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Thread: Tiny dancer

  1. #1

    Default Tiny dancer

    General question and insight...I was fishing a nice mayfly hatch with drys and emergers tied on tiemco sz. 20 hooks if I remember correctly model 8427BL. Though I brought to hand a good amount of fish I also came unbuttoned quite a bit! I missed alot on the set and lost alot after the set. Does anyone come across this problem with small hooks? Also I was a little over gunned with my legend elite 9' 5wt which many may know is a fast action rod but does have a decent soft tip. Looking for some input on hook size and rod action as it may relate to hookups! I'm definitely going to bring my 8'6 4wt ultra which is a little softer on Tues. and see if theres a better hookset ratio. This hatch always goes on this time of year on this river same section.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    That is pretty much what I experience with that kind of setup. Personally I don't like going that small on hook size unless I'm fishing over really pressured fish......San Juan River, Miracle Mile come to mind! If you tie your own flies, you can tie a size 20 fly on a size 18 hook. The other thing that I have noticed is that I have better results fishing with small gear when I'm using a mid-flex rod or full flex. I definitely like your thought on bring your 8'6 4wt ultra which is a little softer and as an experiment I'd first stick with the 20's and see how you do. Please report back after your Tues outting.....I'm curious what you find.
    Larry


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  4. #3

    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    I fought a similar problem when fishing for brookies with a Helios 9' 5wt. Getting lots of hookups but quickly loosing the fish. Started tying the same size nymph on a larger gaped hook. Thinking back, hard to remember if the strikes went down or not, but fish to hand went way up. Not at home to look at the hook for a specific model but it was a Tiemco.

    Dave
    I was going fly fishing until my wife suggested it, now I can't tell who is outsmarting who!

    Being "one with nature" requires a knowledge of what animals are living nearby and a weapon of sufficient magnitude to give you at minimum an equal chance of survival. No one has an invisible aura that animals can detect and sense your good intentions.

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    Did you mean 2487BL? Either way its just part of fishing small. You can do it with the faster stuff but like many I prefer softer action rods and a lot of side pressure.
    Oh I live to be the ruler of life not a slave

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  8. #5
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    You are simply striking too soon. When using very small flies on very light tippet, trout will not spit the fly out. I even wait until I see the leader start to move before striking the fish. It's not a question of the rod or line but the fisherman.

    I am not rich. I only had 1 fly rod....a size 7....until I won a another rod recently....a size 9. I make my own flies and I have used small flies down to size 28 on a 3/4 lb test tippet with my 7 weight rod for large brook trout (17 to 23 inches). If my strike/catch ratio was missing more than 1 trout in 10....I would really start asking myself some serious questions.

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  10. #6
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhyZpB36dn8]Peace One Day Celebration - Elton John - Tiny Dancer (Live) - YouTube[/ame]

    Sorry, had to do it.

    I agree with Larry's and david's posts. I often tie patterns sized smaller on a larger hook and much prefer large gape hooks. I think we all have our preferences in rods and action in general and for specific types of flies, but in general I employ the mindset that if I am missing fish it's me that's doing something wrong, not my equipment. Assuming of course I don't have an equipment failure of some sort.

    As for the hook, I'm thinking 2457 or 2487 hook? The 2488 hook has the wider gap, straight eye. I really like these ones in the 2488H (heavy). Daiichi also has some good ones, the 1150 which are also excellent.
    Last edited by jaybo41; 01-20-2013 at 03:25 PM.
    ~*~Leave only your footprints~*~

  11. #7
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    I've at times had a problem with losing fish and then next trip not losing as many. I'm sure it's operator error, but the post about using a larger gap drew my interest. I've been losing the fish mostly when using a Mustad C49S. Well I recently purchased some J. Stockard 500 series hooks and they have a larger gap. Will be interesting to see if my landing ratio increases. Then the question will be is it the hook or the operator?

  12. #8

    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by dabluz View Post
    You are simply striking too soon. When using very small flies on very light tippet, trout will not spit the fly out. I even wait until I see the leader start to move before striking the fish. It's not a question of the rod or line but the fisherman.

    I am not rich. I only had 1 fly rod....a size 7....until I won a another rod recently....a size 9. I make my own flies and I have used small flies down to size 28 on a 3/4 lb test tippet with my 7 weight rod for large brook trout (17 to 23 inches). If my strike/catch ratio was missing more than 1 trout in 10....I would really start asking myself some serious questions.
    A 10 to 1 ratio, that is amazing.

    Dave
    I was going fly fishing until my wife suggested it, now I can't tell who is outsmarting who!

    Being "one with nature" requires a knowledge of what animals are living nearby and a weapon of sufficient magnitude to give you at minimum an equal chance of survival. No one has an invisible aura that animals can detect and sense your good intentions.

  13. #9

    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    So yesterday I returned to the river with the nice little consistent hatch this time of year and sure enough like clock work...hatch going off around high noon. This time determined to redeem myself from last Tuesday (though I don't really count how many I catch because I don't need to stoke my ego it was a very productive day none the less with a few missed strikes and hooksets here and there) I lined up my 8'6'' 4wt ultra with ross 1.5 vexsis and rio trout LT and headed to the water. I would say I noticed a difference not only in hooksets but my presentations were far more on target and consistent. The only reason I didn't fish this setup in the past on this river is because usually nymphing is the name of the game and your throwing SSG goose shot or AAA split on 1'' indicators to get the offerings ticking off the bottom. So due to the aforementioned reason I always fish my 9' 5wt elite. All in all a great day on the river.

  14. #10
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    Default Re: Tiny dancer

    Well, some interesting replies, especially the striking too soon conundrum. Much in our hooking and landing of fish has to do with timing, but there is something you can do to improve your odds. If you look at a regular Tiemco 100 dry fly hook in size 20 or 22, the hook gape (or gape to some) is very, very narrow and if you can imagine to yourself the very small amount of fish flesh that the hook actually grabs with such a small space - let alone the timing issues - you realize you are lucky to land the fish at all once hooked.

    While I haven't solved the problem completely, I think I have dramatically upped my chances of hookups as well as being able to play a well-hooked fish by changing the hooks I use for smaller offerings such as tricos. My solution is to use the Dai Riki 125 emerger hooks for most of my dry flies. Although they appear to have a scud-type shape to them, they really do tie up some splendid dry flies, especially tricos since they have a pretty short body to start with.

    The 125's have a much wider gap thus increasing the ability to get a more solid hookup with much smaller hooks and fly sizes, especially in 18, 20, and 22's.

    Here are a couple of examples of two of my dry fly patterns tied on the 125. Although they are much larger than tricos (Flav and mahogany duns), the concept is the same for smaller flies also:





    In addition, I use a 'twisted' mono leader that has a fair amount of stretch to it upon the hook set as well as while playing the fish which I believe prevents break-offs a bit better, especially with the stiffer and faster rods available. I use a St. Croix Imperial in a 5wt which is fairly fast, yet I fish 5X and 6X tippets often, preferring the 5X most of the time. Rarely am I losing fish by breaking them off.

    Give it a try.

    Best Fishes,

    Kelly.
    I fish, therefore I am - but I gotta go to work first..."piscari ergo sum"

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