Either I can't find the fish anymore or the minnows are them!

[allen1958]

Ok start off by saying I'm not a twenty plus year veteran to fly fishing, but I'm no longer a noobie! Lately it seems the most fish I have been catching are minnows, some would be considered specimen size! One particular species has a red stripe in front of the Gill plate. I must have caught 50 of them my last two times out, along with the usual suckers and chubs.and a small, rainbow .either the south mills river has been completely fished out or my mojo ain't workin the big hungry has also not done much for my confidence! Now I will allow it could all be me, but somehow I don't think so. Anyone else have this problem at the moment? Rather does anyone have the solution? I don't believe all of western north Carolina has been fished out, please help I'm not looking forward to only being a minnow catcher.

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[flyminded]

DH stocking starts this month.

 

[madison320]

Ok start off by saying I'm not a twenty plus year veteran to fly fishing, but I'm no longer a noobie! Lately it seems the most fish I have been catching are minnows, some would be considered specimen size! One particular species has a red stripe in front of the Gill plate. I must have caught 50 of them my last two times out, along with the usual suckers and chubs.and a small, rainbow .either the south mills river has been completely fished out or my mojo ain't workin the big hungry has also not done much for my confidence! Now I will allow it could all be me, but somehow I don't think so. Anyone else have this problem at the moment? Rather does anyone have the solution? I don't believe all of western north Carolina has been fished out, please help I'm not looking forward to only being a minnow catcher.

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I have that problem a lot! I fish the same area, SE Appalachians. Maybe it's the drought? It's usually when I fish a hopper/dropper. I tried nymphing the deeper holes, getting the nymph down deep and caught a couple 2 weeks ago. I only tried it at the very end so I'm not sure if it was the solution.

One thing I suspect is that those minnows would not be swimming around so freely if there was trout nearby.

 

[stenacron]

What was the water temperature?

 

[Rip Tide]

What was the water temperature?

Yup
I believe many folks don't realize that trout will migrate miles to find favorable conditions
A pool that's boiling with trout one weekend could be devoid the next.

There one pool on a local river where a fisheries biologist once told me that trout winter over there from 5 miles in each direction
That's a lot of effort to find a place to hang.

 

[flyminded]

Well the water levels have been exceedingly low all summer and still are ..rain is finally starting to fall, with more in the forecast, but it will take a lot over a sustained period of time to replenish the ground waters.

Even in the DH streams the fish that have been put in this fall have been stacking up in deeper holes. But these fish require longer lighter leaders than years of good water flow if you are not going to spook them.

The fish are there, it's just a tad more technical with the water conditions than normal.

 

[stenacron]

...the fish that have been put in this fall have been stacking up in deeper holes.

Different story then. Treat the chubs with respect, toss the hatchery slimers into the woods.

 

[flyminded]

Different story then. Treat the chubs with respect, toss the hatchery slimers into the woods.

Then many streams in the south east would have no or a lot fewer trout in them ... many of the easier access streams at lower elevations can not sustain a healthy trout population. They call it Delayed Harvest (DH) for a reason. Helps keep the hordes off the higher elevation streams where the wild fish are - which is also a good thing (well for me).

 

[stenacron]

Then many streams in the south east would have no or a lot fewer trout in them ... many of the easier access streams at lower elevations can not sustain a healthy trout population. They call it Delayed Harvest (DH) for a reason. Helps keep the hordes off the higher elevation streams where the wild fish are - which is also a good thing (well for me).

A lot of it is perception. I grew up in PA with millions of slime rockets polluting our streams and rivers (and lakes).

Bluegills are more challenging, and sporty.

 

[flyminded]

True, a valid point Stenacron - but I suspect most of these stocked streams would be devoid of all fish life due to poaching if not for the planting of some species of fish.

 

[ia_trouter]

A lot of it is perception. I grew up in PA with millions of slime rockets polluting our streams and rivers (and lakes).

Bluegills are more challenging, and sporty.

Why all the hate for the stockies Joe ?

No I do get it, but I would hate to think what would happen in a lot of states if they didn't stock. Iowa included for sure. Of course they wouldn't sell so many stamps, but the few streams that can support much of a wild population would be ravaged quickly.

 

[stenacron]

Why all the hate for the stockies Joe ?

No I do get it, but I would hate to think what would happen in a lot of states if they didn't stock. Iowa included for sure. Of course they wouldn't sell so many stamps, but the few streams that can support much of a wild population would be ravaged quickly.

Back in PA/NJ put 'n' take fisheries were just state profit machines. The marketed perception was that if you weren't fishin' for trout, then you just weren't fishin. The PFBC worked very hard to create public demand for massive numbers of easy to catch hatchery product... hatcheries that are owned and operated by the state.

Never any care over the detrimental effects hatchery product had on natural environments and native fish populations, not to mention the massive amounts of litter the truck chasers leave behind. Everywhere the PFBC's great white fleet went, piles of worm containers, power bait, beer cans, sandwich wrappers, etc. were sure to follow. The crowds too are over-whelming... all in an effort to haul home as many 10 inch, finless, tasteless, weak, stockees as possible.

I had to go to great lengths to avoid these swimming socks early season. Usually by 3rd week of May the majority of them would be fished out or dead from stress and their dedicated followers would bemoan the PFBC for not stocking enough and be onto other opportunities. After that the entire stream length opened up for prime sulphur season.

Of the few warmwater streams that managed to stay off of the stocking list... these places were just a ton of fun all summer (about the same time the wives of those early season "anglers" were throwing out their collection of slime rockets that had piled up in the freezer during April). Chain pickerel, smallmouth bass, fallfish (chubs), redbreast sunfish, rock bass, and others provided great sport on fly tackle. Untapped, wild fisheries... snubbed by the high class trout fishermen.

I was just never a fan of pursuing fish that were raised in a dirty swimming pool, loaded onto a truck, and then thrown off a bridge just to fulfill this weird need to fish for trout. I'd rather cast dries to bluegills and stop for a Filet 'O' Fish on the way home.

NOTE: The above message is solely the opinion of the author and is no way representative of whatever group one may think that author represents.

 

[Rip Tide]

As I've mentioned here before, I used to work at a large state trout hatchery. In fact it was at one time the largest trout hatchery in the east.
Extremely clean by the way. Otherwise fish die.
Here in CT, the fisheries management program is well known as one of the best around and hatchery trout are just a part of that.
The sale of fishing licences supports the both the hatcheries and the program and the more they sell, the better off we all are.

It's well known that most put-n-take "anglers" trout fish for only the first 2 weekends of the season and then either lose interest or switch over to warm water style fishing.
This leaves the trout streams to the trout anglers at about the same time that the hatchery trout are acclimating to their "wild" environment.
Would we all rather fish to wild and native trout ? Sure, but that's not always possible, so we have the "evil" hatcheries.

Here in CT we have a program called "No Child Left Inside" and part of that program is stocking waters where no self-respecting trout would want to live. (IMO)
Ponds in city parks and semi-urban streams.
Not what you would consider the beautiful places
I really didn't get that at first, but we stocked these waters every other week and there was always people fishing.
Nice folks too. It didn't take long to grasp how important it all was.

 

[ia_trouter]

I was just never a fan of pursuing fish that were raised in a dirty swimming pool, loaded onto a truck, and then thrown off a bridge just to fulfill this weird need to fish for trout. I'd rather cast dries to bluegills and stop for a Filet 'O' Fish on the way home.

Nor am I. Stockers are just part of my total fishing program, and many others here too. There would be a problem if if was all I had to fish for locally.

 

[allen1958]

What was the water temperature?

I don't know, I never take a thermometer.

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[stenacron]

I don't know, I never take a thermometer.

You should pick one up and carry it with you at all times, especially on marginal streams that rely on plantings to maintain trout populations.

--Streams that experience extended water temperatures above 70-72 degrees will force trout to seek out coldwater seeps or cold feeder streams to survive. Even trout that remain under these conditions will be stressed, and not feeding much at all.

--Streams/river that heat up over the summer without these coldwater refuges being present will be completely devoid of trout by fall (dead due to thermal shock).

--Also, "would be" marginal rivers that are "trout rivers" due to planned, cold releases from deep reservoirs will really move fish around. A very prominent tailwater river on the PA/NY border during summer for example: I fished with a guy that took the water temperature as soon as we parked. If the temp was ~60 degrees, we would be good to fish there... far above or below however, we would move upstream/downstream accordingly as the fish would be seeking their optimum temperature for activity.

--Winters on tailwaters are critical as well. Water close to the dam release that is COLD during the summer months, has a tendency to relocate fish downriver for more optimal temperatures. That same COLD water in the dead of winter however, now pulls fish up from the nearly freezing river temperatures downstream.

If your minnow river is 100% reliant on stocking to sustain trout, chances are the fish that were there in the spring are all long gone.

 

[Bigfly]

Never leave home without a thermometer....the armored Fish Pond therm. gets high marks from me.
In the summer here, the main river may be 60 deg plus....
But I have found springs that come off the bank, and off the bottom of the river, that were 58 deg.or so......and had fish around them.
They notice a few degrees difference, and go where it's comfortable.
In summer, the water near shore is warmer than the middle flows as well......
Sometimes by 4-5 deg.
In the winter, fish will lounge in the warmer shore temps.
I take a seine sample, while my thermometer is soaking, before I fish.....

Jim

 

[allen1958]

Never leave home without a thermometer....the armored Fish Pond therm. gets high marks from me.
In the summer here, the main river may be 60 deg plus....
But I have found springs that come off the bank, and off the bottom of the river, that were 58 deg.or so......and had fish around them.
They notice a few degrees difference, and go where it's comfortable.
In summer, the water near shore is warmer than the middle flows as well......
Sometimes by 4-5 deg.
In the winter, fish will lounge in the warmer shore temps.
I take a seine sample, while my thermometer is soaking, before I fish.....

Jim

Thanks, I'll try that. Any thermometer? Or do you have something spcial in mind?


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[tcorfey]

Fishpond -

Fishpond | Product | Detail | Swift Current Thermometer | 1992

Orvis -

Fly-Fishing Thermometers / Rugged Stream Thermometer -- Orvis

Several other companies make similar products.

 

[stenacron]

The Fish Pond model that Bigfly mentioned and tcofey linked to is the one that I carry. Two thumbs up.