What type of leader do you use?

[dean_mt]

I have used commercial tapered leaders for a long time. For better or worse, I often end up with some creation of my own design. I generally start with a 7 to 9' 4x and end up cutting it down and adding tippet when I change approaches. I just don't like carrying a bunch of leaders, seems like a pain to keep them organized, and I just don't like changing entire leader.

Long and short, I like to "customize" tapered leaders on stream. But I'm ready to buy some bulk materials and start building true knotted leaders. I've also read some posts here about furling and am also interested in this.

So please share your preferences, experience and knowledge on the subject!

Thanks!
Dean

 

[Davo]

For the most part in my own fishing I end up building my own knotted leaders. With clients and dry fly fishing I use tapered and then a combo of the tapered with tippet added until it is so cut back it needs changing. For my own personal streamer fishing I tie my own. Also do the same for my saltwater fishing. For my freshwater dry fly fishing I start with a tapered leader and add on as required.

 

[Ard]

Hi Dean,

I filled in the dot on 'Other' because I build / design my own sinking leaders for wet fly trout & salmon fishing. I will give particulars of a design that is preforming well for me on the "The End of The Line" sticky thread located in the "Fly Lines" sub forum. I'll edit the materials and construction into the opening post. This way it will not become lost in a thread and some members who fish streamers may find it useful. Good thread here,

Ard

 

[Guest1]

I make my own with ANDE mono. I know what it will break at and can make them to suit what I'm doing.

 

[milt spawn]

I use tapered for trout, when they get stubby I'll put them on a bass rig. I also use straight mono sometimes. I'll keep using it until the new nano lines are out. milt.

 

[dean_mt]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Davo - sounds kind of like the same as I do. Ard - I'll look up your formula, I haven't stumbled onto the "End of the Line" thread yet, thanks. Dan, that is why I am interested in tying my own. Milt, when mine get "stubby" is when I begrudgingly buy a new tapered and start over.

 

[caseywise]

i've been using furled leaders and floro tippets for the past couple years.


casey

 

[Rip Tide]

I've hand tied my own leaders for over 20 years

 

[Ard]

Hi Dean,

It will be at least a day till I put it up. I should provide pictures so people don't have to to imagine what I am trying to say. Like any advice I offer here this has proven to me that it works; the leader casts well, turns over well, and sinks like a stone.

The thread I refer to is in the 'Fly Lines' sub forum. When I edit the info in I will bump the thread so it appears on the board. If you miss that I'll link you to it via PM.

Ard

 

[dean_mt]

Hi Dean,

It will be at least a day till I put it up. I should provide pictures so people don't have to to imagine what I am trying to say. Like any advice I offer here this has proven to me that it works; the leader casts well, turns over well, and sinks like a stone.

The thread I refer to is in the 'Fly Lines' sub forum. When I edit the info in I will bump the thread so it appears on the board. If you miss that I'll link you to it via PM.

Ard

Thanks Ard, I found the sub forum last night, great thread. I have a question re: materials that I'll post over there, but I am wondering what the difference is between Maxim Chameleon, Clear and Ultra Green (aside from the color of course) and is it significant?

 

[Rip Tide]

I have both the Maxima Chameleon and the Clear, and except for the color, they're the same.
I've never tried the Ultra Green, but supposedly unlike the other two, it's a soft mono.
Soft mono material is more supple and important for a drag free presentation. Hard mono (the other two) is stiffer and turns over well, but should never be used as trout tippet material

 

[dean_mt]

That's what I figured but wasn't sure if there was any difference in performance between the Chameleon and Clear. So either is a good choice for the butt section, just a matter of preference on color - is that what I hear you saying Rip Tide? Thanks for the info.

I like Power Flex for tippet, I've used it for a long time and haven't had any issues.

 

[CutThroat Leaders]

Dean,

I have been building my one leaders for years. I use mostly furled leaders made out of various materials.
My Reasons, Furled leaders LAST…. They provide amazing energy transfer.

Dry Fly Fishing, Leaders made from Uni-Thread are my go to leader, in my opinion, they are un-matched by any other material for the way they present a dry.
Small Nymph Fishing: I use a 50” Thread Hi-Vis Leader. The upper Portion (18” long) of leader is brightly colored and treated to float. The lower portion sinks fast (un-treated) These work great as a strike indicator with small nymphs.
Large/Heavy Nymph Fishing, I use furled Fluorocarbon Leaders.

If you are looking to build your own Furled leaders and you have questions, PM me and I will do what I can to help you out.

Thank you,

 

[Rip Tide]

That's what I figured but wasn't sure if there was any difference in performance between the Chameleon and Clear. So either is a good choice for the butt section, just a matter of preference on color - is that what I hear you saying Rip Tide? Thanks for the info.
.

Most guys like the Chameleon, but I don't know why. Might be only because it's different.
Makes no difference to me as I always change to a soft material when I get to the business end

 

[sweetandsalt]

CutThroat, Can furled leaders be built with a taper like braided leaders? The energy transfer from line to leader is crucal regardless of leader material or design. This is easily checked by grasping the line and leader butt equal didtances - 5 or 6" - from the leader connection and bending to form an arched curve. If you get a uniform parabala you have a good match for energy transfer, a hindg of any kind indicates your presentations will sufffer. A major reason for building your own leaders using a moderatly stiff butt section is to better match this transfere from thicker tipped, more supple fly line to thinner but stiffer mono (or fuoro). Many extruded leaders provide a less than satisfactory transfer yielding a wild, curly pig-tail off the end of an otherwise nicely formed casting loop. The lack of memory and greater mass of a braided butt leader, Zap-a-Gap spliced to the tip of your line, offers an excelent dry fly presentation solution for 4 and 5 weight line outfits, perhps a furled leader does as well if it can be matched to the diameter of the tip of the line for this ideal transfere of casting energy.

 

[Walter1023]

I primarily fish dries now and use a standard tapered 3x, 9 foot leader...then immediately add a tippet ring on the end....then varying lengths of 4x thru 7x extensions. all mono except for 6x and 7x tippets (fluoro). I use pretty long leaders....I consider 13 feet to be short. I started noticing that my leaders were approaching 17-18 feet and thought maybe I'm crazy. ..but I felt better as I just started reading Harrops's book Learning from the Water and in his chapter "The Long Leader".....18 feet seems to be his standard length and he talks about sometimes going to 22 feet. The main thing is that you are able to properly cast it and deliver the fly. If you feel the length is causing an issue shorten up.

 

[dean_mt]

I primarily fish dries now and use a standard tapered 3x, 9 foot leader...then immediately add a tippet ring on the end....then varying lengths of 4x thru 7x extensions. all mono except for 6x and 7x tippets (fluoro). I use pretty long leaders....I consider 13 feet to be short. I started noticing that my leaders were approaching 17-18 feet and thought maybe I'm crazy. ..but I felt better as I just started reading Harrops's book Learning from the Water and in his chapter "The Long Leader".....18 feet seems to be his standard length and he talks about sometimes going to 22 feet. The main thing is that you are able to properly cast it and deliver the fly. If you feel the length is causing an issue shorten up.

Walter - I've been reading some about leaders too, hence this poll and thread. Leader length is dependent on a lot of factors, so to just say that 18 feet is a standard for Harrop you have to consider how and where he fishes. This is probably his leader for the Henry's where long casts, perfect presentation and long drifts are the norm. If you are making shorter casts then a much shorter leader is a lot easier to cast.

This is all about casting ability too. I personally wouldn't be able to straighten an 18' leader...or 15' for that matter. To do so you have to be casting 70' and I rarely do that. If you don't have a sufficient amount of line to load the rod with sufficient energy you cannot lay out a long leader.

I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong, you just have to take the actual fishing situation into consideration. Which is another reason I am going to start tying my own leaders.

So what kind of fishing do you do and why do feel the need for 17-18' leaders?

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

CutThroat, Can furled leaders be built with a taper like braided leaders? The energy transfer from line to leader is crucal regardless of leader material or design. This is easily checked by grasping the line and leader butt equal didtances - 5 or 6" - from the leader connection and bending to form an arched curve. If you get a uniform parabala you have a good match for energy transfer, a hindg of any kind indicates your presentations will sufffer.

I'm know you asked CutThroat, and he certainly knows a lot more about it, but furled leaders are indeed tapered. By all accounts I've heard furled are like braided, but much preferred because they don't pick up micro-float-sum, get dirty and sink.

Your other point brings up the issue of loop to loop connections. If you use a short butt section - as close to your line stiffness - nail-knotted to the line, do you use a loop to loop then for changing leaders mid-stream and or do you feel that is to much of a hinge and cut and re-nail knot a new leader?

 

[FlyBum]

I use leaders that I tie for for tight line and deep water indicator nymph fishing. Last year I started using furled leaders made by Joni for fishing dries. However, I decided to try the Cutthroat leaders for both dries and for nymphs this weekend on my clubs trip to the Truckee, CA area. I also plan on purchasing one of the Hemingway Czech Nymph furled leaders mostly to see how it is made and if I would like it for tight lining. I really like the concept, behind furled leaders and as I almost always say the possibility of saving money and time, by not having to purchase as much fluorocarbon butt material or tie my tapered leaders. For dry flies I haven't used anything that turns over flies as well and effortlessly as furled leaders.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Walter - By all accounts I've heard furled are like braided, but much preferred because they don't pick up micro-float-sum, get dirty and sink.

Your other point brings up the issue of loop to loop connections. If you use a short butt section - as close to your line stiffness - nail-knotted to the line, do you use a loop to loop then for changing leaders mid-stream and or do you feel that is to much of a hinge and cut and re-nail knot a new leader?

I have used 6' tapered braided butts from Orvis for 26 years. I insert the tip of the line into the hollow braid and seal it with Zap-a-Gap then 12-turn nail knot a section of 0X to the tip of the braid and build down conventionally to a 4 to 5' tippet section. This leader is typically abouat 14' long for my #4 & 5 outfits and is used on technical dry fly water. For #6 I use hand built hard to medium to supple mono leaders. I do a 12-turn nail knot to the tip of the line with .022 stiff RIO and blood knot on down to my tippet where I switch to a ligiture knot. This leader is used from a drift boat or for less technical larger fly casting (Salmon Flies anyone?). For salt I nail knot a 4' section of #40 fluro and here, because wind determins the length of leader I want to use, I form a small perfection loop which mates to the same on the next #30 section. I will have a pair of all fluro leaders built, one of about 9' and another going 13 - 15 feet. These are used on #8 & 9 riggs for bonefish and striped bass on the flats. I change leaders VERY infrequently, re-building as necessary during the course of a fishing trip or even a full season. Barring an extreme misshap, the braided leaders last the 3 year life span of a fly line.

How does one affix a furled leader to the tip of the fly line and what quality of energy transfer is achivable?

 

[Jackster]

I used hand tied leaders but realized the main reason they are hand tied is to get a taper that transmits energy smoothly. I now use knotless tapered leaders because the steps in size are seamless and ultra smooth. Having no algae-grabbing knots is just a plus.
I guess I'm just new-fashioned!
I feel the same about bamboo fly rods. They've spent over a century trying to come up with the attributes plastic fly rods easily provide.

For very small streams I make short thread-based furled leaders. Many times you don't have any line out past the rod tip so it is great having the furled leaders act just like a fine fly line. You can cast and throw beautiful loops with just the leaders alone. That is great for really tight spots.

Side note: Everyone knows that Maxima always measures in 0.001-2" oversized, right?