I'm so tired of getting ripped off!

[rickf]

First, let me qualify this by saying that I fish with a Orvis Helios (a $800 rod) and a Orvis Large Arbor reel ($200) and I have a "top shelf" pontoon and waders? I've lost my mind and pay "big bucks" for my fly stuff!

But ........ I picked up a few items at WalMart today:

Line Snippers - WalMart $3.56 (Orvis is $12.95 or $19.95, and Orvis doesn't have the eye opener peg?)

Leader 5X - WalMart $1.96 (Orvis is $4.25 ..... for the cheapest)

Tippet spool - WalMart $1.96 (Orvis is $4.50 .... also for the cheapest, I always used to get the Frog Hair Flouro for $20)

I realize that the WalMart stuff is made in China, but so are all the things in fly shops! And the China quality is so much better than the junk we make in the US!

I get Orvis, Cabelas, Gander Mountain, and Bass Pro catalogs almost every week ....... but from here on out, I'm a WalMart boy!

I used to like to support the local fly shops, but most have gone out of business and they never had what I wanted to buy anyway!

Strange Days are Here!

 

[newby]

And the China quality is so much better than the junk we make in the US!

You had me until here.

 

[rickf]

You had me until here.

If one of those China young girls made something bad ....... they would get their hands chopped off or maybe beat with a whip!

Here, in America, we have fat lazy stupid workers who will spit in your food if they get the chance!

I know that Orvis has "home based" craftsmen who make the world's best rods (but for a premium price) I don't mind ........ my Helios is wonderful, and I'm glad the builder made a good wage while making it!


Edit: Please disregard what I said about Orvis!

Four times I broke my Superfine 1wt, and Orvis fixed it for free with no questions asked. It's the best customer service in the world! I was just ranting about the cheap clippers in WalMart?

I love my Helios ........ I would have gladly paid $1000 for that rod!

Sorry for the rant ....... it's late. I caught 100 big Bluegills today with my Orvis stuff ...... no prob?
What I was complaining about is: All the clippers are made in China (probably the same factory) but Orvis charges four times as much as WalMart!

 

[newby]

Orvis charges for the name that's for sure. No doubt some of their products are better values than others. I just wish my local walmart had fly fishing things period.

 

[Ard]

I started using a pair of nippers bought at a drug store years ago. I did this because I kept losing the Orvis nippers and the Zinger that they were attached to. The zingers either had clips or pin clasps to attach to jacket. I think I had lost 4 of them at a total of around 100 dollars for the zinger & nipper combo's. The 3.99 stainless steel jobs from Walgreen's have a black cotton neck lanyard that you wear and let the nipper hang either inside or out of fishing jacket.

3 or 4 years running and I haven't lost the tool and it's still sharp. It's not as 'cool' as the one with the Orvis logo on the zinger but I haven't lost it either.

I'm happy with some things regardless who made them or where.

Ard

 

[noreaster]

I try to use the local fly shop for as much as possible. But the owner has told me me that its hard to make any real money with fly tying supplies. He makes all his money selling guns and ammo and spin fishing tackle, which is sold at a premium. So he rarely has the stuff I want in stock. It doesn't seem to be a priority when it comes to fly tying supplies. So I have to scrounge stuff where ever I can find it. This includes Walmart, Canadian Tire, Fabricville, Micheal's Craft Store, Valu Village, Flea market, Drug stores, and anywhere else. I don't have the luxury of an Orvis or Cabela's or Bass Pro's within a thousand miles of me. So it's kinda like McGyver'ing around here. Have to stay creative and industrious. If it works its good for me.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I got a pair of Walmart 'nippers'...wasn't worth throwing away.

 

[Eddie O'Neill]

We should always get value for our money.
Buy cheap, buy twice

 

[Liphookedau]

rickf.
I know what you are saying everything over here is nearly Double are in The States in some cases More.
I have bought Flylines in The US mainly on Ebay from about $30 to $60 for Top Quality Lines & they are around $100 over here.
We Like The US are being Flooded with Cheap Chinese Rubbish also lots are selling Chinese Made Reels Double The Price what They can be bought for in China.
I know I bought one off Ebay from The UK & paid $50 AD then I Googled The Maker's name & found where I could buy it for $22 AD.
Also Fly Tying Materials I Paid $2.25 for 15 m Spool of Tinsel then at Christmas I bought Exactly the same Tinsel in Christmas Decorations & for $2 I ended up with enough to last me a Lifetime.
Brian

 

[stenacron]

And the China quality is so much better than the junk we make in the US!

I'm going to assume that you are a very young man, possibly a guy that just took his first economics class and now has it ALL FIGURED OUT!

Chinese manufacturing is NOT better quality that what we manufacture here in the US, in fact it is EXACTLY the opposite. China offers cheap labor, and that is their ONLY value driver. Can China manufacture to Western standards? YES – provided that a fully staffed Quality Assurance team is imported to oversee the production on a weekly (sometimes daily) basis. And these folks want to live a Western lifestyle while they're stranded there as well. This all costs $$$ yes, but sadly all those costs in addition to ocean freight still allows companies to lower their costs and it all comes down to the cost of labor.

The reason I say you must be a youngster, is because it seems like you can't remember when the quality of normal household items was a lot better. Decades of Chinese (and other LCC) sourcing has lowered our expectations. US companies have been forced to cut corners and try to lower their costs to compete. US companies seem to be falling into this "niche" market for people that want to pay more for higher quality… and there is nothing wrong with that last part by the way.

If one of those China young girls made something bad ....... they would get their hands chopped off or maybe beat with a whip!

I don't know a polite way of saying that this statement is simply a load of ****. They may be severely over-worked and underpaid by global standards, but tortured? Sounds like a tall tale (and I'm sure there are dozens if not hundreds of members on this site that have spent time in China on business that will tell you the same).

Here, in America, we have fat lazy stupid workers who will spit in your food if they get the chance!

OK, I'm all for freedom of speech and all (something you WOULD NOT HAVE IN CHINA by the way). But this is beyond insulting, way off base… a broad-stroked, ill-advised opinion, and quite frankly, you owe a huge apology to EVERYONE on this board that works for a living in the United States of America.

…and a Orvis Large Arbor reel ($200)…

And for a communist-sympathizer to complain about spending a few bucks on nippers that will last a few years, and then drop two (2) bills on "arguably" the least concerning piece of equipment on a fly rod set-up? You could have spent less than $50 on a reel and had the best gold-plated nippers on the planet!

 

[itchmesir]

If this guy thinks $12 is expensive for a pair of nippers... He better never find out able Able nippers... Probably have an aneurism

 

[asjenkin]

Too funny. There is a fly fishing tax we are all paying. The problem
Is we accept it and don't demand better longer lasting heirloom type pieces when we pay heirloom type prices. I do my best to not even go to Walmart or buy anything made in china. I wish we could go back in time to the type of quality manufacturing seen from the turn of the century until about the 70's. But until someone in the USA starts giving a ship and quits looking for a hand out nothing is going to get better. Us companies further the problem by try to make shareholders happy by pushing out costs and making supernormal profits all for short term gain. I buy things things once maintain them and keep them forever or try to at least.

 

[amertens]

I have never understood this concept.

Walmart hires many employees for extremely low wages so that it can work each of them 39 hours a week to do it at the cheapest, no benefit, level possible. Low labor costs and cheaper lower quality products is how they save you that nickel your *****ing about. While this is happening they are taking the employment market of your community and lowering average salaries and basically slowing the economy for the area. And then since someone who sees that they can save a dollar on a bottle of laundry soap they say well the other store has been ripping me off for years and quits going to that family run business that has been in your community for years, and it goes under.

Now that the small family run store is out of business they had to go take this low paying Walmart job, if they have found any job at all, and now they can't afford the products or services that you sell for work.

Congratulations you just shot yourself in the foot.

I'm not a good writer or speaker so I hope that made sense and I got the point across. For me, I work hard for my money and I CHOOSE (great part about living here is you get to choose) to buy American made stuff. I'll pay ten times to get something that was made or sold by a local small business over something I can order from china. And I will pay another ten times for good customer service.

My next set of nippers will be Abel's. Even if I had to save for three months just to buy nippers.

 

[random user]

As long as people are so willing to buy 'cheap', 'inexpensive quality' will continue to a very elusive thing. Every producer can produce cheap, quality and high quality products. End result is a cost equation of what they perceive as the price point where the target market with cease purchasing their product / profit needed to be made.

I'm one of those people who will not buy something with a logo on it unless there is no available option.

Simple 21st century fact: Cheap is cheap regardless of the country of origin. Quality costs, and quality with a proof mark (logo) cost more, and quality with a proof mark (logo) with a lot of market development and advertising and customer service cost proportionally more.

 

[asjenkin]

Make sure not to put those nippers on an Orvis zinger. Those things suck and are probably made in china soon to be sold at Walmart in the officially licensed "green mountain" off brand of orvis. Sneaky bastar@$.

 

[silver creek]

Goodness gracious. Getting on my soap box now.

It's a free country, thank goodness. When it's your money, you can choose to buy what ever where ever you want, as long as it is legal. When it's my money, allow me the privilege of doing the same.

Folks love bashing Walmart but they provide inexpensive goods that increase the standard of living for the public they serve. The fact is that for every dollar that a family saves by shopping at Walmart, it is another dollar they can spend on food or books for their children. Walmart bashers never consider that fact, do they?

I read an economic study some where that Walmart lowers the prices on consumer goods by about 5% on average. That lowers the overall inflation rate of the consumer price index. They put downward pressure on everyone. If you are a consumer, that is great news. But if you are a competitor, that is bad news.

Here's a study that shows a new Walmart Supercenter forces other grocery stores to lower their prices. Before Walmart Supercenters that sell groceries, large grocery store used their pricing power to increase their % profit by over 50% over a 10 year period. Every consumer benefits when a Walmart opens, even if you don't shop at a Walmart.

http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/26506/1/32010173.pdf

"Over the ten-year period from 1991 to 2001 margins increased in supermarkets as the price of food sold at supermarkets grew at approximately twice the rate of the Producer Price Index (PPI) for food. Over this period the PPI for finished food increased by 13.9 percent while the CPI for food at home increased by 27.7 percent. Profit margins for supermarkets also increased over the same time period, with Kroger’s operating profit margin growing from 3.3 percent to 4.7 percent and Safeway’s operating profit margin growing from 3.5 percent to 7.9 percent.

Various studies have demonstrated that food items at WalMart are 8 to 27 percent lower priced than at the large supermarket chains, even after discounts for loyalty card and other special promotions are taken into account. After entry by Wal-Mart, conventional supermarkets typically decrease their prices (or do not increase them as much as in non-Wal-Mart markets) because of the increased competition."

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c5076.pdf

Folks, there is no free lunch. I would bet that the same folks that complain about Walmart also complain about the overall cost of living. Here's a news flash. The price you pay for goods is the cost of living. Competition is the American way.

As the above economic study shows, without Walmart or a store like Walmart, life would be more expensive in the USA. To see the life without a Walmart, consider what is happening with air travel prices and service as there are fewer airlines. Now consider that prospect with something that is as basic as food and clothing.

http://theunbrokenwindow.com/old_site/11-03-05_walmart.pdf

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/mea/contest/2006papers/peloquin.pdf

BTW, I did ace my economics class at Stanford. We cannot choose what we like about the free market (better and cheaper products) and then complain about the negative results that affect us personally. If they are competing within the law, it is their right to do so.

Getting off my soap box now.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I know nothing about world economics. I just know my nippers sucked. I buy lots of stuff at Walmart,,food , clothes etc. But no more nippers. That's NOT saying I'm in the market for a pair of Abel's ! I did buy a pair of nippers at Sportman's Warehouse with a large thumb lever and love them things. I'm pretty sure, without looking, that they are Chinese too.

Silver does have a point. Imagine if United Airlines made nippers ! Probably have us all scurrying for a pair of Abel's LOL

 

[rockthief]

nippers = fingernail clippers


OP much of your post is a load of ****. Perhaps you are young or posted while over-imbibing or maybe both. Local fly shops are the way to go. I will gladly pay more at one of them so I can support the culture.

 

[rickf]

Silver,

You make several good points! You made the case without getting the PAFF site members too mad at you. LOL

It seems to me that everytime a WalMart arrives in a new town, the rich business owners try to stop them while the working middle class can't wait to shop there!

PS - I apologize to the "American Workers" ...... I didn't really mean they are all fat, stupid, and lazy! I was trying to make a point about labor cost? My Helios was made by a American Craftsman and I'll keep that rod for the rest of my life! ...... unless they move the operation offshore and make the same Helios for under $100?

 

[nick k]

The problem is that buying anything SPECIFICALLY designed and labelled for fly fishing means it costs 5x more. Try shopping at your local craft store next time. Orvis sells small 4inch bricks of tying foam for about $2.50. I get printer paper sized sheets at the craft store by me for $.50 and they come in lots of colors. You can also get feathers and chenille there. Lots of other places have the same tools and materials we use for fly fishing but they aren't labelled for the sport so they are dirt cheap. For instance, check out this site for fly boxes. Nippers? You can grab them for super cheap at stores like CVS. If you get a regular toenail pair the file can even act as a hook hone.

To summarize, listing something as "for fly fishing" dramatically increases its price. Go to your local craft and convenience stores and you can find lots of the same tools/materials for a fraction of the price because its for the general populous.