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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
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    907

    Default Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?


    I ran into an ethical dilemma fishing today. I drove out to one of my favorite holes. I only had an hour to fish so I specifically targeted one hole that I've had a lot of success with in the past. Unfortunately, a dead fall tree was overhanging the best part of the hole, making it very difficult to fish.

    I was tempted to push over the dead tree so that it would not be in the way next time. This is on National Forest land, if that matters. So, where does "Leave no Trace" intersect improving the fishability of a stream?

    I wound up not altering the hole, because I value exploring natural environments and prefer that over altered environments. I wouldn't fault anyone for making the opposite choice, though. A good friend of mine carries a saw for that express purchase when he fishes.

    I'm curious to hear opinions on this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan's U.P.
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    2,356

    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    I'd leave it as it is. It just wouldn't be the same if someone cut out a dead fall and it'd feel different. Kind of like cheating on a exam I guess.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pocono Lake , Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,173

    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    Dead is dead , do what you gotta do! Alive leave it be! Pretty simple!
    "I was born to fish" Lee Wulff
    "There's more B.S. in fly fishing then there is in a Kansas feedlot." Lefty Kreh
    " It ain't over till it's over." Yogi Berra
    "Your not old,you've simply acquired a patina." Swirlchaser

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    Obstacles are part of the game, leave it. Mother nature puts things where she wants and it's not our place to disturb them just to make things easier for us.

    It's not our house, so don't rearrange the furniture.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    sycamore, illinois
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    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    where i grew up in alaska there was, and still is, a great system of hiking trails. great trails that covered hundreds of miles through a multitude of lanscapes.
    every spring a group of volunteers and park rangers would work through the entire system clearing deadfall and other obstructions.
    nothing bad never came out of that
    so i say if its an old dead peace of wood not doing anybody any good, move it.


    casey


    ARFE

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    On a trout stream/Suburban Pittsburgh
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    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    I'll leave the ethics to someone else but my opinion is leave it as it is. It will be a new challenge for you while fishing.

    There are a couple of streams I fish that have had incredibly large deadfall on them that have been moved several hundred yards down the water by high water. At some point, that deadfall will get moved and you'll have access to the hole again as you had. When it gets washed, it might even help create another spot for you to fish. I enjoy going back to streams and paying attention to how far known objects have been flushed into the system.
    ~*~Leave only your footprints~*~

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    sycamore, illinois
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    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybo41 View Post
    I'll leave the ethics to someone else but my opinion is leave it as it is. It will be a new challenge for you while fishing.

    There are a couple of streams I fish that have had incredibly large deadfall on them that have been moved several hundred yards down the water by high water. At some point, that deadfall will get moved and you'll have access to the hole again as you had. When it gets washed, it might even help create another spot for you to fish. I enjoy going back to streams and paying attention to how far known objects have been flushed into the system.

    good point jb.
    i remember a decent hole i used to fish that was transformed into a magnificent hole after a 60 ft. cottonwood fell about 5 feet parallalel
    to the opposite bank.
    mother nature at her finest

    i guess my previous post was more about getting to the stream and not the stream itself.


    casey


    ARFE

  8. #8

    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    The Lord gave us stewardship over the land, for me this means preserving the natural order he set in motion and repairing wherever possible that which we have harmed. The deadfall represents an opportunity to learn a new casting technique, thus using our gift of wisdom to practice good stewardship.

    Dave
    I was going fly fishing until my wife suggested it, now I can't tell who is outsmarting who!

    Being "one with nature" requires a knowledge of what animals are living nearby and a weapon of sufficient magnitude to give you at minimum an equal chance of survival. No one has an invisible aura that animals can detect and sense your good intentions.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

    Usually I would leave it alone however if it really needed moving,removing I would do so/have done in The Past especially if lots of junk from it was Falling into The Water & discolouring it &/or filling up The Hole,also if it's Toxic..
    Brian.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
    Posts
    10,825

    Default A true story, and on point for the Thread opener.

    Many, many years back a true story, but it makes the point. Think "Mill Creek."

    A Japanese group wanted to develop a huge subdivision (golf course included) north of Seattle (Mill Creek to put a name to it). Working a 'deal' (straight forward from day one) with Rainier Bank. Doing what I did in at the time it was my job to go over the whole project, viable? Changes? Etc.

    Candidly, the whole layout was an eye opener. From the first pen stroke to the end these folks were dead on. At that time, this was a major big bucks deal; like serious, serious money going on the line.

    The 'Deal Clincher?'

    One of the (younger Japanese) fellows asked me: 'Do you have fish here?'

    Question took me right out of the blue. Answer was yes, and here's (thumbnail) of what we have in the way of Adrodomdus, (never could remember how to spell that fricking word ) etc.

    'May we go look?'

    Drove up with rolls of plans on the back seat of my car and walked the ground. Comment about this, a change to think about there, etc. Towards the end we got to what would be the entrance area of this (HUGE) development and I just did an "Dear God!"

    Total Dead End. Nothing could get by that short of having wings.

    'How we fix?'

    My first thought was 'He's kidding?'

    Did a 'Well, this and that, because that will do that, etc.

    Pulls out his camera and shoots a roll of film. Next day we're looking at 8x10 'clossies' and going over them with felt marker pens. Two days later we have the 'head guy,' or one of them from the Washington State Game Dept (and there was a County Guy of some sort) sitting around a coffee table.

    State/County Guys go over all the permits, yada-yada (HUMUGUS!!) that you need to go through to ... bla-bla.

    'If you do the work do you need all these permits?'

    Eye-balls left and right ... and a 'soft no.'

    'I don't care about cost; Start work in less than 60 days and Mr. Evans will reimburse you for your efforts.' He looks at me, I look at him and a nod.

    Huge back hoe's ripping the **** out this blockage in about 45 days; job with rip-rap, et. al. was done in about 120. Mill creek has tonnes of spawning bed gravel poured into same, etc., and etc.

    Got a call about 3 months later asking 'Where's our payment!!!!!:mad:'

    Lost my temper: "You fuxking Idiot's haven't sent me the FUXKING BILLl!!! Cheque book is on my desk."

    Whole thing cost close to a million dollars when a 'Million was real money.'

    They did and a Cashier's Check was cut the same day.

    But back to today; Salmon and Steelhead spawned in the middle of the Golf Course. I hope all that is properly maintained; no idea.

    End game of all the above? You pull out what you must and leave the rest. All that 'stuff' is the fry nursery.

    fae
    When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. - Billy Graham"

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