Bimini Twist: Backing To Fly Line

[littledavid123]

Two things: First this is a great web page to learn how to tie the various fishing knots.

Second I like this bimini knot for loop to loop tying backing to fly line because when tied correctly the knot has a angled profile < making it easier for the knot to go thru your guides. Not saying I have ever had a fish do that, but someday when it does happen...I will really want a smooth transition to backing when singing thru the guides.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tezh4McgNTA]Bimini Twist - YouTube[/ame]

Dave

 

[wjc]

The twists are too close together on that bimini and will reduce the strength of the knot. Only the last 4 or 5 re-twists just before the loop should be close together. Do a few of each then break them and you'll find the tightly twisted ones will break right where the single line enters the knot Edit: if using mono or fluoro.

 

[dabluz]

The knot is huge !!!
The knot does not have to be very strong because at the end of the fly line, there is a tippet that will break way before any knot that holds the backing to the fly line.

 

[turbineblade]

bimini knots are well-known for high strength, but they're too much work for me.

It's a lot easier to just use an albright or castwell knot for backing >> fly line and be done with it. Like the other guy said, your tippet knot will go first -- there's no reason to waste time trying to go from 85% knot strength up to 100%.

 

[swirlchaser]

It's as close to 100% knot strength that we've gotten so far. I know many say it is 100% but I have my doubts. They are VERY important to IGFA record chasers but like they've already said your tippet will let go way before a loop in your backing will.

 

[Guest1]

Like the other guy said, your tippet knot will go first -- there's no reason to waste time trying to go from 85% knot strength up to 100%.

If you have a 30 lb tippet and 30 pound backing and a fish rips you out into the backing I bet you would not think that for more than about 5 seconds. And yes, I have had that exact thing happen.

 

[swirlchaser]

If you have a 30 lb tippet and 30 pound backing and a fish rips you out into the backing I bet you would not think that for more than about 5 seconds. And yes, I have had that exact thing happen.

Well if your using 30lb tippet you should have 50lb gelspun backing or else you run the risk of losing a flyline no matter what knot you tie.

 

[Sep]

So the cool part about this is that you make the bimini's loop large enough to pass a fly line spool through, allowing you to switch fly lines quickly and easily without having to tie any knots or de-spool your fly line all over the place.

Mike

 

[Guest1]

Well if your using 30lb tippet you should have 50lb gelspun backing or else you run the risk of losing a flyline no matter what knot you tie.

I was experimenting and did not think I would get one burn me out into backing like that. The first two fish in a row did. I broke the first one off. That was a scary one. I was using ANDE and I guess the backing is like most lines where they say 30 but it's more like 38 or something. I just took the line off I was using on my two hander and kept the same backing. My PENN 4GAR pulls double duty, my 12 wt. single hand rod and my 15' Albright double hander. You can see on the reel from the same day it happened, the spool is not full. If I had known it was going to work so well I would have taken off the backing and loaded it full with the gelspun as you suggest.

The one I broke off was a Sturgeon in the high 60" zone and probably 85 or 90 pounds. Thought my line was going to be a goner.

 

[fredaevans]

Interesting thread to read. Only thing that hasn't been brought up is the internal strength of the fly line itself. Can't speak for really high number ones but internally 30# is about right for 6 - 10, and 20# under that. (Manufacturer's mileage may vary.)

 

[littledavid123]

The knot is huge !!!
The knot does not have to be very strong because at the end of the fly line, there is a tippet that will break way before any knot that holds the backing to the fly line.

Several here are missing the point, the wedge shape of this knot < will protect your tippet because there is less chance of the knot hanging up in your line guides.

Dave

 

[swirlchaser]

Several here are missing the point, the wedge shape of this knot < will protect your tippet because there is less chance of the knot hanging up in your line guides.

Dave

I get that point but it's not like it's the connection between say a shooting head and running line which passes through the guides multiple times during a day or fishing. It will only pass through your guides twice if a fish spools you, maybe 4 or 6 times if you have a banner day

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

Interesting thread to read. Only thing that hasn't been brought up is the internal strength of the fly line itself. Can't speak for really high number ones but internally 30# is about right for 6 - 10, and 20# under that. (Manufacturer's mileage may vary.)

Your about right, I think 7-10 have a 30lb core but if your flyline was to break it would likely break at its weakest point, the front loop or the front nailknot if your not using a loop. You wouldn't lose your line.
The bimini knot was designed to attach leaders forconventional tackle. In that application it passes through guides all day long so it's knot strength and shape is extremely useful. Don't get me wrong the Bimini is an awesome knot but for what it takes to tie one I just do a perfection loop big enough to pass a spool through on by backing and call it a day.

 

[turbineblade]

If you have a 30 lb tippet and 30 pound backing and a fish rips you out into the backing I bet you would not think that for more than about 5 seconds. And yes, I have had that exact thing happen.

I don't know -- I guess my response would be to not do that experiment. I was assuming that you'd use backing strong enough to not risk losing your fly line.

BTW - all this talk about "knots going smoothly through the guides" sounds a bit crazy to me. I've tied a lot of nail knots for their supposed "smoothness" and I don't really know what people are talking about. They still hang up often and I certainly don't get the impression that "hey, man this is a great knot if I ever need to reel my leader up into the rod tip!" as I'm pulling the hung-up leader through the tip when getting to the water.

Reeling leader knots into the guides isn't a good idea IMO. I avoid it.

Plus, nail knots really suck...though I've ranted about his before. They're like the "butt joint" of knots. Why would someone come up with a knot that bites into the outside coating of another line (alone) to secure itself?

Use a castwell, or if you don't trust it -- the albright is excellent. Both aren't as mechanically inferior as the nail knot. If you insist on nail knots, at least double the end of the fly line over and nail knot it so it's biting into 2 lines.

 

[swirlchaser]

I was experimenting and did not think I would get one burn me out into backing like that. The first two fish in a row did. I broke the first one off. That was a scary one. I was using ANDE and I guess the backing is like most lines where they say 30 but it's more like 38 or something. I just took the line off I was using on my two hander and kept the same backing. My PENN 4GAR pulls double duty, my 12 wt. single hand rod and my 15' Albright double hander. You can see on the reel from the same day it happened, the spool is not full. If I had known it was going to work so well I would have taken off the backing and loaded it full with the gelspun as you suggest.

The one I broke off was a Sturgeon in the high 60" zone and probably 85 or 90 pounds. Thought my line was going to be a goner.

Some times they just catch you my surprise. I lost a 5wt flyline to a bruiser of a Bluefish last year, he was not where he was supposed to be

 

[wjc]

Dave,

I don't know what you are using for backing or how much, but Cortland micron is hollow and can be blind spliced into a loop resulting in no knot at all. The same with Jerry Brown Hollow spectra. Spectra will outlast the reel, so it's not like you will be constantly changing it. If it gets cut off on a coral head, or oyster bar, new line can be spliced into it without knots, just like trolling braid or Cortland Micron.

Small spools (150 yds) of Jerry Brown hollow spectra can be had in 60 and 80 lb test for $30.; 100lb for $42; 130 lb for $29. 200 lb for $38. and 300 lb for $42. It also comes in 40 lb but it is too fine to be blind spliced (without an electron microscope ).

I have numerous reels and backing types. My serious reels have JB hollow. The rest have trolling braid except a couple fresh water reels with Cortland micron. All have blind spliced loops - no knots. I really don't see the need for knots of any kind in backing.

Though I don't used biminis any more for fly fishing, I always use them when conventional fishing to achieve near full monofilament line strength. In that situation, the leader is a higher pound test than the monofilament line. The line will break where it is cut on obstructions or abraided the most, almost always very close to the fish.

Edit: Dan, what is the pac man on your fighting butt for?

 

[swirlchaser]

Dave,

I don't know what you are using for backing or how much, but Cortland micron is hollow and can be blind spliced into a loop resulting in no knot at all. The same with Jerry Brown Hollow spectra. Spectra will outlast the reel, so it's not like you will be constantly changing it. If it gets cut off on a coral head, or oyster bar, new line can be spliced into it without knots, just like trolling braid or Cortland Micron.

Small spools (150 yds) of Jerry Brown hollow spectra can be had in 60 and 80 lb test for $30.; 100lb for $42; 130 lb for $29. 200 lb for $38. and 300 lb for $42. It also comes in 40 lb but it is too fine to be blind spliced (without an electron microscope ).

I have numerous reels and backing types. My serious reels have JB hollow. The rest have trolling braid except a couple fresh water reels with Cortland micron. All have blind spliced loops - no knots. I really don't see the need for knots of any kind in backing.

Though I don't used biminis any more for fly fishing, I always use them when conventional fishing to achieve near full monofilament line strength. In that situation, the leader is a higher pound test that the monofilament line. The line will break where it is cut on obstructions or abraided the most, almost always very close to the fish.

Edit: Dan, what is the pac man on your fighting butt for?

I use blind spliced hollow braid to make loops for shooting heads, wonder why I never thought to use it as backing Thanks Jim

 

[littledavid123]

That is a good idea...Thanks Jim.

Dave

 

[Guest1]

Reeling leader knots into the guides isn't a good idea IMO. I avoid it.

.

How do you avoid it if a fish rips you out into backing? Other than avoid big fish that is.

Now if I had been in a boat and had a driver good enough to chase those fish, it would have been a different story.

Edit: Dan, what is the pac man on your fighting butt for?

Fighting belt. It has bearings so I can swivel it and keep it bent on the spine. I figured it beat riding them like a stick horse and end up singing Soprano.

I liked it alot when those Sturgeon headed down river on me. You can put all the pressure you want on them with it.

 

[wjc]

Dan, about that pac man? I have no idea what it's for, seriously.

Swirl and Dave, you're most welcome.

Ahh! Thanks Dan - good idea.

 

[sweetandsalt]

It is true that once accustomed to it, a Bimini is easy to tie and also should be started with a more open spiraling that gradually tightens to avoid a pinch-point. Looping on fly line is the way to go if you ever switch lines around - I do often - an, if using the factory loop on the end of the line, it should be reinforced with a multi-turn nail knot over its double line portion. The issue of strength is not about the tippet being weaker than the backing connection. If you angle in environments or for species that regularly expose your colored string you know that a fish can take you around a rock or through a deadfall on a river or bonefish frequently attempt to run into the gnarly mangroves. Mangroves and rock piles are stronger than fish and one just does not want to bust off ones fly line. I had an unaware center console pilot run over my bright yellow fly line at Montauk once while attached to an Albie and I tried to land his boat by lowering my rod tip and digging in my heels and we all were yelling at him...