Big Box Stores

flyfishusa

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I personally don't shop at Walmart, Target, Cabela's, Bass Pro or even Fred Meyers! I would rather lose my business to another shop than to the almighty dollar! We have based our business on service and quality since we opened our doors in 1981. We continued that tradition in 1997 with flyfishusa.com. I use the local grocery store, farmers market (when in season), and local meat market for my food. I use the local hardware store for most tools and repairs (they are right next door) I know it's tough when the big boxes have amazing deals like a complete fly fishing outfit for $100, or a LCD TV for $129. Personally I believe that it's because of these kinds of stores that this country is in such dire straights economically.

Derek M Bachmann
Director of Marketing
 

jbird

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Hmmmm. This is a bit like the hatchery debate. Once theyve taken hold, a system relies on them, at the expense of the wild population. It reaches a point where its too late to reverse it. The Trinity river is a perfect example. In theory, I agree with you. In reality, I dont have the kind of money to shop like that. In a perfect world, I would shop at the mom and pop stores, and sometimes I do, but I have to look out for my finances first.

We moved to the midwest after a lifetime on the west coast. The thing I miss almost as much as the fishing is my Fred Meyer. There isnt anything out here even close to Freddy's! we go back west 3-5 times a year and we go to Freddys whether we need something or not. We just walk in the doors and say "Mmmmmmmmm... Freddy's!"
 

hunter1

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I have awally world 1 mile from me, I seldom ever go in there.Besides not having the proper equipment for fly fishing , try to find someone with knowledge to a beginner. I wait and use the local fly or bait and tacke store were i fish weather rivers or beaches.I agree with you wally world dosn't care about it's workers well being, or the community there in. Sad part is i have a local tackl shop 1/4 mile fro me but they are the meanest and arogant people to deal with. So i shop were i fish.
 

fq13

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We used to have two really nice fly shops locally. One downtown, one about 15 minutes away. They were full service; knowledgeable folks, casting lessons, tying lessons etc. Their only faults were that they carried too much high end gear at the expense of entry level and mid-range stuff (not everybody is going to buy a Sage).Then Gander Mountain came to town. Within 4 years they were gone. Now, Gander has cut its fly stuff to almost zero. Almost no rods, damn few flies and virtually no tying stuff, plus the staff are clueless. And we are screwed. I have to buy everything online and I live in a decent sized city on the freaking coast.This is what happens when you don't support a good local shop.
 

random user

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I am a big fan of inexpensive, but I hate cheap. I stay out of Wally World, le Tar-jha, etc., unless there is no available option. Cabellea's I had been ordering from, from the time it was a paper catalog. Last winter they botched a gortex shell and fleece liner I ordered for my mom. after 3 weeks of dealing with customer service my mom asked me to stop "because don't want to be a bother". Bass Pro I see as a positive thing in a community.

When I think "small business", I don't thing about it having share holders or a Director of Marketing. I try to buy everything from humans locally. When that doesn't work I go for humans with web sites.
 

Rip Tide

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It's not anything new.
I've always gotten the majority of my gear from catalogs or the "big box" of it's time, Sears & Roebuck.
Herter's and LLBean mostly and later Hook&Hackle and Cabelas

I don't often feel welcome in a fly shop. I guess that I don't look the part. Maybe I smell.
Your general bait and tackle shops don't expect you to drop a grand just for walking in the door and often they're closet fly fishermen themselves and happy to share some intel.

I go to W*lmart too. Just for the pharmacy. $4 prescriptions. You'd be crazy not to.
 

mikel

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I use the local grocery store, farmers market (when in season), and local meat market for my food. I use the local hardware store for most tools and repairs (they are right next door) I know it's tough when the big boxes have amazing deals like a complete fly fishing outfit for $100, or a LCD TV for $129. Personally I believe that it's because of these kinds of stores that this country is in such dire straights economically.
Uh, I understand you're in marketing, so, uh...Do you shop on line?

What's the philosophic difference between walking into a Walmart vs buying discounted merchandise on line? Where does your business model support the idea of shopping local and supporting the "local fly shop?"

Hey, you started the thread, although I don't see why...
 

bigjim5589

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Flyfishusa, congratulations on surviving for so many years in this business! That to me says you folks are doing things correctly & taking care of your customers! It's a tough business to be in to begin with. I had a mail order/internet fly business for 15 years. Didn't have a brick & mortar store, couldn't afford it, but managed to keep it going for those years just primarily selling flies I tied & tying materials. Unfortunately I never made much money doing it, it was more a labor of love because I enjoyed doing it. I worked a full time job too through most of those years. I would do it again however!

As far as the big box stores, most did not start out as big box stores. They flourished & grew from small businesses, something that most businesses strive to attain. I've read the Cabela Bros started by tying flies at a kitchen table & selling them. Johnny Morris started Bass Pro Shops. He was one of the very first tournament anglers when Ray Scott started BASS & saw the value in selling gear to tournament & weekend bass anglers. Walmart also started as a single store.

I also buy most things online, and I'm conscientious of deals & bargains, as my finances are limited. But I also don't mind buying from small businesses when I can. We no longer have any fly shops nearby, and only one full service tackle shop that has much in the way of fly fishing or tying items. I don't buy much from them, as I don't need much of what they carry, but will go there when I need something fast, even though their prices are generally a bit higher than I can find online. They are good folks too & a past customer when I was tying flies commercially so that makes it easier to go there & deal with them for me.

For anything my wife & I need that is not fishing related, that's her dept. and I let her handle it however she needs to stretch the money we make as best she can.
 

Ard

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---------- Post added at 07:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------

hey, you started the thread, although i don't see why...
Hi Mike,

I believe the thread was started because the poster invested as a business member and is trying to promote the idea of doing business with small shops vs. mega sporting goods retailers.

I get about 99.9% of my supplies from Mountain View Sports in Anchorage, I'm talking hooks and other materials for tying & such. My rods are now coming from a manufacturer who is (hopefully) becoming a sponsor of my little business. So............I do shop at a Three Bears for most grocery related items and very seldom at Wal Mart or Freddy's.

We have some small businesses in Wasilla where we go for outdoor wear also, I like to think we help to pay the bills in them.

Ard
 

jbird

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Hey, you started the thread, although I don't see why...
He's affiliated with the FlyFishing Shop in Oregon. (Pictured in his post) He is pointing out how legitimate small, specialty businesses are being put out in the cold by the big box stores. Theres no doubt he's feeling the strain that he's posting about and I dont blame him. Its a tough spot. These guys have to mark their products up to unaffordable to stay open, but this economy has the everyday Joe looking for good prices. Its a tough spot to be sure. Not to mention fly fishing is a somewhat elite endeavor with prices to match.
 

mikel

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Hi Mike,

I believe the thread was started because the poster invested as a business member and is trying to promote the idea of doing business with small shops vs. mega sporting goods retailers.
Well, unless he thinks he's somehow "different" than other web shops, he made a great argument for not using his store. There's no difference between buying on line from Cabelas/Bass Pro vs his online shop.

I've been in the shop in Welches a couple of times and use the online store myself...but suggesting that buying online from them is different than walking into a Walmart (rather than shopping at my local fly shop) is wrong.
 

flyfishusa

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When I think "small business", I don't thing about it having share holders or a Director of Marketing. I try to buy everything from humans locally. When that doesn't work I go for humans with web sites.
We have 10 employees and 4 of us are family, would you consider this a small business? We started with 10 employees and 8 of them were family(Dad, Mom and us 6 kids).

---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

Uh, I understand you're in marketing, so, uh...Do you shop on line?

What's the philosophic difference between walking into a Walmart vs buying discounted merchandise on line? Where does your business model support the idea of shopping local and supporting the "local fly shop?"

Hey, you started the thread, although I don't see why...
I simply state that I shop local when I can, and yes I shop online. But I'm one of those guys that always calls the place first. We get a lot of that type of shopping. We are online to extend our service to those who cannot get it from a local fly shop. We treat you the same online as we would in our store.

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------

Well, unless he thinks he's somehow "different" than other web shops, he made a great argument for not using his store. There's no difference between buying on line from Cabelas/Bass Pro vs his online shop.

I've been in the shop in Welches a couple of times and use the online store myself...but suggesting that buying online from them is different than walking into a Walmart (rather than shopping at my local fly shop) is wrong.
I was not suggesting to buy from us instead of buying from your local shop. I was suggesting to buy from small businesses.
 

mikel

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We are online to extend our service to those who cannot get it from a local fly shop.
I like and respect you, your family and your business. You are online, here, advertising specials with low prices designed to take business from local fly shops. There is nothing illegal or unsavory about that, but to maintain that your business is somehow different than dealing with any other web retailer doesn't fly with me.

I apologize to the rest of the community here....I'll shut up.
 

Ard

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It would be remiss if I didn't add that Cabela's among other large retailers are also sponsors of the forum here and we greatly appreciate their support. I believe that the use of funds by anglers is perhaps a personal choice that is also driven by pricing and availability.

Consider that an attempt at covering myself or in other words; maybe I should leave this one alone ;)
 

rockriver

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I only wish we had had a fly shop up here. WalMart and Gander are a joke at best. I order my supplies from shops downstate and a well known one in Denver (Arvada).
 

jbird

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I only wish we had had a fly shop up here. WalMart and Gander are a joke at best. I order my supplies from shops downstate and a well known one in Denver (Arvada).
Yep! I dont have a flyshop within 2 hours in any direction. This sucks as I am the guy who pulls every bucktail off the rack, pull it out of the bag, fan the fibers with my thumb, then choose. lol Cant do that online. That is why I shop at flyshops when I'm near one. There was a thread a while ago about unfriendly staff at fly shops. That really sucks when youve taveled a long ways to a flyshop. I simply wont give arrogant shop staff my business.

I also dont think fly shops and Target/walmart/freddys is a fair compaison. fly shops are specialty services. Thats why they can get away with their mark-up. All I can say is, if you are a small specialty business trying to survive today, you better bite your tongue and be rediculously nice to your customers. make them feel like kings and queens :) Customer service opens wallets.
 

ia_trouter

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I can't take an across the board direction on everything I buy. I support small biz when I can. I can and do pay a small premium to keep them around. But I can't pay an extra 100 bucks for the exact same appliances, huge premiums on my groceries, lumber etc. The horse is long out of the barn on some industries.

I have no choice but go online for my flyfishing gear. Cabelas has been good to me but I I look for small online shops when I can. Allen Flyfishing gives away good hooks, so I remember that and buy something more profitable from them next time, even if they are maybe a tad higher priced as I know they can't give away everything.
 

trout trekker

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Hi flyfishusa,

I have been an online customer of yours ( although that was quite a while back ) and doing business with this shop was a pleasure and their website has more product info available than most.
I do think that adding the “ local “ component to your position dilutes or derails your message. To me, anytime an online retailer interjects the " local " aspect, it comes across as being disingenuous.

I’m no spring chicken, back when I started shopping with Cabela’s, Gander Mountain and a few others, they were all small businesses ( SBA guidelines or not ) and offered products that I couldn’t hope to find within a hundred miles of my rural American home on the river.

They provided my family with a solid blend of service and products at fair prices. As my life advanced and we moved from one place to the next, the one constant that I could count on for outdoor gear was the latest Cabela’s catalog that would inevitably show up in our mail box. In effect, they were always my local fly and tackle shop - as often was the case, no local fishing, camping or water sports stores existed. The fact that some of those businesses, like Cabela’s were successful and grew to become what they are today all points to achieving part of the American dream.

Let’s not overlook the customer loyalty aspect of this discussion.
Here’s the rub, as your business blossoms and grows, becoming ever larger and more successful, how would you perceive the situation then, if your customer base turned their backs on you, to seek out an upstart business that really needs their monetary support more than your - then bustling operation?
If you’d like them to stay true to your store, then how is that any different than long time customers of Cabela’s staying true to Cabela’s?

As for Wal-Mart they too serve a very real need in some communities . Not in all communities to be sure, but in this largely rural ag driven community, they help in keeping thousands of the local ag workers families afloat.

With respect for all, TT
 

flyfishusa

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Hi flyfishusa,

I have been an online customer of yours ( although that was quite a while back ) and doing business with this shop was a pleasure and their website has more product info available than most.
I do think that adding the “ local “ component to your position dilutes or derails your message. To me, anytime an online retailer interjects the " local " aspect, it comes across as being disingenuous.

I’m no spring chicken, back when I started shopping with Cabela’s, Gander Mountain and a few others, they were all small businesses ( SBA guidelines or not ) and offered products that I couldn’t hope to find within a hundred miles of my rural American home on the river.

They provided my family with a solid blend of service and products at fair prices. As my life advanced and we moved from one place to the next, the one constant that I could count on for outdoor gear was the latest Cabela’s catalog that would inevitably show up in our mail box. In effect, they were always my local fly and tackle shop - as often was the case, no local fishing, camping or water sports stores existed. The fact that some of those businesses, like Cabela’s were successful and grew to become what they are today all points to achieving part of the American dream.

Let’s not overlook the customer loyalty aspect of this discussion.
Here’s the rub, as your business blossoms and grows, becoming ever larger and more successful, how would you perceive the situation then, if your customer base turned their backs on you, to seek out an upstart business that really needs their monetary support more than your - then bustling operation?
If you’d like them to stay true to your store, then how is that any different than long time customers of Cabela’s staying true to Cabela’s?

As for Wal-Mart they too serve a very real need in some communities . Not in all communities to be sure, but in this largely rural ag driven community, they help in keeping thousands of the local ag workers families afloat.

With respect for all, TT
I digress, I may have jumped the gun on Cabela's and Bass Pro. Let me apologize for that. I can admit to my mistakes and sometimes it is hard to compete with the "Big Boxes". I don't blame anyone for shopping at any of the aforementioned businesses as sometimes these are the only ones available to them. I have seen wonderful businesses that have been in business for 50+ years fall because of the deep pockets of Large corporations and it sickens me. These are my own personal views and should be taken that way alone. If I have offended anyone I apologize, it was not my intention.
 
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