a loan to buy it as there are some good well priced ones around.
As you said you will be Tying a variety of sized Flies so I'd advise to get some Small hackle Pliers as over the years I've bought heaps of different types of which I have about 15 pairs & have found The handiest for Tying Trout as well as Salmon Flies to be The ones about 2" long which are light,don't get in the way & don't break The Small Hackles.
Brian.
As you said you will be Tying a variety of sized Flies so I'd advise to get some Small hackle Pliers as over the years I've bought heaps of different types of which I have about 15 pairs & have found The handiest for Tying Trout as well as Salmon Flies to be The ones about 2" long which are light,don't get in the way & don't break The Small Hackles.
Brian.
bigjim5589
Well-known member
I've never used a Peak, but they appear to be a good vise. I started with no vise as I said. The first one I bought was a Thompson "A" vise. Nothing wrong with it, but it's limited on holding power with larger hooks. Still, I tied a lot of flies on it & it was certainly easier to tie with it than without a vise. Later I fabricated a vise from an old pair of vise grip pliers for bigger hooks. I still have it & still use it, but more so for tying larger size jigs than flies. I still have the "A" vise too, but don't use it. I have used it to teach tying classes however.
I bought the Regal, the standard model many years ago when I was starting to tie commercially. That was even before they had saltwater jaws available. I'm happy with it, but it is a very costly vise now and the standard version won't hold hooks larger than a 2/0 or 3/0, depending of course on the wire diameter of the hook. I would buy another, but since I only tie as a hobby again, don't really need it.
For starting out, and since you have a way to get a good vise, you'll likely do well with the Peak.
Please keep us informed as you progress & if there is anything we can help with just ask! There's plenty of knowledge here so take advantage of it! :biggrin:
I bought the Regal, the standard model many years ago when I was starting to tie commercially. That was even before they had saltwater jaws available. I'm happy with it, but it is a very costly vise now and the standard version won't hold hooks larger than a 2/0 or 3/0, depending of course on the wire diameter of the hook. I would buy another, but since I only tie as a hobby again, don't really need it.
For starting out, and since you have a way to get a good vise, you'll likely do well with the Peak.
Please keep us informed as you progress & if there is anything we can help with just ask! There's plenty of knowledge here so take advantage of it! :biggrin:
bluewater
Well-known member
The Peak is a popular vice and should serve you. When I started, I got a vice, 2 bobbins, 2 pair of sharp scissors (one for wire, the other for all the rest), hackle pliers, and a whip finisher.
I got the bobbins because occasionally you have to leave the thread dangling and it will unwrap itself in a heartbeat. Bobbins can be a pain since they twist the thread, but they save me other aggravations. Your mileage may vary. I got the hackle pliers for the same reason - hackle will unwrap itself on me if it has a chance, but I wrap hackle by hand and clamp it with the pliers only when necessary.
I never used the whip finisher. I can do half hitches faster, easier and better than I can with the whip finisher.
None of the other paraphernalia seemed necessary.
bigjim5589
Well-known member
There have some discussions about whip finishers in the past. I have one, but never got the hang of using it, so I learned to whip finish with just my fingers.
I don't use half hitches a lot, but a very cheap tool can be made from the plastic barrel of a Bic or similar ink pen.
I have a couple of sets of "half hitch" tools, but again don't even use them since I tend to whip finish every fly.
Bluewater has also mentioned having a pair of scissors for wire. IMO, that will work, but a pair of wire cutters is a better choice. There are inexpensive cutters that can be obtained that will work well for everything but the heaviest steel wire. I also make lures, so have a couple of pairs of cutters in different sizes. I use a small pair for soft wire & tying. I think I paid less than $5 for them.
Scissors will work for copper, lead or the non-lead wires used, but they will dull rather quickly since they're not intended for these materials.
ia_trouter
Senior Member
Hawkeye
As you see there is debate whether you need a bobbin, hackle pliers etc. Most of these tools cost under $5 so I recommend you pick them up and decide for yourself. One size fits all advice doesn't apply here IMO. My fingers are usually calloused and very nicked up and catch the thread fibers. It's frustrating so I learned to use the tools. Buy decent scissors, and something to cut wire. I use Dr Slick, but there are other comparable and affordable brands. Do a search here for vise threads and you'll find a wealth of excellent info.
As you see there is debate whether you need a bobbin, hackle pliers etc. Most of these tools cost under $5 so I recommend you pick them up and decide for yourself. One size fits all advice doesn't apply here IMO. My fingers are usually calloused and very nicked up and catch the thread fibers. It's frustrating so I learned to use the tools. Buy decent scissors, and something to cut wire. I use Dr Slick, but there are other comparable and affordable brands. Do a search here for vise threads and you'll find a wealth of excellent info.
wolfglen
Well-known member
For the record, I did include hackle pliers as a necessary tool. You can also make one if you want with a pair of alligator clips and use some epoxy to attack a couple of little pads at the tip.
As for bobbin or not, that's a personal thing. However I would advise everyone to at least try to learn at some point without it as there are some applications in which a bobbin will be a hinderance and slow you down. There are some times I do use a bobbin, when tying flies on extremely long shanked hooks.
It won't hurt a person a bit to be able to do it both way, just like being able to cast with both hands.
A bit sore this morning for that first day of push poling in years, but okay.
As for bobbin or not, that's a personal thing. However I would advise everyone to at least try to learn at some point without it as there are some applications in which a bobbin will be a hinderance and slow you down. There are some times I do use a bobbin, when tying flies on extremely long shanked hooks.
It won't hurt a person a bit to be able to do it both way, just like being able to cast with both hands.
A bit sore this morning for that first day of push poling in years, but okay.
ia_trouter
Senior Member
My comment wasn't really directed at your post in particular Jack. I have just noticed that lately most of the noobie tyer threads result in most every tool except scissors regarded as unnecessary at some point during the discussion. It may very well be true, but probably causes more confusion than help for a new tyer. I do enjoy better tools than starter kits come with, but even the cheap tools are serviceable enough to give you an idea how to proceed after you tie for a month. Perhaps with the exception of a 10 dollar vise. I ditched the cheap one very quick as I didn't like it with small hooks.
citationsquirrel
Well-known member
Hi Hawkeye! From one newbie to another, Hook and Hackle has a nice set of beginner tools in their catalog (you can download a copy online). The one I'm interested in is a 9-piece set that will run me about $35 (plus H&H offers 10% off on your first order of the year plus free shipping on orders over $35). The 9-piece kit includes: hair stacker, whip finisher, hackle pliers, bobbin, bobbin threader, scissors, half hitch tool, bodkin, and spin loop tool.
My plan is to start tying in the fall. I have to be careful how much I spend on my new "hobby" at one time, as wifey might start getting concerned.
My plan is to start tying in the fall. I have to be careful how much I spend on my new "hobby" at one time, as wifey might start getting concerned.
wolfglen
Well-known member
I realized thta.
silver creek
Well-known member
I think a bobbin is a necessary tool since you would otherwise have to half hitch at each step to keep the tying tread from loosening. The weight of the hanging bobbin keeps thread under tension.
Most fly tiers will also eventually buy a Matarelli type of whip finisher. I can hand whip finish but I can do it faster and better with a tool. Make sure it is a Matarelli type whip finisher rather than the Thompson type of whip finisher.
If you are going to tie comparaduns, sparkle duns, elk hair caddis, etc, buy a hair stacker.
Tools allow you to both to tie faster and better flies. I don't skimp on tools since most tools (other than scissors) rarely ever wear out.
Other tools I would recommend include a bodkin, hackle pliers, dubbing loop spinner. The reason is for buying a tool like a dubbing loop spinner that no one has recommended is that you will eventually find yourself wanting to tie a fly that has a step using a dubbing loop. The convenience of having that tool in your tying kit rather than having to buy it later will save you time and money.
Most fly tiers will also eventually buy a Matarelli type of whip finisher. I can hand whip finish but I can do it faster and better with a tool. Make sure it is a Matarelli type whip finisher rather than the Thompson type of whip finisher.
If you are going to tie comparaduns, sparkle duns, elk hair caddis, etc, buy a hair stacker.
Tools allow you to both to tie faster and better flies. I don't skimp on tools since most tools (other than scissors) rarely ever wear out.
Other tools I would recommend include a bodkin, hackle pliers, dubbing loop spinner. The reason is for buying a tool like a dubbing loop spinner that no one has recommended is that you will eventually find yourself wanting to tie a fly that has a step using a dubbing loop. The convenience of having that tool in your tying kit rather than having to buy it later will save you time and money.
nevadanstig
Well-known member
I started with a basic troutsmen kit I got from sportsman's and really like it. Came with vise, bobbin, scissors, threader, hackle pliers, and a bunch of hooks, materials, bead heads, etc. It was only 39.99 too. Just a few more materials, hooks, and beads and I had everything I needed for what I tie. I think I spent around $60 total and have enough stuff to probably tie four to five hundred flies. I am thinking of getting a nicer vise down the road, but you'll be limited by your skills more than the equipment in a starter kit. A little imagination and some patience and you can tie some darn good flies with a basic starter kit.
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bluewater
Well-known member
Glad you're okay.
Good tip on the alligator clips. I'd never seen hackle pliers before and considering how I use them - or don't use them - I'd have been just as well off with clips. I won't forget alligator clips. Thanks!
I don't like having to stop and let the twists out of the thread on some patterns, and not using a bobbin would surely help, but I'm curious - and simply curious - about what you do with the thread when you need both hands to do something else? How do you hold tension on the thread?
Good tip on the alligator clips. I'd never seen hackle pliers before and considering how I use them - or don't use them - I'd have been just as well off with clips. I won't forget alligator clips. Thanks!
I don't like having to stop and let the twists out of the thread on some patterns, and not using a bobbin would surely help, but I'm curious - and simply curious - about what you do with the thread when you need both hands to do something else? How do you hold tension on the thread?
ts47
Well-known member
Here's my two cents on the OP's question.
Starting out...
Vice: You can go cheap and do just fine. Vices start for as little as $20. Many of us started that way. If you know you're going to get into it and don't mind forking out the coin for a Peak rotary vice, you will be starting with something special that could last the rest of your life.
Bobbin: You NEED a good one. Good=something with ceramic inserts or a ceramic tube. The beginner bobbins have metal tubes with nothing to protect the thread. This leads to thread breaking in the middle of tying the fly and much frustration.
Scissors: I'm partial to Dr Slick. There are others. You can start with one pair of good all purpose scissors about 4" in length.
This is the extent of the "good" stuff. The balance of the tools can be cheaper or off brand tools.
Bobbin threader (if you get a bobbin with inserts, this will make your life much easier), bodkin, whip finisher (likely matarelli style).
You can stop here. There are other tools you will want as time goes on. They can be purchased one at a time or as the need arises.
Additional tools for later include...
Hackle pliers. I like the Griffin rotating hackle pliers. You may like something else better.
Hair stacker that won't create so much static electricity when stacking deer hair. Brass is good. I believe other companies may have other options that might be as good as brass. The other option is to run a dryer sheet through the center of it to remove static electricity.
Dubbing spinner
Self-closing Bead tweezers that have an indent to hold the bead in place.
A smaller pair of good scissors dedicated to only doing fine work with materials like thread that won't dull the blades.
There are some excellent threads in the General Fly Tying section, including a list of materials for the beginning tier. Most of us shy away from "kits" for beginning tiers and opt to purchase the tools and supplies that will do the job we want them to do. General Fly Tying Discussions - The North American Fly Fishing Forum
Welcome to the club!!
Starting out...
Vice: You can go cheap and do just fine. Vices start for as little as $20. Many of us started that way. If you know you're going to get into it and don't mind forking out the coin for a Peak rotary vice, you will be starting with something special that could last the rest of your life.
Bobbin: You NEED a good one. Good=something with ceramic inserts or a ceramic tube. The beginner bobbins have metal tubes with nothing to protect the thread. This leads to thread breaking in the middle of tying the fly and much frustration.
Scissors: I'm partial to Dr Slick. There are others. You can start with one pair of good all purpose scissors about 4" in length.
This is the extent of the "good" stuff. The balance of the tools can be cheaper or off brand tools.
Bobbin threader (if you get a bobbin with inserts, this will make your life much easier), bodkin, whip finisher (likely matarelli style).
You can stop here. There are other tools you will want as time goes on. They can be purchased one at a time or as the need arises.
Additional tools for later include...
Hackle pliers. I like the Griffin rotating hackle pliers. You may like something else better.
Hair stacker that won't create so much static electricity when stacking deer hair. Brass is good. I believe other companies may have other options that might be as good as brass. The other option is to run a dryer sheet through the center of it to remove static electricity.
Dubbing spinner
Self-closing Bead tweezers that have an indent to hold the bead in place.
A smaller pair of good scissors dedicated to only doing fine work with materials like thread that won't dull the blades.
There are some excellent threads in the General Fly Tying section, including a list of materials for the beginning tier. Most of us shy away from "kits" for beginning tiers and opt to purchase the tools and supplies that will do the job we want them to do. General Fly Tying Discussions - The North American Fly Fishing Forum
Welcome to the club!!
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spm
Well-known member
This question comes up occasionally. I started with a complete kit from Bass Pro Shops. I know everyone eschews kits, but it got me started and I still use some of the tools and materials. So, if that is what it takes, go for it.
Okay, put that aside. The latest issue of Fly Tyer Magazine has an article in the Beginners Corner, written by Bill "Bugs" Logan, entitled "If it's not here, you don't need it". He discusses this exact subject and says a lot of the same things said in the above responses. Biggest expense is a vise. Good scissors are also a must. After that, as suggested here, you can make a lot of your tools. I love Wolfglens hackle pliers and may make one for myself, since I can't seem to find one that won't break the feather (Couldn't be my technique, could it?). Anyway, I like the ideas being put here, that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get started.
Good luck, but above all, have fun.
steve
Okay, put that aside. The latest issue of Fly Tyer Magazine has an article in the Beginners Corner, written by Bill "Bugs" Logan, entitled "If it's not here, you don't need it". He discusses this exact subject and says a lot of the same things said in the above responses. Biggest expense is a vise. Good scissors are also a must. After that, as suggested here, you can make a lot of your tools. I love Wolfglens hackle pliers and may make one for myself, since I can't seem to find one that won't break the feather (Couldn't be my technique, could it?). Anyway, I like the ideas being put here, that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get started.
Good luck, but above all, have fun.
steve
ts47
Well-known member
Steve makes a good point.
If you need to get started on budget, you can make good use of the tools in a kit. Some of this depends on how much tying you intend to do. For example: A less expensive pair of scissors will last much longer if you only tie occasionally. Another option is - Dr Slick makes an ECO line of scissors that are pretty darned good and only $8. For much of what we do with tools, fingers can do the same job for free. A cheap vice, as long as it firmly holds a hook, is a perfectly good place to start.
The one tool I personally would never go cheap on is the bobbin. I'm still a bit of a newbie, but not a beginner. The single most frustrating tool I've used was a cheap bobbin that kept cutting the tread. There is nothing worse than being in the middle of a fly and having your thread break! Granted, I may have been a little heavy handed with it and my form wasn't what it should have been. Still... As a beginner, you're not supposed to be good. When I trashed my first cheap bobbin and bought one with ceramic inserts, my tying became a lot more fun! For cost, they start around $7 and go up to around $17. The bobbin I own is in the $15 range.
This is just my two cents... Your mileage may very.
Like Steve said..."above all, have fun!" :thumbsup:
wolfglen
Well-known member
We simply had a little bar which came out from the post of the vise and on this were a couple of little thread clips.I think a bobbin is a necessary tool since you would otherwise have to half hitch at each step to keep the tying tread from loosening. The weight of the hanging bobbin keeps thread under tension.
Most fly tiers will also eventually buy a Matarelli type of whip finisher. I can hand whip finish but I can do it faster and better with a tool. Make sure it is a Matarelli type whip finisher rather than the Thompson type of whip finisher.
If you are going to tie comparaduns, sparkle duns, elk hair caddis, etc, buy a hair stacker.
Tools allow you to both to tie faster and better flies. I don't skimp on tools since most tools (other than scissors) rarely ever wear out.
Other tools I would recommend include a bodkin, hackle pliers, dubbing loop spinner. The reason is for buying a tool like a dubbing loop spinner that no one has recommended is that you will eventually find yourself wanting to tie a fly that has a step using a dubbing loop. The convenience of having that tool in your tying kit rather than having to buy it later will save you time and money.