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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    The part of all this warranty / replacement stuff I don't get is this... If I buy something, anything, and that thing self destructs when I attempt to use it for the intended purpose I expect to be able to return it for another that will not self destruct. WHat I described here is a "manufacturing defect" that led to failure.

    That makes sense to me both as a consumer and as someone who has operated a number of small businesses providing both goods & services since 1981.

    I'm sorry but it's different if I break whatever I bought all by myself. Where did we get the idea that every fishing rod made should be replaced or fixed for next to nothing or nothing if we slam them in tailgates or step on them?

    Analogies seldom work out but how bout this: you buy a new truck and ten days later you hit a bridge abutment while texting. Should Ford - Chevy - Dodge etc. offer repairs or replacement at a fraction of the price paid?

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

    Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard
    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

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  3. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    2,105

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ard View Post
    The part of all this warranty / replacement stuff I don't get is this... If I buy something, anything, and that thing self destructs when I attempt to use it for the intended purpose I expect to be able to return it for another that will not self destruct. WHat I described here is a "manufacturing defect" that led to failure.

    That makes sense to me both as a consumer and as someone who has operated a number of small businesses providing both goods & services since 1981.

    I'm sorry but it's different if I break whatever I bought all by myself. Where did we get the idea that every fishing rod made should be replaced or fixed for next to nothing or nothing if we slam them in tailgates or step on them?

    Analogies seldom work out but how bout this: you buy a new truck and ten days later you hit a bridge abutment while texting. Should Ford - Chevy - Dodge etc. offer repairs or replacement at a fraction of the price paid?
    Well said, Ard.

    Maybe what we think we are paying for with the warranty on fly rods is a bundle of the product and what would amount to the insurance in your car example. Somewhere along the way, warranty got conflated with insurance, as though in your example we were purchasing the car and the insurance in single transaction, and the insurance was a one-time, lifetime, no-fault policy, with the manufacturer being the insurance company, too.

  4. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    quiet corner, ct
    Posts
    9,274

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by flytie09 View Post
    We pay up for no fault warranties which are becoming fewer and fewer. LL Bean and Orvis rods are no longer all under lifetime warranties.

    .
    Orvis, which started this whole fly rod warranty mess never offered a "lifetime" warranty. It's always been 25 years.
    As for LLBean, their policy was always a "lifetime satisfaction guarantee" on all their products.
    That policy was abused to the point were they were forced to change it.
    The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements.Ē --- Horace Kephart

  5. Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by winstonwt View Post
    Your comparing a tfo rod to a Loomis and sage rod.Really
    Iím pretty sure he was comparing a TFO warranty to a Loomis and Sage warranty. Not rods.

  6. #55

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ard View Post
    The part of all this warranty / replacement stuff I don't get is this... If I buy something, anything, and that thing self destructs when I attempt to use it for the intended purpose I expect to be able to return it for another that will not self destruct. WHat I described here is a "manufacturing defect" that led to failure.

    That makes sense to me both as a consumer and as someone who has operated a number of small businesses providing both goods & services since 1981.

    I'm sorry but it's different if I break whatever I bought all by myself. Where did we get the idea that every fishing rod made should be replaced or fixed for next to nothing or nothing if we slam them in tailgates or step on them?

    Analogies seldom work out but how bout this: you buy a new truck and ten days later you hit a bridge abutment while texting. Should Ford - Chevy - Dodge etc. offer repairs or replacement at a fraction of the price paid?
    Ard,

    I completely agree with you and so does this editorial in the Angling Trade.

    Opinion Editorial: Rod Warranties… It’s Time for Us to All Have a Real Discussion About This Matter

    I wrote this years ago but it bears repeating.

    "I happen to agree with most of the editorial. I think it is the fact that I grew up during the times of regular warranties against manufacturing defects and NOT no-fault warranties.

    There was a time when the Sage RPL could be bought for about $185. The next year Sage brought out the no-fault warranty and the same fly rod was suddenly $250.00. Almost every other manufacturer then followed suit, and rod prices rose across the board.

    Why did Sage do that? They wanted to one up Orvis's 25 year guarantee.

    What happened is that Sage collected about 40% more per fly rod. That went to the bottom line because they collected this money and there were few rods being returned. If that "excess" profit was actually treated as insurance companies treat premiums, rod companies would not be in trouble now.

    That money should have been invested and over time it grows. It is that growth that helps pay for the repairs. Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway fortune is built upon the premiums and investment of Geico Insurance premiums.

    I can just about guarantee that that money was not held back and invested against future claims, but was taken home by the owners of Sage and spent. Overtime, you have this huge overhang of rod warranties and no funds to pay for the repairs, because those funds were not segregated from earnings as they should have been. The bump in rod costs were payments against future breakage. The purchaser was buying INSURANCE with the extra money the rods cost.

    Now we have this mess. So yes, get rid of no fault rod guarantees. If the rod breaks because of a manufacturing defect, the rod company repairs it for free. But if an angler breaks the rod because it is his fault, it is his responsibility to get it fixed. Why should a fly fisher that cares for his equipment pay for the repair of a careless angler?

    They don't even guarantee anvils for life and an anvil is harder to break than a fly rod."

    Now companies like GLoomis and Sage which sold rods with a no fault warranties are reneging and charging for repairs on those rods.

    This will eventually drive rod companies under. Therefore, some rod companies are backing away from fulfilling their warranties. For example, GLoomis no longer fulfills the no fault warranty that was in effect when you bought an older GLoomis fly rod. All Gloomis covers is workmanship and material defects just like a toaster purchase. They have retro-activily applied this to the older purchases.

    Current GLoomis Warranty: "G. Loomis rods are covered by a Limited Lifetime Warranty against non-conformities in workmanship and materials for the life of the original owner........ Breakage deemed to be the result of normal wear and tear, accident or neglect will, at the companiesí discretion, be repaired or replaced for a specific fee. A full estimate will be provided for your approval before any fees are levied."

    GLoomis Warranty

    Even Sage no longer covers their rods as they used to. Previous warranty claims were processed for free. Now they they no longer honor the old no fault warranties: "The lifetime, original owner warranty applies to rods with a serial # beginning with the letter "M" and higher, including all double letters (i.e. AA, AB, and AC). Any of these series of rods that fail due to misuse, negligence or normal wear-and-tear will be repaired or replaced at a reasonable cost."


    http://www.sageflyfish.com/warranty]Sage Warranty

    The entire no fault warranty is built on the premise that companies will place the excess fees in a "sinking fund" to pay for eventual repairs. The excess is invested, the investment grows over time, and that pays for future repairs. Greed is why this did not work in the fly rod business.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  8. #56

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Lots of advise given. Here is mine: currently on ebay Sage ONE 590-4 (5wt 9 foot) with sage 4250 large arbor (not top but a VERY good reel) and line for $650! That is a steal. Pretty much half of what that combo cost new. Hold on, no wait I need to buy that. Seriously one of the best rods EVER made. For that price, take your chance with the "non transferable warranty" On that note, Sage has repaired my "second owner" rods for their basic repair fee no questions asked.

  9. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Eastern Iowa
    Posts
    7,117

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ard View Post
    The part of all this warranty / replacement stuff I don't get is this... If I buy something, anything, and that thing self destructs when I attempt to use it for the intended purpose I expect to be able to return it for another that will not self destruct. WHat I described here is a "manufacturing defect" that led to failure.

    That makes sense to me both as a consumer and as someone who has operated a number of small businesses providing both goods & services since 1981.

    I'm sorry but it's different if I break whatever I bought all by myself. Where did we get the idea that every fishing rod made should be replaced or fixed for next to nothing or nothing if we slam them in tailgates or step on them?

    Analogies seldom work out but how bout this: you buy a new truck and ten days later you hit a bridge abutment while texting. Should Ford - Chevy - Dodge etc. offer repairs or replacement at a fraction of the price paid?
    Well said Ard....... your point stands, but allow me to alter your analogy some so the user is more "innocent", because texting is easily attributed to the user. We'll change that to an environmental driving hazard warranty offered by Chevy. Ford and Dodge follow suit of course.... 25 years later the truck manufacturers are struggling to survive, and the customers are used to the industry standard warranty. Now you want to cheat us out of the customer service we are entitled to by insisting we all drive too slow when the roads are slick. Yeah, I know you drive slow so don't go there. We all know when an old rod breaks we probably caused it.

    IMO, this problem was caused by creating an environment of customer expectations that just doesn't work out for the company long-term. I don't know who started this, but they made their bed with a bad business decision decades ago. Imagine what a new truck would cost if they had to throw in free insurance. Like a truck isn't too expensive in the minds of most already.

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  11. Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Regarding these at-fault warranties .. if we just quit viewing them as a warranty and instead saw it as insurance, then we’d probably all be okay with it. Even better though would be if it were optional. When faced with buying a brand-X $1,000 rod with this insurance, would you rather have the same rod for $750 without the insurance? I would.

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  13. #59

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    I don't want any of you complaining about fly rod prices AND lifetime warranties.....
    "Do yourself a favor. Take a kid fishing." - Franc White aka "The Southern Sportsman"

    "Maybe your stature as a fly fisherman isn't determined by how big a trout you can catch but how small a trout you can catch without being disappointed." - John Gierach

    "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau

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  15. #60

    Default Re: Buyer Beware. Cabelas does not repair their rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    I don't want any of you complaining about fly rod prices AND lifetime warranties.....
    I get it.

    However, is it OK to complain that the Sage and GLoomis promised and we paid for lifetime warranties and now they will not honor them. Sounds like perfect grounds for a class action lawsuit. That is a legit problem.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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