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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Green River, Wyoming
    Posts
    196

    Default Drop Shot Nymphing

    I have experimented with the Kelly Gallop version of drop shot nymphing. I love how it presents the flies when walk wade fishing, but larger fish over 18" or so seem to break off more easily. Anyone use this technique from a drift boat with an indicator? How does it compare to standard multi-nymph rigging techniques in terms of tangles and casting over 20 feet?

    thanks

    Dan
    "Calling Fly Fishing a hobby is like calling Brain Surgery a job."

    -Paul Schullery

  2. #2

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    I want to give credit to Larry Tullis.

    Larry Tullis introduced this technique in his 2001 book Nymphing Strategies and called it "bounce nymphing". Look at the bounce nymphing rig in the first illustration in Larry's book below and you will see that it is just like the "drop shot rig" in the second url.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=BF...mphing&f=false

    http://slideinn.com/blog/wp-content/...ng-diagram.jpg



    Larry then published an article in Fly Fisherman Magazine Feb, 2005 issue titled "Bounce Nymphing was republished on line in 2012.

    Bounce Nymphing - Fly Fisherman

    Kelly Galloup published an article in May, 2008 called Galloup's Nymph Rigs in which he described various rigs but it did not include the "drop shop rig."

    I can't say for sure who first tried this technique but I can say that Larry Tullis was the first one to publish it back in 2001. So I prefer to call it "bounce
    nymphing."
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Green River, Wyoming
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    I stand corrected. Bounce Nymphing it is! Hats off to Mr. Tullis and all he has done for our way of life on the water for sure.

    Out here bounce nymphing is popular on some waters and not on others. All I am curious about is if my clients will be able to lob these rigs without fouling it up more than happens with more standard rigs, from a drift boat and under an indicator. I thought perhaps someone here had used both techniques and had reflections/refinements/observations.

    I also would hate for my guys to break off good fish. This system has worked for me on smaller trout (<14 inches maybe) on the smaller streams I work on (the little bit I have used it) but I have had some larger fish break off and quickly went back to the standard rigging (big heavy bug and small flies trailing off behind).

    Ill certainly need to just try it more I guess but wondered what others have experienced.
    "Calling Fly Fishing a hobby is like calling Brain Surgery a job."

    -Paul Schullery

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  6. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Franklin, West Virginia
    Posts
    779

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    Drop shotting is fun stuff with a heavy keiryu rig too. My rigs run about 12 feet for this.

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  8. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    870

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    In one of Kelly's videos he made a comment about Czech nymphing saying "they were doing that 30 years ago" or something similar...
    No telling who was first.
    SaveBristolBay.org
    Outdoor Alliance
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should!

  9. #6

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    Quote Originally Posted by parsond View Post
    I stand corrected. Bounce Nymphing it is! Hats off to Mr. Tullis and all he has done for our way of life on the water for sure.

    Out here bounce nymphing is popular on some waters and not on others. All I am curious about is if my clients will be able to lob these rigs without fouling it up more than happens with more standard rigs, from a drift boat and under an indicator. I thought perhaps someone here had used both techniques and had reflections/refinements/observations.

    I also would hate for my guys to break off good fish. This system has worked for me on smaller trout (<14 inches maybe) on the smaller streams I work on (the little bit I have used it) but I have had some larger fish break off and quickly went back to the standard rigging (big heavy bug and small flies trailing off behind).

    Ill certainly need to just try it more I guess but wondered what others have experienced.
    When wading the key skill is the water tension cast. Let the rig drift downstream to load the rod and then lob upstream.

    From a drift boat which floats along with the rig, that would be difficult to do since the rig never gets way ahead of the boat UNLESS you row upstream to cause the water load.

    Breaking off rigs is has not been a problem for me. With a bounce nymphing rig, it is the shot on the bottom that quickly sinks the rig. Therefore there is no reason to use thin tippets or droppers since the weight is adjusted to quickly sink the rig. I normally use a 3X main leader with 5X to the split shot. The fly dropper can be 5X or 4X. Since everything is tied to a 3X main leader, any snag of the split shot will break off the 5X and any snag of the flies will also break off the 4X or 5X which saves the rest of the rig.

    Since most manufacturer’s 5X tippet now routinely test out at about 5 lb for regular tippet and Stroft 0.14 mm tippet is 0.0055 in. = 5.5 X is 5.95 lb test and Stroft 0.16 mm tippet is 0.0063 in. = 6.6 lb test, there is NO reason I can see for even a large trout to break off very often. NOTE that if you use Stroft for the dropper, you must also use Stroft for the leader or the tippet will be stronger than other brands leaders.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  11. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    Dan: Sent you a pm!
    Larry


  12. #8

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    Quote Originally Posted by darwin View Post
    In one of Kelly's videos he made a comment about Czech nymphing saying "they were doing that 30 years ago" or something similar...
    No telling who was first.
    I think what Kelly is probably referring to is "high sticking." Closer would be the type of nymphing that Joe Humphries does with the tuck cast as in this video.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhKgm4dztg[/ame]

    There is no doubt in my mind that Czech and the French Nymphing techniques evolved from Polish Nymphing. And that various forms of fly fishing are evolutionary. The question is when can we say that a certain technique began? In my mind Kelly is overstating his case when he says about Czech nymphing, "they were doing that 30 years ago.”

    Allow me to explain why I do not think either high sticking or the Humphries style is Czech or French nymphing. My understanding is Czech nymphing is not only the way you lift the rod while nymphing but is actually an entire system of specially tied nymphs and leader only nymphing.

    Remember that bead head nymphs were NOT invented 30, 25, or even 20 years ago. Joe is probably using a bead head nymph today but not 30 years ago. What was being used were really heavy lead wire wrapped large nymphs with high sticking mainly in large western rivers like the Madison or nymphing with full sinking lines using the Brooks method, or traditional lead wire weighted nymphs in the case of Joe Humphries.

    Czech nymphing is using light thin and long tippet and slim Czech nymphs so they sink fast and then leading the flies down stream with an in-line sighter. There is a special Anchor Fly that is heavier and sinks the rig. No fly line is used or if it is used it is a competition thin and light weight Czech nymphing line.

    The reason that no fly line is used is that fly line has mass, and mass has weight. The weight of the fly line IN THE ROD GUIDES pulls the leader back, and when it pulls the leader back, it straightens the leader. A straight leader in the Czech system reduces strike detection. So there is a slight sag that is required. The sighter is a length of (a contrasting red/yellow) high contrast opaque nylon that allows the angler to notice very subtile changes is in the curve or sag of the sighter that indicate very subtile takes. Some sighters even have fluorescent beads to make them more visible.



    Because thin and long leaders are used that have very little mass, special long and limber fly rods of 10 - 11 feet long were designed to cast these leaders and to protect the light tippets. There are enough specific differences in fly rods, no fly line, different leaders with sighters, and special anchor flies and Czech nymphs that no one can reasonably say that they are the same or that they were doing Czech nymphing 30 years ago.

    So the Czech nymphing is a system of slim high density nymphs fished with long thin leaders with an in-line sighter on special Czech nymphing rods. This is NOT what Joe Humphries is doing. He is nymphing with a traditional fly rod using a traditional leader with traditional flies. He is straight line nymphing but he is NOT Czech nymphing. The difference is that a skilled competitive Czech nympher similar to the skill level of Joe Humphries will detect more strikes because the method is more sensitive to subtle strikes. The deficiency is not Joe Humphries; it is that the Czech method is more sensitive to subtile strikes.

    So when someone says they are Czech nymphing, I get a very specific mental image. When they say they are high sticking or Humphries style nymphing, I get a different mental image.

    Read this and judge for yourself whether this technique was being used 30 years ago.

    Czech/French Nymphing Techniques
    Last edited by silver creek; 05-04-2016 at 08:39 AM.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  14. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Franklin, West Virginia
    Posts
    779

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    The first time I did High Sticking was in Cheeseman Canyon on the So. Platte in 1985. We use size 12 scuds and it was spectacular, some 30 fish days.

    When we would spot a riser one of use would re-rig and add a RS2 to see if we could hook up.

    I use my Scott 'G' 9' 6wt and it was sometime a challenge to control those fish.

    Prior to that I had caught relatively few fish on that stretch of what was considered difficult water.

    Fishing was really good that year.

    In 1986 I moved back to Nevada and started fishing the Truckee. It worked well there too.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA / Pullman, WA
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    2,452

    Default Re: Drop Shot Nymphing

    High Stick nymphing was developed by Chuck Fothergill on the Roaring Fork river in the early 70's. He, along with Georges Odier taught it to a host of other well known fishermen including that guy "Lefty" who called it the "out-rigger technique"...

    CHARLES ROBERT FOTHERGILL

    This was Chuck's shop in Aspen in 1975...



    Both Check and George were avid Scott "G" series addicts - they made me a believer and I rarely ever used my first Sage after the summer of 1980...

    Larry Tullis may be credited with the drop shot or bounce rig but I saw a similar technique being used on the Fork that employed twist-ons, rigged on light tippet material, instead of shot, years prior to 2001. The theory behind it being that one would get their flies deep real quick and that the tag (or weight) would break off, if snagged, and the flies would not be lost...


    PT/TB
    Daughter to Father, " How many arms do you have, how many fly rods do you need?"

    http://planettrout.wordpress.com/

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