Buying Barbless Flies, a political movement.

[Noiso]

I live in SF and most of the places I fish require barbless hooks, although I use them regardless. I recently searched quite a few internet fly gear outfits and was disappointed to find a very limited amount of barbless flies. With the high amount of water that requires barbless I found this a little surprising.
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To encourage better availability of barbless flies, might it be a good idea to start a campaign of letter writing, email, and whatnot to the manufacturers, distributor and perhaps even any media outlets they advertise in? It seems that a majority of us here use barbless and even those who usually don't must once in a while via regulations.
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I know it is a simple matter to either pinch or file the damn things down, but why should we have to? Not to mention, if barbless flies are available, out there and ubiquitous, people who are unaware of their upsides are bound to ask and learn.
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I don't tie my own flies YET, but when I do I will still buy a few flies now and again at the local fly shops close to where I cast, for the advice etc. I will be interested in attending a tying class some day, so if you can suggest one close to San Francisco, please do.

If anybody knows of a good online source of barbless flies, please respond.

~Mark

 

[mcnerney]

Just do a goggle search for barbless flies, you will find a number of sources including EBay. Here is just one that offers barbless flies:
http://www.barnsleyflyco.com/50_assorted_dry_fly_fishing_flies.html

Larry

 

[MoscaPescador]

Let me guess, Noiso. You must have just been caught on the Truckee by a game warden who found out that your barb was not pinched down far enough.

The main reason why shops don't sell barbless flies is because they aren't available as you figured out. There are probably three or four suppliers that fill the majority of fly orders for all the shops in the industry. According to a friend in the industry, getting these companies to change their ways would be like trying to pull your own teeth out with pliers. To be realistic, don't plan on seeing commercially made barbless flies in fly bins soon.

Only one company can make that crossover. That would be Umpqua Feather Merchants. Almost all of its flies are made with Tiemco hooks since it is the North American distributor of TMC product. Unfortunately, Tiemco is slimming down its line of barbless hooks. In fact, TMC no longer makes barbless versions of the bugger (5263) or scud (2457) hooks. Umpqua has no say on what hooks that it can get from Tiemco. So get your Craftsmen pliers out.

Targus is another supplier of flies that has the ability to source its own hooks. The last time I checked, it didn't have a barbless hook at all. I have never been a fan of Targus hooks anyways.

Other fly suppliers (Montana Fly Company, Solitude, Idylwild) source their hooks from Daiichi or Mustad. I have only seen barbless dry fly hooks available from those two companies.

I would love to see the suppliers make barbless flies, but I know it's not going to happen. For now, I'll pinch down the barbs on store bought trout flies. And I'll keep tying everything else barbless.

As for fly shops, go see the guys at Leland Outfitters in Downtown SF.

MP

 

[cudexter]

why make barbless hooks when you can easily convert barbed hooks to barbless?

There is a greater market for barbed (i.e. those who want a barbed hook and those who pinch the barb down) than there are for barbless hooks.

simple economics.

 

[Rip Tide]

the barbs are part of the production of the hook
after the barb it cut, it's used to hold the hook while the point is sharpened

 

[MoscaPescador]

Cudexter,
I agree with you. It's simply about economics.

Let me tell you something that's happening in the Sierras of California (especially the Truckee River). Game wardens check everyone's flies to see if they barbless. They will pass the fly through a cotton ball. If it snags, it is not considered barbless. One can pinch down a barb, and still have piece that may snag the cotton. Some overzealous game wardens will ticket anyone if there is the tiniest amount of snag. The fine, as I was told, is $435.

MP

 

[mcnerney]

Cudexter,
I agree with you. It's simply about economics.

Let me tell you something that's happening in the Sierras of California (especially the Truckee River). Game wardens check everyone's flies to see if they barbless. They will pass the fly through a cotton ball. If it snags, it is not considered barbless. One can pinch down a barb, and still have piece that may snag the cotton. Some overzealous game wardens will ticket anyone if there is the tiniest amount of snag. The fine, as I was told, is $435.

MP

Ouch!!! That is a pretty hefty fine.......sounds like CA is trying to make money any way they can.

Larry

 

[jpbfly]

Just do a goggle search for barbless flies, you will find a number of sources including EBay. Here is just one that offers barbless flies:
http://www.barnsleyflyco.com/50_assorted_dry_fly_fishing_flies.html

Larry

You've forgotten a french barbless flies supplier Larry

 

[cudexter]

Cudexter,
I agree with you. It's simply about economics.

Let me tell you something that's happening in the Sierras of California (especially the Truckee River). Game wardens check everyone's flies to see if they barbless. They will pass the fly through a cotton ball. If it snags, it is not considered barbless. One can pinch down a barb, and still have piece that may snag the cotton. Some overzealous game wardens will ticket anyone if there is the tiniest amount of snag. The fine, as I was told, is $435.

MP

That is a problem with the game wardens... not the hook makers.

Game wardens should ticket a clearly unpinched barb. If effort was made to pinch, then game warden should show the owner a better technique to pinching the barb.

Education is more valuable to the GW in the long run than this month's ticket quota.

 

[Noiso]

Thanks for the responses and great info.
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Fortunately my fly fishing guru and good friend of 25 years warned me of the cotton test. He instructed me to test my flies in my wool fly patch before using them. Good advice, I'd rather spend $435 on gear. Although I have never had the pleasure of running into one of our fine Fish and Game types, we do a lot of our fishing in the barbless only zones. I have taken to filing down the barbs. It takes longer, but works much better for the cotton test.

The reasons why I think barbless should be readily available? It wastes my time to pinch or file a hook so that it doesn't catch in cotton and if barbless were readily available more people would use them - hopefully. I realize this is a matter of contention, and don't really want to get into that on this thread as it has been covered extensively in previous threads. Bottom line, I have selfish reasons of convenience.

California is certainly broke. You shoulda seen the army of Highway Patrol on our trip to the Upper Sac last weekend! Watch that speedometer people.

Before posting this thread I did a Google search and got the same results. Not wanting to buy an assortment of 50, I went to the Umpqua site and found a good list of barbless flies. I then went to their dealers page and searched Cabela's, LL Bean, etc. with the word barbless. Slim Pickin's. Slim to none.

Here is the biggest selection I could find online:
peremarquetteonline.com


Perhaps a non-profit company would be in order. Get a big pile of capital, buy a sh*t ton of barbless hooks and feathers, ship them off to a developing nation to have flies tied. Keep the price down and help out a struggling economy in the underdeveloped sections of the world at the same time. Don't look at me, I am much too lazy to undergo this type of venture!

~Mark

 

[JoJer]

I think what Noiso is saying is that if barbless flys were more available, even offered next to the same flys with barbs, it's a way to educate folks about catch and release when they ask "Why are these barbless?"
If both were available on the same rack and the barbless sold out first, you might move some of that economic force toward change. Getting the retailer to carry more overhead in the form of twice as many flies could be an understandable problem.
Perhaps a way to start the movement with a small step would be for those of us who buy flys to make a point of asking for flys ties on barbless hooks. If a retailer knew there was a market, he'd ask his suppliers. Etc, etc.
A side note: the last package of barbless hooks I bought to tie on were actually cheaper than the barbed version.

And a totally unrelated side note: If you ever get a chance, notice Slim Pickens riding a horse in the movies. It's amazing! Like he's glued on.

 

[Bigfly]

Noiso, go for it, tying is a hoot. Catch a fish on a fly you tyed, and you'll be done!
The fish get used to store bought stuff here, so it can really help.
Maybe learn a simple Hopper pattern and then morph it into other bugs too.(Skwallas, Ants, Stones etc.) Check out Andy Burk on Utube for some ideas.
Give me a shout if you come up to fish the Truckee, I'll give you a local pattern or two.
When I tye, the first move is to pinch the barb in the vice jaws.
When I fish, or when I guide, I pinch the barb.
In large part to protect the fish, but also to save a trip to the hospital or some fun field surgery. I've been hooked many times on my own and by clients too. Working in a shop we see people "hooked up" come in the door often. Besides errant casts, a dog running by and snagging the line while you hold the fly is a popular method of impalement. Another is hand landing a fish with a dropper fly trailing.
Pinch the barbs carefully to avoid fracturing the wire. High carbon steel doesn't flex far before breaking.
Had a chat with the Truckee Warden, he loved my smooth jaw pliers, the toothed jaws don't do the job. Asked him about cotton balls. He called BS on the story.
He did check my client and I twice in one day though. My past record, was twice in a year.
We have had so little enforcement in years past, it's nice to have more teeth out there.
The warden also explained that fish and game get a small part of the fine, State, County and local courts get the big share. A friend just payed a "reduced fine" of 250.00 for a barbed hook, just imagine, no license or using bait in "special waters". Ouch


Slim Pickens stuck to "The Bomb" too!! Yeehaa!

 

[Fly2Fish]

Bigfly's right - once you've had to have a barbed hook removed from someplace you'd rather not , you'll become a barbless hook fan for life. Lot easier backing a barbless hook out than having to run the barbed hook all the way through (pick the body part :icon_cry and then cutting off the barb and point.

Aside from being easier to remove from the fish, I've found that a barbless fly, even a pinched-down one, makes a quicker hook set since it doesn't have the penetration resistance that a barb provides. And if you keep proper tension on your line as you play the fish, I've found that no more get off than with a barbed fly. Frankly, the only disadvantage I've seen to barbless flies is that when you tie a dropper to their hook bend, they tend to slip off easier than on a barbed hook. But then, I've switched to tying droppers off the point fly's eye anyway as enhancing the likelihood of hooking a fish on the point fly without the interference of the dropper's tippit being tied off the point fly's hook bend.

 

[JoJer]

+1 When I tye, the first move is to pinch the barb in the vice jaws

I've never hooked myself or a bystander (knock wood) but there's a first time for everything.
Early on, casting weighted flies with that horrible Shakespeare composite rod and hearing them ZING past my ear made me a believer in barbless.

 

[Teamanglerx]

Since I do believe most fly fishermen are catch and release (except for a few for a dinner pan here and there) someone who sold flies that were barbless would probaly be very popular. Where I fish in Iowa many of the trophy streams are catch and release only. I know my fishing partner and myself both pinch down barbs on all our flies. I think that it is the right thing to do. If I could get all my flies barbless (and I would be even willing to pay a little more) I would definately purchase them.