Newbie Questing about leader

[Matttrick]

Hey all,

I've recently been getting into fly fishing, practicing my casts and what not. Here's the question:

It's Sand Bass fishing time. I was out last weekend, and the sandies were all hitting below the surface. When I was trout fishing I was using a floating line, and hoovering leader. If the sandies are hitting down below, can I just change to a sinking leader and stay with my floating line, or should I consider getting a sinking line also to go with the sinking leader?

That line is pretty pricey, should I change it; what's the best way to keep my floating line in tip top shape?

This is a shallow slow moving river by the way. The holes are maybe 8-10 ft deep.

Thanks,
-Matt

 

[Joni]

Mattrick, need a little more info on your line. A lot of the pricier lines are no mainteniance, and self lube. All I do is rinse my whole spool off in clear water once in a while.
As far as the sand Bass, is this still water or a river?. The sink tips will work on both, but if you are fishing stillwater you might want to think about a full sink line. I would personally recommend a Type II for all around conditions.

If you want to dress your line there is some good products out there. I like Glide. Put it on a cloth and run your line through it, then run the line through a clear dry cloth a couple of times.

 

[Gordon Bryson]

Matt, you might try a flurocarbon furled leader of about 6 feet with a 2 foot fluro tippet. This should enable you to get to the bottom in most of the water, that is, unless the river is more holes than not. I've found in using the fluro leader arrangement, a weighted fly such as usually used for sandies will get you down, and will actually pull the end of your floating line down with it. Most of the sandy flies we use are either Cypert minnows or Clouser minnows, with enough weight in the eyes to get a good sink. Hope this helps.

 

[Joni]

Good point Gordon. But with him being a newbie, I am sure he has no idea on the Flouro Furled Leader. (which by the way, thanks, I never thought of that ;-)
The clousers should do it though.
Those 4' sink tips could work also.

 

[Matttrick]

It is a river with a current, not stillwater. This fluorocarbon furled leader sounds interesting. I'll have to check into this.

 

[ffffg]

one of the cheapest ways to get down with the gear you have is a sink tip kit... i got mine at a fly shop here and cant find the package or rememer the name,, its 12 foot of 6 inches per second level line and several loop ends you have to put on your self.. i made a 4 foot and 8 foot with some extra orvis ends and it works pretty well..(once you figuree how to get the loops on right..) you get a hinge at the loops while casting sometimes, and they over weight your rod,,, but ive cought alot of fish with the 4 foot and a 6 weight in 1 1/2 to 4 feet of water.. im going to try the 8 foot on a 7 weight rod tommorow in a deep hole and see what happens.. i t is put on the end of your floating line and they work quite well for the 12 bucks i paid for it.. your floating line makes stripping then casting easier behind this setup... but youl eventually find out what works for you the best... i fish for trout by the way, dont know what a sandy is. but good luck, dave...

 

[Matttrick]

Sandies (Sand bass) is also called white bass if I recall. We catch a lot of them this time of year as they move up river. In the next month or so, we'll start seeing hybrid bass and crappie.

Sink Tip kits and fluorocarbon furled leaders, no know what I'm going looking for tomorrow.

 

[Joni]

Don't know if you can find a FURLED leader in a store. I make my own, but I have never made one out of Flouro. I make mine out of Uni thread and Nylon.

 

[Jakeway]

I've tried furled leaders, and maybe the guy that made them didn't do it quite right, but mine seemed to slowly twist as I retrieved them, like they were un-ravelling.

You could also try a braided loop leader, instead of a furled leader. Same principle, but they're braided instead of furled. You should be able to find them in Orvis shops, since Orvis makes them.

This winter I've done quite a bit of streamer fishing with the home-made removable sink tips, and they fished quite well. I had a ten foot sink tip line on one rod, and the removeable tips on full floating line on another rod, and I kept trading back and forth to compare them. Except for the noise as the loops went though the rod guide, they fished paractically indentically. I think they;re a good altrnative if your budget doesn't allow for a sinking line and a spare spool or reel.

 

[BigCliff]

I like the sinking leaders for what you're looking for, but they are a bit different to cast. They really are like a miniature shooting head, so it will probably help to cast more like one would when using a shooting head.

Hold on, I'm gonna 'splain it: You won't want to have as much line outside the rod tip while false casting, since that sinking leader is still heavier than your fly line. If you normally have 30' of line out before shooting, you may want to have more like 15' and the 7' of sinking leader. Play with it and figure out what works for you.

You also will need to bring that sinking leader up to the surface before picking up the line. If it were me, I would strip in line until I had 15-20' of fly line outside the rod tip, roll cast once to put the leader on top, and then pick up the line and cast. If you can get the timing right for a single haul on the forward cast, then you should be able to follow this short procedure and throw pretty lengthy casts.

Just curious, where about are you fishing? If you're in TX I can give some good recommendations as to rivers to fish.

 

[Joni]

I've tried furled leaders, and maybe the guy that made them didn't do it quite right, but mine seemed to slowly twist as I retrieved them, like they were un-ravelling.

You could also try a braided loop leader, instead of a furled leader. Same principle, but they're braided instead of furled. You should be able to find them in Orvis shops, since Orvis makes them.

This winter I've done quite a bit of streamer fishing with the home-made removable sink tips, and they fished quite well. I had a ten foot sink tip line on one rod, and the removeable tips on full floating line on another rod, and I kept trading back and forth to compare them. Except for the noise as the loops went though the rod guide, they fished paractically indentically. I think they;re a good altrnative if your budget doesn't allow for a sinking line and a spare spool or reel.

No disrespect Jakeway, but, there is a big difference between a FURLED and a BRAIDED. They do not act the same. I have used both and PERSONALLY, didn't care for the braided at all. It retains more water and will spray when trying to recast a lot more that a furled. Braided when pulled through the water disrupts the water, but a furl (as you said) will twist and move more freely. I haven't seen your furled but, think you are right about it not being done right. Maybe too loose or not the right loop on the end.
I am still with Cliff on this one with the shooting heads. In fact try casting a little to the side. It will be a chuck and duck. But just slow down a little and all that Cliff said.

 

[Frank Whiton]

For those who don't know about furled leaders, this is what Feather Craft says about theirs. Feather Craft is a big supported of furled leaders and is a good source for them.

FEATHER-CRAFT "UNIFORM SINKING" FLUOROCARBON TAPERED FURLED LEADERS () FEATHER-CRAFT "UNIFORM SINKING" FLUOROCARBON TAPERED FURLED LEADERS All of the advantages and features of our best-selling Next Generation Furled Leaders, combined with all of the advantages of fluorocarbon. By combining multiple strands of fluorocarbon, and varying our design formulas, we have created a line of "Uniform-Sinking" Furled Leaders that will get your flies down fast. Loop one of these leaders on the end of your floating fly line, and "presto", you're fishing a sink tip fly line. Add 2-3 feet of tippet material to the tiny metal ring at the end of the leader to complete the sinking leader system.


With your outfit and to keep you from buying a new line, here is what I would do. Use a 9' leader if you have a 9' rod, tie an indicator at the top of the leader just before where it connects to the fly line. Use weighted flies or split shot to get the fly down to the proper depth. When I fish this way I cut off 3/4's of the tippet and then add mine own tippet of 18" or so. I fasten the leader end and the tippet end with two loops. You can use the tippet knot to add you slip shot and it won't slid down the line. This is a basic nymph setup but should work for your application.

The very best arrangement would be to buy a new uniform sink tip fly line.

 

[Joni]

When I make a sinking Furled leader, I add one strand of Kevlar to the Nylon mix. Not only makes it strong as heck, the Kevlar will help it sink faster.

 

[BigCliff]

Joni is right about doing the cast with the weighted sinking leader off to the side. Here is a link to an info page on polyleaders from the fine fly shop that sold me my first one years ago. They are great folks and will take good care of you. PolyLeaders