Knots

seajay

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I know that the norm is to use a nail knot to attach line to backing or when making a loop in the Fly line. What is the consensus for using a Uni knot in place of the nail knot?

Also when making ones own tapered leader most suggest a blood knot. Would a 2 or 3 turn surgeons work just as well?
 

Rip Tide

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I know that the norm is to use a nail knot to attach line to backing or when making a loop in the Fly line. What is the consensus for using a Uni knot in place of the nail knot?

Also when making ones own tapered leader most suggest a blood knot. Would a 2 or 3 turn surgeons work just as well?
The uni-knot is really little more than a clinch knot wrapped the opposite way and wouldn't constrict around the line the way the nail knot does
You might try the "nail-less nail knot" which I personally find much easier and works in the same manner.

The reason that a blood knot is superior to the surgeon's for tying leaders is that the ends extend straight out of the knot, while with the surgeon's you get a 45 degree bend.

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

I found instructions to three different "nail-less nail knots" on line
This is the one I'm referring to

 

dt doug

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SeaJay

Check out this video on making your own loop ends. Haven't had a chance to try it yet. It even looks fun! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wHGN1sYYKI]YouTube - Fly Line Setup with No Knots![/ame]

Doug
 

ant

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There's a nail knot tool that you can get that makes nail knots a breeze. BTW, I saw that video before and making loops that way is the best! Just make them big enough for the perfect knot on the leader.
 

Rip Tide

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I'm a big fan of the whipped loop, but I only use it on my heavier lines, 6wt and over.
On my lighter weight lines I like a less bulky loop made with a short mono butt section nail-knotted (or needle knotted) to the line
 

wjc

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That's got to be someone else's reel. He's holding it in his left hand and reeling in backwards with his right hand. He must be a salt water fly fisherman.
 

Brewmaster

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Looks like a fairly simple process and makes a nice neat loop; however, it also appears to be rather lengthy in time and number of required tools. I am sure it may be common in fly shops where there is plenty of work tables and all the tools you need. However, if you break a loop, or severly damage the end of a fly line while fishing, this does not seem too practical.

I can nail-knot a leader butt onto a fly line while standing in a stream in only a couple of minutes, and be right back to fishing in much less than 5 minutes. BTW - I do not mind that the nail knot is a really old style knot. Sometimes old stuff works just as well if not better than some new designs.
 

Ard

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I recently broke the loop on the end of a type 4 Hi density sink tip while fishing. I put a small perfection loop on the line (about three weeks ago) and haven't bothered with it since. It passes through the guides while stringing the rod and reeling in at quitting time so until it breaks again it's good with me.
 

wjc

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For leaders, in the smaller pound tests, I don't think there is much strength difference between back to back nail, uni, or blood knots. I start off with back to back nails, and use bloods when tying on new tippet when fishing for non-big game fish. Bloods can be tied with a minimum amount of line in the field, so you don't shorten up the section adjacent to the tippet by much. But I clench them up underwater because, of the three, they are easiest to "burn" or deform when clenched up.

I now use the loops the manufacturers put on the lines for connecting leader to line and backing, since I have heard good things about their strength in the last few years. Also because I have a stock of discontinued "new in the box" solid, hard mono-core tropical floating lines.

Nail knots are not particularly good when tied to solid mono-core, as they tend to compress the coating too much at the end of the knot and can pull it off, leaving a little piece of mono sticking out the end. One of those lines had the factory loop looking pretty suspect after a while and I replaced it with a mono-braided loop.

For fresh water fish , I would just use nails for both leader-line and line to backing. For leader to leader, bloods.

PS: An easy way to tie nail knots is to bend a thin piece of leader wire in half and squeeze to a good point. Then wrap around it and the fly line with the leader/backing, then shove the wraps tightly together with your thumb or finger nails. Now stick the tag end into the wire loop, and pull it under the wraps while spinning the line and wraps between the thumb and forefinger of your other hand. You will never get cross-wraps this way and the wire loop can be opened way up to make sticking the tag end into it a piece of cake.

Snug the knot a bit and get the wraps all touching each other, then slide it down near the end of your fly line before cinching up all the way.



Cheers,
Jim
 
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Stan Wright

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That's Loui-Da-Fish in the video... LOL Yes he fishes bonefish here in Hawaii... and any other kind of fish that swims. (I have some shots of him chasing after our smallmouth and peacock bass in Honolulu. Active TU member and trout guide in New Zealand. Carves a mean "bone" fish hook too.

That loop knot if the greatest. Just this morning I was changing a leader in less than 30 seconds on one of my rods. I use the Loop Knots on everything from a 3wt to a 12wt line.
 

seajay

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I have practiced the Blood Knot. My issue is the ends want to fall out of the knot while snugging it up. Is there any tricks other than using a special tool? I can do a nail and perfection with no issues. Just the Blood is a pain. I use a Surgeons for tying leaders to main on conventional rigs and have no breakage issues. This is for leader construction only.
 

wjc

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Hold the first tag end between thumb and forefinger after you run it back through what will become the loop when you start wrapping the other tag end.

After wrapping the other tag end around the standing line and sticking it through the loop the opposite way from the first, grab it also between thumb and forefinger of the same hand that was wrapping it and hold it. Now you are hanging onto both tag ends with the thumb and forefinger of both hands.

Keep holding them and slowly pull the standing lines away from each other with the heels of each hand. Soon the loop will close enough that you can see the tags won't pull out, and you can let go of them. Now put the leader under water and cinch up the knot.

Cheers,
Jim

---------- Post added at 09:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

For lage pound test leaders (60 lb - 40 lb) I use back to back nail knots of three turns. With this few wraps they can be tied around your thumb. The advantage to them is for this application is that the tag ends can be grabbed with pliers and pulled against the standing line to ensure they cinch up. With bloods, this does not work.

Cheers,
Jim
 
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