Ethics question

[FlyFlinger2421]

Suppose you were fishing and suddenly 20" trout began rising. You quickly realized they were feeding on a hatch of tiny midges. You dug out your fly box and found a reasonable facsimile, however when you tried getting line through the eye you discovered that the largest tippet that would go through was 7X. So the question is, should you fish for those 20" trout with the 7X tippet?

 

[itchmesir]

obviously... 20 on a 20!

 

[williamhj]

What's the temp and what kind of water am I fishing?

 

[wtl]

You are saying it would be unethical because you would have to play the fish very, very softly, tiring it out and perhaps killing it?

I think unethical is too strong of a word here. It is certainly not optimal from a catch and release perspective. But look at it this way, what if you are blind casting with 7x, and hook a 20 inch fish? Is that suddenly unethical? Should you just cut the line? Probably not.

What if they you have to use the tiniest fly in the box to even get the fish to rise, and only then with the softest, most graceful landing that a 7x tippet will give? Does the trout's pickiness create a situation where you can no longer ethically target them to the best of your ability (going with such a small tippet, some would say, is a sign of a true sportsman).

Perhaps, this is a situation that requires the simple good faith effort. Go ahead and use the 7x leader, and the #20 dry. Go ahead and try to get him to rise. And then, take mitigating measures - don't spend 20 minutes letting it work itself to die. Just, reasonably, try and get it in as if it were a 4 or 5x. If you land it, wow, you were both good and maybe a smidge lucky depending on the area cover. If you lose him, you aspired for a worthy goal, and earned a glass of the good scotch when you get back. Thats my answer.

 

[silver creek]

Since this is a theoretical question, I have a theoretical answer.

The conundrum is the low test of traditional monofilaments. That is where the ethical question comes in. However, there is a way around that. If a stronger material could be found, it would no longer be a question of ethics.

I guess I would try for them with a super line like Fireline Fused Crystal micro ice in 3 lb test. It is 7X diameter.

Fused polyethlene was sold by Orvis as tippet material in the 1990's but it never caught on. It is so limp it is difficult if not impossible to lay out the tippet on a cast. But in case like you describe, I think I can make it work with a downstream parachute cast to line up with the narrow feeding lanes that big fish occupy when feeding on midges.

3 lb test is about what Cortland 5X Nylorfi tippet material was in the 1980s and it could land 20 inch fish without over stressing them. 3 lb test is not a problem because the tiny hooks that only a 7x tippet can thread may not even take a 3 lb pull without breaking or opening up.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

I think unethical is too strong of a word here. It is certainly not optimal from a catch and release perspective. But look at it this way, what if you are blind casting with 7x, and hook a 20 inch fish? Is that suddenly unethical? Should you just cut the line? Probably not.

Lets give this a bit more thought.

I agree it is not unethical if you unintentionally caught the fish. However, in my view, this is not ethically the same as intentionally fishing for that fish.

I think in this case, intent precedes action in determining the ethical nature of the action.

If they were ethically the same, then accidentally snagging a fish would be the same as intentionally trying to snagging a fish.

I would go one step further. Intent precedes content and action. One does not have to even have to snag a fish. The act of trying to snag is by itself unethical behavior. If that is so and if catching a large fish on too light a tackle is unethical; then it follows that the act of fishing for large fish with too light a tackle is unethical.

 

[mrfzx]

I have done this on Yellow Creek here in PA. If the water is cold...i.e. early spring of late fall/winter....no problem. In the summer the warmer water will stress the trout much more severely, but if you take the time to really do a good job with revivification they should be okay. The trick is to get them revived in well oxygenated water.....like close to where the riffles enter a pocket or hole. Many people will revive them in the shallow back eddies where they land them, and these waters are mostly dead water. Very warm and low on oxygen.

But I guess my answer is kind of a moot one as you are likely to encounter such a teeny tiny hatch only in cold water...at least where I fish.

Also, I've seen guys land big steelhead on very light leaders in a matter of a minute or two, and another angler using virtually the same set-up take nearly 10 minutes to land a similar fish. Fighting a fish is a skill just like casting or picking what fly to fish. Not everyboddy does it the same, and some are definitely better than others at it.

So, my answer is YES. Fish the light leader, just do your part after the catch, and realize that despite your best efforts you may loose a fish or two.

 

[jsquires]

So take it to the extreme. If the species you are fishing for has nerve endings in its mouth, is it ethical (or humane) to even cast the fly?
I think of it as I'm infusing a bit of excitement into the fish's otherwise mundane existence, perhaps adding to the fish's health by giving it some exercise, not to mention doing the same for me.

 

[Guest1]

I hate these kinds of threads. This is designed to pot stir.

 

[jsquires]

I hate these kinds of threads. This is designed to pot stir.

I agree, DD.

 

[fredaevans]

I agree, DD.

+1

Regardless of the situation, there should be no question of "Ethics." Long time back and a huge hatch of Salmon Flies. These things were are close to 2" long and Summer Run Steelhead were 'sipping' (right word?) off the surface. Stacked the rod and just sat back and watched.

Another Guy comes up and does a 'DO YOU SEE THAT???!!!'

Told, well "ordered" would be a more correct word, 'Don't even think about it, we're watching something very special.'

Fellow looks and me, parks his fly rod next to mine, and we spent close to an hour just watching Mom Nature at work. Between us, we killed a flask of very good Single Malt Whisky.

A very good day.

fae

 

[Kerry Pitt]

I guess I would have to ask "Who wouldn't try for it?" I agree that is is a pot stirring post, but really would anyone not try for this fish?

 

[akruss]

I had such an opportunity about a year and a half ago on the Bighorn River in Montana. I fished the Trico hatch with size 20 and 22 flys and 6X tippets with a 4 weight fly rod. It was very challenging fishing. I landed a number of trout in the high teens and had a smaller number of 20 plus inch trout on but could not bring them to net. The tippet is just one issue - another is the strength of the hooks. None of the fish I landed were particularly tired and swam well after reviving them for a bit. The larger trout were brutes and straightened, broke or pulled the hook free or popped the tippet. If I found I was killing the trout, ethics would require that one stop doing so, of course.

 

[wt bash]

That's how you fish a spring creek where I come from. Hook it play it like you don't have 7x if you lose it so what you got it to take. You'd be surprised by what you can do with 7x if you forget its 7x. Fight the fish smart, turn it when you get the opportunity and run it straight into a net, game over. Is it an epic battle worthy of a magazine spread...no but you got a 20 inch fish to rise to #20 (or under) fly that should be game enough.

 

[FlyFlinger2421]

I read one of Ard's posts where he fished for Kings with a 7wt rod because he had intended to fish for sockeye that day. He apologized for that and it started me "thinking" about my fly fishing here in Colorado.
Sure would like a definition of "pot stirring". It seems to me kinda like the same thing as getting someone to think about what they do or don't do.
As long as they think about things like this, it really doesn't matter what their decision is because they are comfortable in their own skin and can defend their choice.

 

[fly_guy12955]

Well,,if a 7x tippet is all you have,,and you didnt bring any cherry bombs or dynamite then,,,,,OK OK,,just joking ! (was just thinking of an old Jerry CLower story !)

They gave this guy,,umm ,,,this was,,,20 years ago maybe,,,that was blasting strippers down on Claytor Lake to get 'tropheys' to sell to rich old 'sportsmen'.....a sentence about as much as if he'd murdered someone. (I cant remember now,, exactly how many years but it was a lot) I wish they'ed gave him another year on top of forever. But that stuff really did used to go on though,,,I've heard the stories from the old timers and it must'a been kinda common way back when. I just can't wrap my mind around just wanting the fish so bad I'd blow'em up to get'em. Unless times were so hard I was starving. Even then......

Mike

 

[dillon]

No problem. I never carry 7x. So, I'd use 6x. Ethics with playing a fish all boils down to landing a fish quickly and releasing it properly. Playing a fish with light pressure to exhaustion is wrong. Apply pressure, and if it breaks off no big deal. Hooking it was the big deal...

 

[FlyFlinger2421]

Does anyone know of a study that compares the length of time that a fish is played to mortality rate? Seems like there should be some.

 

[jhardin80]

I don't think it would be an issue. Nobody on this site wakes up and says "Hey, I think I'm going to go out today and try to kill a few trout"

If you do it smart then you shouldn't have any problems with it. I have fished trout for almost my entire life and I can honestly say, I have never killed a trout by playing it too long. If you are gentle with them and help them get revived when releasing them then they are good to go. We have caught trout on some small line down in the Ozarks and you can still get them in fairly easily without breaking it or hurting the fish.

 

[plecain]

Does anyone know of a study that compares the length of time that a fish is played to mortality rate? Seems like there should be some.

This is about bass, mostly. Still interesting reading.

http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/info_sheets/cr_mortality.pdf

and another:

Catch and Release Mortality (Part 2) | Wolverine Fly Fishing Journal

 

[theboz]

To many variables! That's why it's part pot stirrer part who knows? Wide open water no obstructions who knows! I'm sure its been done. I'm sure ther have been breakoffs . Probably many fish brought to net on light tippets and released fine. Ethics cannot be standardized in this situation. Only way to know is to go for it , I would and judge for myself!

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

When ethics get that technical it's time to play golf !