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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
    Posts
    4,752

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    Quote Originally Posted by wjc View Post
    I can hardly think of worse terms than "fast" and 'slow' and "action" to describe a rod. Almost no one knows what they mean, since they don't mean what makes sense.
    I agree. It seems to be a tad like a sales gimmick. I was going to say something else related to another post and thought better of it. Let's just leave it at saying I have not read a bigger hunk of BS in a while.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    quiet corner, ct
    Posts
    8,618

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    I hesitate to get into this at all because it's hard to describe, but as a couple of examples I have a 1972 Lamiglas "honey" 4wt.
    If you've never cast one of these rods, you can't imagine how "slow actioned" this rod is. You need to think in slow motion
    I also have a late '70s Orvis Golden Eagle 8wt. This rod is "full flex" to the extreme and yet it casts nothing like the slow action "honey"
    It's the loading. You feel it happen and it's all about the power stroke.
    Two supposed full flex, slow action rods. Zero similarity
    The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR
    Posts
    671

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    When i first started thinking to myself i wanted to take up fly fishing, i did something i normally dont do. I just grabbed an item off the rack at Dicks sporting goods. I normally research brands, reputation, quality, etc. Nope, for some reason i just grabbed a boxed fly fishing combo and thought i was good to go.

    A few years later when i am actively going to start fly fishing i had the combo set out and realized my mistake. I had bought a Martin fly fishing box combo. Doh!

    If little tip flex is fast, full rod flex is slow, this rod would have been immobile. I bet i could have coiled it up like a garden hose.

    I couldnt cast with it. It was just too wobbly. I know slow rods are supposed to be best for beginners, but i couldnt get anything done with that piece of ****.

    I went out and bought a fast action Redington Red.fly 2 rod combo and learned to cast in very short order, with less effort.
    Last edited by Vans; 03-15-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rock River, Wyoming
    Posts
    527

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    Not sure why this should be confusing as rod makers have been using the same terms for years to describe taper and speed: tip flex - fast, mid flex - medium, full flex - slow. Perhaps I'm not understanding what you guys are saying???

    A rod that flexes just in the tip primarily, recovers very fast (less weight and material), hence a fast action rod, just as a full flex rod takes a longer time to recover.

    Of course, rod materials also determine speed as some materials are stiffer for the same weight and taper such as graphite over glass, or high modulous over a lower one.
    http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24405&dateline=129884  8088
    Great Fishing
    Der Alt Jaeger
    Chuck S

    "I've traveled many roads and some weren't paved."
    Will Rodgers

    http://fishing-folks.blogspot.com/

  5. #25

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    [quote=pegboy1;411148]
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfzx View Post

    The amount of scientific work done is determined by the force applied and the distance over which that force was applied. So for the fast action rod, more force X short distance. The slower rod: less force X longer distance. For any given two rods the work done should be equal.....however reality is never that easy. Perception always throws a hitch in things: we are all unique, and we all perceive things differently.[
    COLOR="Silver"]

    How does inertia factor in with getting the softer material moving at the speed of the faster material, as it relates to tip speed?
    The best wat to quantify Inertia (Newton's First Law) is in the sense of how hard it is to start and stop an object's motion. This is more due to the swing weight of the rod and the weight of the line being thrown than the action of the rod. Now, with that being said, it is harder (requires more force) to cause a faster acceleration. A slow action rod in which you have to slow down your stroke to get a good cast would require less force, but it would need to be applied over a longer distance.

    As stated already time is a factor. Power is the Work done per unit of Time. So for any two rods, if the total work done is equivalent, as I wrote before, the determining factor is the time interval over which the Work is done. For a slower action rod the stroke takes longer, so the time interval is longer. Therfore, the Power developed is less for a slower action rod than an equivalent faster action rod because time is the denominator giving time an inverse relationship to Power. More time = less Power, given equal Work done. This can be a deceiving phenomena. Don't confuse Power with Work. Work is what actually determines the energy tranfered to the line (the Work-Energy Theorem), and hence the distance the line will carry.

    The slower rod will consume/generate less Power to cast an equivalent line. That should mean less Energy consumed for any given time interval.....but as I said perception is unique to individuals. What we "feel" is not always empirically true.

    Which is why I call Biology an "art" not a science like Chemistry and Physics. The biology department and I have had some "lively" conversations on this topic!
    Homer

    There is no greater fan of fly fishing than the worm. ~Patrick F. McManus, Never Sniff a Gift Fish, 1979

    Anger is like peeing in your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel it. ~Jeff Yalden

    Remember: The winner gets to write the history books.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rock River, Wyoming
    Posts
    527

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    "Which is why I call Biology an "art" not a science like Chemistry and Physics. The biology department and I have had some "lively" conversations on this topic!" Boy does that strike a chord! Coming from Physics and moving into the environmental sciences, I caused a stir every now and then by commenting on the same thing!
    http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24405&dateline=129884  8088
    Great Fishing
    Der Alt Jaeger
    Chuck S

    "I've traveled many roads and some weren't paved."
    Will Rodgers

    http://fishing-folks.blogspot.com/

  7. #27

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    I think we all need for spring to get here so we can go fishing! We tend to overthink things over the winter and then forget it all when we hit the water!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
    Posts
    4,752

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck s View Post
    Not sure why this should be confusing as rod makers have been using the same terms for years to describe taper and speed: tip flex - fast, mid flex - medium, full flex - slow. Perhaps I'm not understanding what you guys are saying???
    Yup, your not. Not one single person said they did not know what the terms are used for. Not one. What was said was they are really stupid terms for it, as the word fast for example has not got a dang thing to do with where it flexes. As I said it sounds like a sales gimmick. Then there is the FACT that what one company calls fast is at best a moderate by some other company standards, and I use the term standards lightly as well. There was something else said related to this I won't even bother to address because as I said it was BS and I'm trying to be nice about it.

    Just for the record Chuck, I have been building rods for a really long time. I've heard the terms before.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    i think most rods labeled fast action rods are truly tip flex. I havnt casted the one yet but i have casted the Nrx and up to about 50-60 feet it doesnt flex into the mid section.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

    I guess I am not understanding. I see it this way: a "fast" rod will also flex primarily in the tip portion, while a "slow" rod will flex all the way down to the handle. These terms seem appropriate since it will take longer for the tip of a "slow" rod to move in its longer arc than it will for the "fast" rod to move in its shorter arc. This is why I have to slow down my casting stroke with a "slow" rod to let the rode "catch up"??

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