The right boat?

[alligator]

I'm trying to figure out the best boat for me. Two years ago I purchased a Native Watercraft Tegris, sort of a canoe-kayak hybrid that's ultra lightweight. I have not liked sitting at water level where I can't see what I'm casting to. Also, while incredibly steady, it has high water drag...it's slow.

I want this one-person boat to fish for Smallmouth on MN on streams as big as the upper Mississippi and as small as the Zumbro (let's say down to 10 ft. across).
I want to sit high enough to see what I'm doing and what my fly is doing. The chances of me standing up to fish with my balance are nil. I do not plan on going through class IV or V rapids. Weight is important since I will be loading and unloading it by myself. I wouldn't mind having a small electric motor on the back if it worked well and I could use the boat without it.

Any suggestions? Warnings? Experiences?

 

[mojo]

Only thing I can recommend is a kickboat. Frameless will be the lightest and quickest moving. But it'll be slower than a kayak. I'm not sure why drag/ speed is an issue especially if you'er fishing a river. Oars and fins to manuever and you can motorize them. But you're still sitting down. Another idea might be a pram.
I have a frameless kickboat and a framed one with a casting platform. I also have no problem sitting, or using the platform.

 

[ted4887]

Hey, a local! I paddle the same waters that you do! Check out the Native Ultimate. It's a kayak/canoe hybrid, but more canoe style than kayak. You can add a Captains seat or one of the big foam cubes that they sell that go under the seat that give you another 8" or so of lift to the seat. I'm located in Winona so if you want to get a look at the Ultimate, just pm me and we can set up a time for you to view it.




Weight - A bit on the heavy side at around 70lbs. It's easy enough for me to load, but I don't know your physical limitations.

Warnings - Whatever you decide to buy, add a rudder. My biggest regret on my Ultimate is that I didn't buy one initially. I will have one before next paddle season starts though.

 

[rogue runner]

Not sure if it would meet your needs or not, but what about an aluminum or fiberglass river pram? I've seen quite a few in the 8 to 10 foot range. One of my neighbors has a glass Don Hill 10 footer thats pretty sweet. You could probably even rig up a casting brace on one. And allot of them will fit in the back of a pickup.


Hope this helps

 

[brucerducer]

Rogue Runner:

Thanks. I had never even heard of a "pram" before. Looks to be an interesting option. Thanks.:yawn:

Wonder how that would do on a slightly rough river, compated to a Kayak sort of boat?

 

[rogue runner]

brucer

I have never rowed one, but I have seen quite a few on the river. I fish the upper rogue so I dont have a basis for comparison. but it does have a several sporty spots on it. maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[brucerducer]

I found this website to be very informative for me in these considerations.

Fly fishing from a kayak


and this website seemed informative also:


http://www.livestrong.com/article/153313-kayak-fishing-information/

My primary concern, is what is the likelihood that I am going to tip over in this, on a River. I'm not worried so much about a Lake, I know lake fishing from an Aluminum Boat, but how about on the Rivers?

.

 

[schiff]

I found this website to be very informative for me in these considerations.

Fly fishing from a kayak

My primary concern, is what is the likelihood that I am going to tip over in this, on a River. I'm not worried so much about a Lake, I know lake fishing from an Aluminum Boat, but how about on the Rivers?
.

With all due respects to the author of the link...Fly fishing from a kayak...I could not disagree more with almost everything he wrote.
A 9 foot Sit In Yak? You don't need a yak that tracks well on a lake?
A 9 foot Sit In Yak in the Ocean?
I do realize that the article was written in 2004 I believe, so a lot has changed, but even back then I think his strategy is flawed at best and could be deadly in the ocean.
This is just my opinion, but I would not follow any of that advise.
I am no expert, but do some more research to get more opinions before deciding.

 

[mojo]

Maybe because I've never paddled a kayak, I can't picture any advantages to having a kayak over a kickboat, especially for fly fishing. I understand they're fast, but you can't fish and really keep yourself in one spot if there's a breeze, you have to use the paddle. The advantages of a kickboat- oars, fins, and motors can be used, the frameless 'toons when topped off to the correct pressure move a lot faster than the framed ones and are more manueverable. Less 'toon in the water means less drag. And one more downside I can see compared to a kayak is it's more prone to wind, but then again, you have fins to keep you in one spot with a kickboat whereas you have to put your rod down, pick up a paddle in a kayak.
That's my observations on the main differences between the two, but again remember, I've never been on one, and I'm probably missing something.

 

[fly_guy12955]

A good fishing kayak is plenty stable,,even to stand in if it's 30some inches are wider. I have a fishing kayak that is 36" wide and you'd have to jump out to get in the river,,you aren't gonna fall out OR tip over.
The major complaint I have is sitting too low to study structure and currents,,you 'guess fish' a lot. Wind moves you some,,so that by the time you cast and strip in,,you have lost your desired fishing angle.
A fishing kayak with a troller mounted,,,would cure lots of the wind prob once you learned how to hold your position with a troller, it's easier than driving a car. Just set it were the blades barely move,,and that will hold you,,,,or ,,something along that principle. It'd hold you least through a couple or three cast and retrieves. Not having a swivel seat will mean you DO have to twist your body some... to control the troller,,unless you can put a foot control on the kayak,,and I've never seen that done. I 'think' an angled foot rest with the foot control 'could' be done,,,umm,,,worth looking into maybe.
I'm gonna try one'a them 'pond prowler' type boats and mount a troller with foot control (Steering),,only I'm getting the Pelican Bass Raider 10E,,,the extra weight over the blow up things should stabilize you a bit more in wind. And the Pelican Bass thingy has high'er SWIVEL SEATING. And, they are super stable from all reports, lot's more than say a 12ft jon boat. High'er swivel seating for comfort but mostly to study current flow and structure, a stripping basket on the floor, troller foot control,,,,,should work really decent. And, I won't have to sell grand-kids to pay for it.

Hey, don't rule out the Nucanoe,,,you can get higher swivel seats for the Frontier 12....I'd thought about that one too. Way more capacity than a kayak, ,,well,,all the plus's and MORE of a kayak and none of the disadvantages. The Nucanoe or at least the Frontier 12 is a wee bit more expensive,,at 'appx' 1200 or so. They even have 10ft fly fisherman models,,,check the price on those too...I'm sure they'd be every bit a cheap as the kayak,,as the Frontier 12 is the most expensive one they make. Check out the videos on Nucanoe.,,paddle or troller either way on that one.

Mike

 

[schiff]

Maybe because I've never paddled a kayak, I can't picture any advantages to having a kayak over a kickboat, especially for fly fishing. I understand they're fast, but you can't fish and really keep yourself in one spot if there's a breeze, you have to use the paddle. The advantages of a kickboat- oars, fins, and motors can be used, the frameless 'toons when topped off to the correct pressure move a lot faster than the framed ones and are more manueverable. Less 'toon in the water means less drag. And one more downside I can see compared to a kayak is it's more prone to wind, but then again, you have fins to keep you in one spot with a kickboat whereas you have to put your rod down, pick up a paddle in a kayak.
That's my observations on the main differences between the two, but again remember, I've never been on one, and I'm probably missing something.

Mojo, I have a SOT yak and a Scadden Assault. The difference as I see it is the water you most often fish. In my case I fish rivers and small/large lakes.
I think the yak is better for large lakes where you want or need to get from point to point easily or quickly. I use it on certain stretches of river where there are sections with slow moving water. As far as stopping a yak...depending on where you want to stop, a broom handle with a point shaved into one end can be slid through a scupper hole and into the gravel, rocks or bottom to hold you while you fish. I use the Assault kick boat in smaller lakes and most river trips. By the way, I picked up the Assault after a lot of reading and found this site via searching....you and Joni gave me enough good reasons to add one to my arsenal for fishing. Great boat!
You can add an electric motor to a kick boat or a yak, then you have to register it in Pa. I belong to a Kayak Fishing Club here and one guy has added the electric motor...it is sweet and really moves a yak.
Personally, I don't want to add a motor to either since I use them for their simplicity. Toss on top of the car and find some water to float. On the water in minutes. No fussing with batteries and motors and other stuff.
I think they both have their place on the water, but if I could only have one, it would be a SOT Yak. Then I would get a Kick Boat and choose water where it could be used more often. Lastly, I found the Assault to be a much more comfortable ride.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[mojo]

But where we fish, the average depth would be around 20' or so, so a broomstick wouldn't work so well. And most western waters we fish the wind presents a problem too. I would also like to ask, what to you constitutes a large lake and a small one.

 

[schiff]

But where we fish, the average depth would be around 20' or so, so a broomstick wouldn't work so well. And most western waters we fish the wind presents a problem too. I would also like to ask, what to you constitutes a large lake and a small one.

Evidently, you have never seen an East Coast broom stick...! 20' is no problem. LOL. Ok, so as I said, it all depends on the water you fish. I guess my point is that I find that anytime I know that I want or need to cover a long distance of still or slow moving water, I opt for the yak. I use a 12 foot SOT that tracks well and has decent speed. The yak is very good in moving waters also. It has scupper holes to drain and waves that come over the bow. It can perform in most waters and guys in my club take theirs out into the bays and ocean. I don't. The kick boat, so far I found it better in the moving waters of the rivers and small lakes near me that I only will move around in short spurts or distances and usually fish while moving from place to place. I guess a large or small lake depends on how much rowing or paddling you want to do. It really is all relative to each person and my small lake could be your pond. Kind of like deciding if the store is walking distance away or you want to hop on a bike to get there.
I prefer the kick boat as I run 3 rivers around me that are often shallow and have class I and a few class II rapids...I can stand up and fish almost anytime in the opening of the Assault. Some sections I float have 2 and 3 miles of very slow pools. If the wind is blowing up river, I will have to row through these sections and would rather have the yak here. I fish a few lakes where I need to go quite a distance to get to different fish holding spots, rather paddle a yak to get there quickly.
So, all this said, I think the yak will get me on all the water I want to fish. Since I picked up the kick boat, I tend to pick waters to float that compliment the use of the kick boat because I like to use it more.
I have a 15ft solo canoe also, but that has its own set of pros and cons and I enjoy a canoe trip from time to time.

So that is what I see as the difference between the yak and the kick boat.
The "Right Boat" depends on the water and how you like to fish. I think everyone agrees with this.

 

[mojo]

Evidently, you have never seen an East Coast broom stick...! 20' is no problem. LOL. Ok, so as I said, it all depends on the water you fish. I guess my point is that I find that anytime I know that I want or need to cover a long distance of still or slow moving water, I opt for the yak. I use a 12 foot SOT that tracks well and has decent speed. The yak is very good in moving waters also. It has scupper holes to drain and waves that come over the bow. It can perform in most waters and guys in my club take theirs out into the bays and ocean. I don't. The kick boat, so far I found it better in the moving waters of the rivers and small lakes near me that I only will move around in short spurts or distances and usually fish while moving from place to place. I guess a large or small lake depends on how much rowing or paddling you want to do. It really is all relative to each person and my small lake could be your pond. Kind of like deciding if the store is walking distance away or you want to hop on a bike to get there.
I prefer the kick boat as I run 3 rivers around me that are often shallow and have class I and a few class II rapids...I can stand up and fish almost anytime in the opening of the Assault. Some sections I float have 2 and 3 miles of very slow pools. If the wind is blowing up river, I will have to row through these sections and would rather have the yak here. I fish a few lakes where I need to go quite a distance to get to different fish holding spots, rather paddle a yak to get there quickly.
So, all this said, I think the yak will get me on all the water I want to fish. Since I picked up the kick boat, I tend to pick waters to float that compliment the use of the kick boat because I like to use it more.
I have a 15ft solo canoe also, but that has its own set of pros and cons and I enjoy a canoe trip from time to time.

So that is what I see as the difference between the yak and the kick boat.
The "Right Boat" depends on the water and how you like to fish. I think everyone agrees with this.

I totally agree with you. Different waters require different crafts.
It does seem that the kayaks are more popular on the eastern waters, although I do see a few here. Tubes and kickboats with a smattering of drift boats pretty much rule. As big as some of the lakes and reservoirs are (Strawberry is 17,000 acres) there are certain bays that we drive to and fish. So in that respect, oars or electric trolling motor work perfect. Same thing at Henry's Lake. Just drive to different parts of the lake.

 

[brucerducer]

It would help to identify the specific Kayaks with a width of 34" to 36" in models of about 8 to 10 feet for Freshwater Rivers and Reservoirs?

Can anyone recommend several top brand names of good quality? Are they all of the same good quality?

 

[schiff]

Ocean Kayak, Wilderness Systems and Hobie are the ones that come to mind.
They come to mind because I see so many people using them, but there are others out there I am sure.
My Tarpon 120 is 12 foot long and I believe 32 or 33" wide. It is a SOT yak and I have never had an issue with flipping it. It is extremely stable. There are Ocean Kayak models similiar to this one that I see many use also and they are just as stable. I think a 34" to 36" wide yak that is only 8 to 10 foot long will be a pain to paddle. Tarpon makes a T100 that is 10 foot, but again it is 32" wide. I believe others do also. There are wide yaks on the market with the tag of "More Stable", but their weight goes way up also.
The whole idea for me is ease of use and I often need to drag my yak or carry my kick-boat through the woods to get to the water. If you always have a ramp or access to the water's edge, I guess weight is of no concern.
Have a look at this site Kayaking & Canoeing | Kayak, Canoe, and Paddle Resource: Paddling.net
They have a ton of info on yaks and reviews. You will see the major brands and their specs to get some ideas.
See if you can find a dealer near you and get their opinion on the best choice for your use. Better if they let you try a few out prior to selecting. That is the best way to choose, getting in one for short paddle will give you a good idea of the boat.

Hopefully, others here will offer their opinions on why they use what they use. Maybe someone uses a short wide yak and can tell the real story of how well they handle.
As always, just my opinions...not meant as fact.

 

[dpreller]

the two ive used that work best for me are the wilderness systems commander 120 and native ultimate. both are very stable and have " clean" decks to make flyfishing easier.they are both hybrid types which means you sit inside like a kayak but higher similar to a conoe. they are designed for fishing with stability in mind so they are a little wider than a normal kayak you lose some speed but make up for it with stability they show guys standing and fishing on the websites and ive done it, although its more comfortable to sit and fish.both also come with anchor systems that are easy to use while in a sitting position by use of ananchor trolley. as you drift and you want to stop to fish a spot you simply drop anchor and fish then raise it and move on. now you cant anchor in class three rapis but thats just part of the give and take. search them and visit there web sites they will explain more about them.

 

[fly_guy12955]

Ocean Kayak's Big Game Prowler,,34", stable, very nice. Websites mostly show the yellow one, but you can get it in tan also.

Jackson kayak's make's several nice models too.

Emotion's make durable kayaks...they are pretty basic,,but you can trick them out. And they are a good bit less expensive. They have one that is 36" wide,,wont be fast, but it would be stable. I've used them before,,,good basic craft.

Before I'd buy any of them, I'd get the NuCanoe with taller seats so you can see a bit,,,,structure and water seams are all important to catching fish. I've used one before, and they are a mega impressive water craft.

 

[osok]

In my kayak club a few of the members use shorter 12'-14' kayaks. The Wilderness Systems Ride 13' is the favorite. Wide enought to be stable, short for manuvering, set on top so water drains(don't need pump). I have two kayaks with one being 13 1/2' and the other 16'. I only use the shorter kayak(Ocean Kayak Trident 13), when fishing lakes or somewhere that I'm not paddling far. The Trident has a place for depth finder and HummingBird makes a transducer that fits in one of the scupper holes. This makes the Trident a good kayak for deeper water. The Wilderness Systems Tarpon 16 is a speed machine but is only 28" wide. Not for standing! Most of my kayak fishing is saltwater bays and marshes. Since I may paddle several miles some days I favor the Tarpon. Holding place in a kayak on lakes, bays, rivers in wind is not a problem if you use a small anchor. Drop and fish, pickup and move and drop again. Takes 1 minute or less. If you like to drift with the wind then we use a drift chute to slow kayak down to a speed allowing fishing.

I also have an Outlaw pontoon(framed). I'm still learning to use but have found that it is not easy to use in shallow water. Trouble rowing due to shallow water and often dragging on bottom requiring me to get out and drag. Now I love it when the water is deeper and it is great for standing to fish. For me I need about 3' + depth to enjoy the Outlaw. As I said I am still learning how and best situations to use it. If my local trout river(Guadalupe) ever returns to normal flows then I am going to really enjoy it. Have used it in a lake and it was very good rowing and standing to fish. I also anchor pontoon in lake to fish a spot and then move and anchor again. Again to anchor is a 1 minute or less deal.

This is my experience and not a recommendation or discredit to any of these craft. They each have their place in my fishing arsenal. I'm keeping all three.

 

[dpreller]

yeah im considering the nu canoe for my next craft. for what i do small ponds and slow to mi speed rivers i think it will be excellent.