do heavy weights really affect us?

[bmbailes]

so ive been thinking.....do heavier setups really take a toll on our arms and shoulders?? i know my 8wt. really isnt bad and i can fish it all day! and then i thought, what do guys say that fish salt? an 8wt. is probably the smallest thing they use. trust me i want to be able to fish for years but i just cant see any harm but i do try to keep all my muscles maintained by doing weightlifting a few days a week.

whats your thoughts?

 

[fredaevans]

An ongoing discussion here. Appears that the heavier the rod and the more vigorous the casting shoulder problems can become an issue for many. Appears that a lot of fellows who now use 'switch 2handers' went to them due to this issue.

 

[Rip Tide]

I avoid fishing my 10wt unless it's really necessary.
Swinging that thing around in a heavy wind gets old during a full day. In fact anytime the 10wt comes out of the case I'm wearing elastic braces on both my elbow and wrist. If I don't, I won't be able to fish that same rod again the next day
With an 8 or 9wt I don't have the same problem.

 

[Jackster]

With poor technique any rod weight can take its toll on you. I would imagine that combining poor technique with heavier weight rods would simply speed things up.
All the above can be compounded with poor conditioning.
At the very first sign of pain or troubles it probably isn't a bad idea to see a sports medical doctor to nip problems in the bud or the the very best see a sports doctor before trouble starts and prevent issues altogether.

 

[jpbfly]

Think they do...I'm not an athlete...sold my 11 ft reservoir rod cause it was to tiringas my elbow was once badly bruised while practising aikido...I have to be careful :icon_rolldon't want to have a"tennis elbow"...My friend the fischmeister calls this kind of rod a "truck"

 

[trout trekker]

A good question might be, how many here think it was more of a problem years ago when most of the rods were heavier and when the big reels & spools tended to be heavy walled and often un-ported?
Some of those old graphite 1 and early boron/graphite composite rods really weighed in, by comparison to many of today’s offerings. Those rods when used in lengths beyond nine feet, could be a pain to bring to a complete stop, hundreds of times per day. Today, I could probably buy two bonefish reels, that cumulatively weigh less than my un-ported A/R Bonefish reel of the early nineties.

Regardless of balance, it all needs to be held in a particular manner, put into a specific motion and stopped - hundreds of times per day. That's why I'm a trout trekker now, but it wasn't always that way.:fishing:


TT

 

[mrfzx]

There is no queation in my mind: a day of casting my 12wt seriously wears on my shoulder/elbow, and I am not a milk-sop of an individual. Last year I moved up to my 10wt BVK to buck some stiff wind (really stiff). It was not pleasant.

The rod itself is not the issue....its the weight of the line you are pulling through the air. You get 40 feet of 12wt in the air and you have to pull alot harder to move it than 40 feet of 8wt. Yes, a good double haul helps. Lefty told me at last year's Fly Show in Lancaster, PA that he avoids anything above an 8, and I don't think his technique is a problem.

 

[bmbailes]

all good points! so do most consider the 8wt. to be in the heavy duty class? i ask b/c thats my main rod for bass. most of my cast are simply a pick up, one backcast, and lay the line next to another clump of weeds.

 

[double dry]

"With poor technique any rod weight can take its toll on you. I would imagine that combining poor technique with heavier weight rods would simply speed things up." X2

I have a good friend, that by all accounts, is a good fly fisher. He really put the hurt to his casting elbow while casting on the salt for a week. Took him a long time to heal. When you go from predominately a 20' nymph roll cast to a salt double haul without preconditioning you're asking for it.

Think it holds true for any athletic endeavor.

 

[sandfly]

why i cast the big rods all year in yard, used to lift truck tires with rims and never had a problem casting my 12 all day. now cause i am a fish bum and don't work have to keep the arm in shape. started cutting fire wood this year to help out he arm, holding a chain saw will give the arm some work..What gets me is the light crowd, you know who you are ! the ones that have to get that reel or rod to save a 1/8th oz. If 1/8-1 oz. is affecting your casting then get to a gym Now!

 

[nick k]

I know my 909 Backwater Diamondback takes a toll after a while. To be honest I dont necessarily think its the weight of the rods themselves, as the heavier rods are only ounces heavier than the light ones. I think the real issue comes from the much heavier line. You are often casting farther with heavier rods and casting bigger flies. This all totals up to a lot of extra weight and momentum that you have to stop and change direction in mid air.

I think most people jump instantly to the rod weight as the cause, when again, heavy wt rods arent really much heavier than lighter ones, but heavier lines and bigger flies at the end can generate a lot of drag and resistance on your arm when casting and false casting.

 

[ditz]

No one has even mentioned the effect of rod length. A 9' 5wt rod is more stressful to cast than a 6' 5wt rod. I can cast my 6' 5wt all day and feel no pain. If I cast my 9' 7wt for 4 or 5 hours I am really tired. I only intend to cast my 9' 9wt as a last resort for the wind. I don't own anything heavier than the 9wt. :yikes:

 

[bmbailes]

Maybe the length is why I don't have many issues. My bass setup is7'11".

 

[wjc]

I think the real issue comes from the much heavier line. You are often casting farther with heavier rods and casting bigger flies.

I agree with you Nick. Accelerating 600 grains repeatedly that's 8 1/2 feet away from your casting hand is a huge leap from a 4 or 5 wt. That is the main difference.

The much slighter difference is the weight of the outfit.

My modern 5wt with 60's era Hardy reel (Loaded) weighs: 9.3 oz
My old 12 wt. 80's graphite with Tibor Gufstream weghs 24.7 oz
My new 12 wt (Sage xi3) with lightest 12 wt made (Nautilus nv) weighs 18.5 0z.

That also makes a difference. To me, it's about the same difference as throwing a baseball as compared to a football. And that's the smaller of the differences.

I exercise my backcast/"abrupt stop" muscle two minutes a day (simple isometric exercise) during the winter so it doesn't get too sore at the beginning of tarpon season. That's when I will be casting to rolling tarpon or blind casting to find them when they aren't (sometimes for hours).

My forward casting muscles get exercised regularly at my shop where I run between 30,000 and 140,000 screws into metal a year with an air driver. In recent years the economy dictates the former, but it's still enough exercise.

Exercise (along with an ergonomic, easy casting style) are the only reasons why I can fish for tarpon the way I do at my age. It's just that simple.

 

[Guest1]

Before I took up the two hand rods, I ended up every year with a swinging case of classic tennis elbow, every year. Took a good chunk of winter and being careful how I picked the coffee pot up. Did not matter if I mostly cast my 5 wt. or my 10 wt. I'l tell you something else, if the stinking tiny amount of difference beats you like some proverbial redheaded step child, eat more damn wheaties.

You could mail most rods for under a dollar if you could jam them them in an envelope. When did we become such .....OK I'm done

 

[bigjim5589]

I grew up fishing with heavy fiberglass rods, and still use some of them. IMO, if you keep yourself in reasonable physical condition, then anything you use will take less of a toll. I do a lot of heavy lifting with my job, something that is certainly having a negative affect on me physically, particularly as I get older but I try to counter the negative with a lot of stretching & good exercise. The job is not good exercise, as much of it is awkward!

A similar question comes up often on some of the bass & saltwater fishing forums I frequent, and in most cases folks seem to feel a lighter outfit is necessary. None of the tackle I own is the lightest, and IMO, for me it's not a necessity, but if you can afford the lighter equipment, which is often more expensive, that's fine. You have to do & use what best fits you.

I can't afford the lightest equipment, so I use what I have, which has not yet become a problem that I see.

After handling & unloading 40,000 to 60,000 lbs of freight with hand carts each week from the tractor trailer I drive, a couple of ounces on a rod & reel isn't even noticed.

IMO, it's all relative to each of us as individuals & how we keep ourselves physically & mentally. If you think it's a problem, then it likely will be!

 

[ditz]

When did we become such .....OK I'm done

Yes, Diver I am a whimp...hehehe.....:frogdance and I get worse every year but I still like the throw a fly here and there.

 

[itchmesir]

Casting my 9wt I have to make sure to properly stretch my elbow out before and after casting otherwise I will end up with tennis elbow that I'll either cast through and regret in the long run... usually if I stretch my casting elbow out for a couple minutes before the first cast... I'll be good for the day

 

[wjc]

I'l tell you something else, if the stinking tiny amount of difference beats you like some proverbial redheaded step child, eat more damn wheaties.

You could mail most rods for under a dollar if you could jam them them in an envelope. When did we become such .....OK I'm done

OH Yeah?? Well you cheat and use two hands, so you only get 50 cents to mail yours. I'll just keep doing my backcast isometrics and wont' be mailing mine anywhere soon.

 

[45fisher]

Take a look at Lefty Krehs technique...he uses more body to cast than arm/shoulder. I don't duplicate his technique exactly but I cast more with my body then with my arms and shoulders.
I've casted with 'tennis elbow' using his technique and it doesn't hurt or make the problem worst. (Can’t spell ebassrate.)
It seems to work for me, as I have no problems throwing 3wts or 9/10 wts all day long.

Haven't gotten into throwing switch-rods yet. A current ongoing project is building one.

Larry