Same flies for same stretch of river year after year?

[skrap]

Being new to the game I hear the phrase "match the hatch". I understand the term and it's logical. Throw what "bugs" are on the menu any given month.

I was on a Montana fly shops website and they have a list of dates broken out into varying lengths of weeks from early Spring to late Fall. Within these date they have recommended what flies tend to have success during these given time periods. Seems as they are sort of "matching the hatch" for the bugs they have in their region, I assume.

My question is: Will this recommendation of flies typically be similar from year to year for the same time frames? Will what they state that has been working, say in Aug 2013, most likely be the same/similar fly recommended for Aug 2014?

I ask this because I already have a cabin reserved for 2014 to the Madison River. Got a place right on the water. I'm trying to plan ahead with some of my purchases for the trip (because this hobby is so $$$$$$) and want to order some flies for three fisherman before hand. also because our cabins is about 30 miles outside of town where these recommended flies are sold.
Thanks

 

[MoscaPescador]

Simple answer: yes.

Keep in mind that conditions can make hatches early or late. Usually it has to deal with weather and water flows.

Dennis

 

[siege]

The " standards " usually work at certain times and seasons, because nature is fairly consistent year after year. However, climate changes will affect hatches. A dry year, a cool spring, early thaw, high runoff, etc will have a dramatic effect on what flies you need to carry to match the hatch. My suggestion would be to order what usually works for when you will be there, plus what would be used a few weeks before and after that timeframe to compensate for Mother Nature's tantrums.
It also seems like every local shop has a few flies " du jour " that they think will be the new hot item for the season. Talk to a shop or guide service in the area. Ask the guys here on the forum who fish the area what works for them, and you can get a quick idea of what you need. Do your homework now, and have a great trip later !
P.S. Don't forget the universal patterns, like an assortment of Whooly Buggers and some flies you already use and have confidence in.

 

[fq13]

Good advice given above. The "usually" rule applies. Throw in a drought or a heavy runoff and all bets are off. Me, If you don't tie I'd hit Cabelas or some place like it and stock up on the usual suspects. Buggers, bead head prince and pheasant tails, Copper Johns, parachute Adams and elk hair caddis, as well as some stone fly nymphs and a few ant and beetle patterns. All between 16 and 12 as your defaults, and then match the hatch according to what you hear when you get there.. Tell us when you're going and where you're going to fish on the Madison and I can be more specific. My best advice not knowing that? Use a small nymph under a dry and figure out what they're hitting. If its late summer try hoppers, if its fall go with streamers, but the classics work.

PS Try Madison River Outfitters in West Yellowstone. They're good folks and won't steer you wrong. Good guides as well.

 

[chechem]

As said above, PLUS don't forget that time of day matters too (e.g., terrestrials are more active later in the day, etc.).

 

[dhayden]

Also... the good news.. it's almost impossible to be more than 15 miles from a fly shop on the Upper Madison (assuming that's the one) - and since 287 is 70mph - you're always pretty close to something in case you forget

All the shops there will have the most common patterns and supplies

 

[silver creek]

Being new to the game I hear the phrase "match the hatch". I understand the term and it's logical. Throw what "bugs" are on the menu any given month.

I was on a Montana fly shops website and they have a list of dates broken out into varying lengths of weeks from early Spring to late Fall. Within these date they have recommended what flies tend to have success during these given time periods. Seems as they are sort of "matching the hatch" for the bugs they have in their region, I assume.

My question is: Will this recommendation of flies typically be similar from year to year for the same time frames? Will what they state that has been working, say in Aug 2013, most likely be the same/similar fly recommended for Aug 2014?


Thanks

There are several issues at play in your question.

The first issue is that you are a novice and I assume you have NEVER fished these waters. The second is that you are going by a list of recommended flies according to a certain fly shop a year in advance. The third is that the fly shop's fly pattern recommendations are based on a generalized hatch chart for an average year with average flows.

The other replies have addressed some of these issues and pointed out that things can vary with local river conditions and weather.

What has not been addressed is that aquatic insects prefer certain types of habitat, usually based on the river gradient and flows. For example, stoneflies are =found in faster water flows with a rocky bottom. Mayflies have three body types = clingers, crawlers, and burrowers that inhabit fast, moderate and slow flow portion of a river respectively. Caddis can be net builders and case builders.

What this means is that, although the hatch charts can be accurate, you need to be at the right kind of water at the right time for the flies to "match the hatch."

Another important issue that has not been mentioned is that the need to match the hatch ONLY occurs when the fish are feeding selectively on the hatch that needs to be matched. Most of the time the fish will be feeding opportunistically and the fish will take many types of flies if they are presented in a correctly in a natural manner.

My suggestion is to buy flies that will work in almost any situation and location and then go to the fly shop for specific patterns when you arrive. I would stock up on X-caddis, iris caddis, parachute and comparadun mayfly patterns, flashback pheasant tail nymphs, serendipities, prince nymphs, etc in the proper colors and sizes.

For example if the pale morning duns are going to be the mayfly that is hatching get the parachutes and comparaduns in the correct color and size for the pmds.

Then get flies that may needed for the time of year or for a specific hatch that is not matched by the general flies above. Hoppers, ants, beetles, tricos, and midges would be examples.

The flies above are general patterns that can be used all over the country and you can likely use them when you get home.

Then when you get to Montana, see what "killer" patterns the near by fly shop recommends.

 

[skrap]

Here is a little more detail as to my location we will be. Upper Madison and about 1/4 mile down stream from a bridge that has a place called WestFork Cabin Camp next to in on a map. Also, looks like it's about a mile North of the Grizzly Bar Restuarant.

Not sure how describe the actual water type/condition on that stretch of river. I assume shallow, moderate speed and rocky bottom. The home has about 1000'+ of riverfront so a lot of my fishing will be done there but also a little up and down the Madison too.

I spent about two weeks on the upper Madison some 30 years ago fishing and from what I remember we used mostly Adams, Royal Coachmans, Hairs Ears and Black Buggers, as well as one or two others that were productive and caught fish. I don't remember any of these being on the recommended list I refered to in my OP.

Lots of great info from everyone and some of it foreign to me that I need to study up on. Thanks all.

 

[silver creek]

Basically that section of the Madison River will be mainly riffle type water with caddis flies as the main insect but it can have stonefly hatches (Salmon flies and Golden Stones) at the right time of year. Mayflies will be the PMDs, green drakes and pink ladies (Epeorus).

You didn't say what time of year you will be there.

 

[dhayden]

You're about in the middle between these 2 shops:

http://www.beartoothflyfishing.com/
Kelly Galloup's Slide Inn Fly Fishing Lodge

Either one, will get you set up, or any of the shops in West Yellowstone or Ennis

If you have a general fly box with a decent selection of trout flies that work in state X, they'll work fine here too.

August.. not a prime time to be here...

Are you flying into Bozeman or ??, or driving?

 

[skrap]

Forgot. We will be there in mid August. 17-23.
Hayden, why is Aug not a good time to be there? What's the story?

Also, we are driving up from SoCal via SLC and Idaho Falls. Much cheaper for our family. The other part of family is flying into Bozeman. We will probably make a day trip to BZ for sightseeing.

When I was up in the area 30 years ago fishing we stayed at one of the little cabins at the Slide Inn and stopped in last Aug on our way through to Sun Valley. Forgot about that little shop. Thanks again fellas.

 

[planettrout]

Being new to the game I hear the phrase "match the hatch". I understand the term and it's logical. Throw what "bugs" are on the menu any given month.

I was on a Montana fly shops website and they have a list of dates broken out into varying lengths of weeks from early Spring to late Fall. Within these date they have recommended what flies tend to have success during these given time periods. Seems as they are sort of "matching the hatch" for the bugs they have in their region, I assume.

My question is: Will this recommendation of flies typically be similar from year to year for the same time frames? Will what they state that has been working, say in Aug 2013, most likely be the same/similar fly recommended for Aug 2014?

I ask this because I already have a cabin reserved for 2014 to the Madison River. Got a place right on the water. I'm trying to plan ahead with some of my purchases for the trip (because this hobby is so $$$$$$) and want to order some flies for three fisherman before hand. also because our cabins is about 30 miles outside of town where these recommended flies are sold.
Thanks

skrap,

This is the hatch chart from Blue Ribbon Flies:



Use this as a general guide. Like Silver said a lot depends on weather, flows, water temps. and bugs that sometimes don't appear in great numbers...There is plenty of time to do a healthy amount of research on the water near the cabin where you will be staying...

This is what the river looks like there...





My son Michael stayed in one of those cabins in August, 2012...

I will send some links to you by PM that may be perused at your leisure...you will have a blast !


PT/TB :thmbup:

 

[skrap]

Thanks PT. Look forward to the links.:thmbup:

 

[mtbusman]

I would like to suggest to you a variation on the approach others have given.

My advice would be to only buy a portion of your flies in advance. Instead, buy the bulk of your flies once you're in Montana, from shops near the Madison, who know it best.

I would probably wait until I arrive at the cabin, look around, survey what the river's like where you plan to fish. Then, I'd drive to a local fly shop nearby and pick up advice on how the river is fishing, especially the areas you plan to fish. Then I'd make fly purchases based on the actual fishing conditions at that time. An advantage to this approach is that it allows you to try some local patterns that are working well on the river. Another advantage is that it might prevent from spending more on flies than you need to -- in the event that many you bought ahead of time turned out to be ones you won't need.

 

[dhayden]

Forgot. We will be there in mid August. 17-23.

August - can get warm water and sometimes river closures - just watch the postings

Always best to have some backup plans, all of the shops can point you places that will be open, just in case

Bozeman - just gives you more options for fly shops if you're passing through it..

 

[silver creek]

There are strategies to combat warm water.

Take a thermometer to take water temperature reading.

Fish closer to the Quake Lake and fish the section between Hebgen and Quake. The coldest water will be nearest the outflow.

Fish early in the morning. This will be the time when the water has cooled down overnight.

West Yellowstone Montana Fly Fishing, Madison River

 

[Ard]

When I lived in North Central Pennsylvania I tried to keep my stream journals updated regarding every weeks fishing. Sometimes I made entries daily but generally at weeks end was when I updated things. On a year by year basis the notes regarding, time of day - weather - and especially the hatch encountered (if any) were valueable information to have.

There was one small stream in particular which had a profuse population of a mayfly who's imitation we know as the Female Beaverkill. These were a good size mayfly of about size 14 / 16 and they were unique in that they exhibited a very visible yellow egg sac at the rear of the abdomen (posterior) and I thought that was cool. I'd seen the pattern in books since I was young and had tied it but until I ran into the hatch I thought the fly was just another relic from a bygone era which I would never see for real. They were real and when on the water they made for some excellent dry fly fishing.

Among my fondest memories of that special place are those of a day when I sat upon streamside rocks with legs outstretched as I replaced one of my imitations. The fly I had been using had been frayed by countless wild brown trout and the occasional bbrookie who was still living in the neighborhood as the browns were expanding their range on that creek. As I looked down at my knot tying I caught some movement from the top of my eyes and raised my head. Now remember I said this was a small stream; there not more than 12' across the little channel were a pair (male & female) of Scarlet Tanagers!

Like many fly fishermen I had taken an interest in birds when I was very young and this bird, although rare, had been a favorite. This day, there they were a mated pair hopping and scampering about the rocks in a light drizzle plucking the 'Female Beaverkill Mayflies from the rubble. What a sight! I stayed still and took them in for as long as they stayed and once they disappeared back into the forest I resumed fishing but with a renewed sense of reality. That day, two things that were often considered almost as myths had appeared right before my eyes. The birds and the mayfly.

Having a record of that date ensured that I fished my little getaway for years to come at the proper time so that I could spend more of my life's time in the place where myths came to life. I never saw the Tanagers again but the Beaverkill came like clockwork year after year. I refined my tying of the pattern for size & color so that I could always 'match the hatch' during the witching hours.

Yeah, I have done hatch matching

Here is a Female Beaverkill pattern tied circa 1994 I think. I eventually went to a longer hook shank for them.


Not my picture but this is a male tanager, the female is olive drab with black wings.


Not my picture but this is the female;


I wish I had taken a photo myself, I had my old Minolta SRT 100 with me but knew that if I moved they would vanish so I just watched. The day happened before digital photography was mainstream, I was still shooting Kodachrome at the time

 

[Ard]

I added another bird picture; borrowed from a Google result to the post I made previously to show the female too.............

 

[fredaevans]

One of the 'beauties' of fishing the upper Rogue River (Steelhead) here in Oregon is you can use any fly you want .... as long as it's black. Only thing that changes is the size of the fly. Even our Salmon runs is a 'go black' thing with little exception.

fae

 

[karstopo]

I spent about two weeks on the upper Madison some 30 years ago fishing and from what I remember we used mostly Adams, Royal Coachmans, Hairs Ears and Black Buggers, as well as one or two others that were productive and caught fish. I don't remember any of these being on the recommended list I refered to in my OP.

Lots of great info from everyone and some of it foreign to me that I need to study up on. Thanks all.

Why not bring those flies that worked 30 years ago?