Anyone else not love Offset Jaw Rotary vises?

[wee hooker]

So I'm helping a long time fishing buddy upgrade his vise after 50 years of tying (excellent ) flies on a succession of basic vise's. He has just expressed an interest in upgrading with the thought of being to rotate the fly to check symmetry /add eyes/head cement etc .. He will not be using the rotation feature to wind body/hackle materials. ( Let's just say he's got that down just fine after all these years.) Anyway, our discussion has got me reminiscing.

Some 16 yrs ago I made the switch from a basic vise through a few other experiments before settling on a Griffin Patriot for similar reasons .
I love that Patriot vise and despite it working perfectly for me in every way, 3 years ago I felt envy of the "True Rotary" on axis feature that only the offset jaw style vises provide. Guess I just I felt I need to see what it was all about. Having little will power and a work bonus check in hand, I was soon the proud owner of a Griffin Montana Mongoose vise with all the bells and whistles.
Long story short is that despite the GMM being a finely built machine, I just could not warm up to it. In particular, I found it awkward to tie on as my left hand seemed to be floating in air vs referencing the head of vise. Laying out tail hackles fell into the same void vs being supported by the vice head. Lastly, because the True rotary feature and bobbin cradle was there, I found myself experimenting with changing how I wrapped bodies/hackle. What I discovered is that I was happier (and faster) doing it the old way. All in all , it took me less than a dozen flies to pack the GMM back up for retirement. Guess I'm just to old/set in my ways.

Anyway, the point of all this (besides killing some time on a snowy day) is that while I know allot of folks love a true rotary vice, I'm wondering if there are any other "Been there -Done that" holdouts like myself that just can't cozy up to this style of vise. [poke]

 

[ikankecil]

I've lived in a number of places around the U.S., both East and West, and it seems that vice preferences are somewhat regional (from my own observations).

 

[wee hooker]

I've lived in a number of places around the U.S., both East and West, and it seems that vice preferences are somewhat regional (from my own observations).

Interesting. I'd be interested in learning what you have you observed?

 

[corn fed fins]

Anything "new" presents a challenge. I still find myself reaching for the stick in my automatic from time to time.LOL I was in the same boat and actually struggled using the rotary function on many of my ties. Took some time but now I can tie faster and with better symmetry.

I haven't noticed regional preferences unless we are talking brand. That can be very regional.

 

[s fontinalis]

I have both styles of vise - Regal Medallion (Trad. and Midge Jaws) as well as a true rotary Cottarelli Vise. I can tell you with 100% certainly I rarely use the true rotary function to full effect. The Cotarelli can also pitch the jaws at an angles and i frequently use them like this - with the rotary function to see the other side of the fly.

I think true rotary is great for new tyers or production tyers. i know a few who use the Regal Revolution for this, but generally, IMHO, true rotary is not necessary.

 

[dwizum]

I've tied some on fancy vices in the last few years including a true rotary. I soon realized I was forcing myself to use the feature as a way to try to justify it.

All my tying is done on a cheap no-name vice. I don't really see how I could ever need or even want anything else. This vice has always held every hook (from giant spey flies to size 20 midges) just fine and it's easy to use.

 

[hmayher]

Good evening. I just joined this forum tonight, looking for information on the Regal Revolution vise. I've been tying off and on for about twenty years, and due to health issues find that my fly tying is more on then my fishing lately. I've used both types and always appreciated the extra capabilities of the rotary, even if I don't always take advantage of them. When I need or want them they are available, when not, I find that a locked down rotary is essentially a normal vise. I tie larger saltwater flies and a lot of epoxy heads, and find the rotary especially helpful for leveling flowing epoxy. This is even more helpful with the UV epoxies. The one thing that bothers me about the rotary vises that I own, the Renzetti Traveler and the Atlas, is the fact that they aren't balanced. Most rotary vises aren't. In other words, the weight of the offset jaws isn't counter balanced to allow free spinning. I'm not sure I need free spinning, but I would like even spinning, where my vise rotates smoothly and doesn't limp around the axis. This is why the Regal Revolution has caught my attention. Balanced rotation, together with "Big Game" jaws might be enough to force me to come up with it's $450.00 price tag.

 

[silver creek]

Good evening. I just joined this forum tonight, looking for information on the Regal Revolution vise. I've been tying off and on for about twenty years, and due to health issues find that my fly tying is more on then my fishing lately. I've used both types and always appreciated the extra capabilities of the rotary, even if I don't always take advantage of them. When I need or want them they are available, when not, I find that a locked down rotary is essentially a normal vise. I tie larger saltwater flies and a lot of epoxy heads, and find the rotary especially helpful for leveling flowing epoxy. This is even more helpful with the UV epoxies. The one thing that bothers me about the rotary vises that I own, the Renzetti Traveler and the Atlas, is the fact that they aren't balanced. Most rotary vises aren't. In other words, the weight of the offset jaws isn't counter balanced to allow free spinning. I'm not sure I need free spinning, but I would like even spinning, where my vise rotates smoothly and doesn't limp around the axis. This is why the Regal Revolution has caught my attention. Balanced rotation, together with "Big Game" jaws might be enough to force me to come up with it's $450.00 price tag.

If you want rotation around the axis of the hook, the jaw must be offset to one side to place the hook shank at the center of revolution. Consider the Regal revolution below. The jaw is to one side of the hook shank and the larger the hook, the more the jaw will be offset from the center. Plus you have that "material clip" in the way of getting clear access to back of the hook,

For smaller hooks the fact is that you have to angle the jaws like a regular vise to get good access to the hook and then the vise is not a true rotary.

Now consider the Norvise. With extra jaws, you can set the jaws like you want.

I have a Renzetti Master Vise with an optional Ausauble speed crank below and I can spin it very fast.

 

[falcon53]

I use a Regal with standard jaws which I only use for tying larger flies and streamers. I find it difficult to access the back of the hook on small patterns and the standard jaws are better adapted to tying on longer hooks. The stainless regal jaws (about 200.00)would alleviate this problem. However, I bought a rotary Peak when they were first introduced for 135.00 and I have been relatively happy with it.

But that Norvise sure looks slick!!!

 

[flyfishsick]

love my Norvise!!!:worthy:

 

[sparsegraystubble]

I moved to a Renzetti Traveler sometime in the mid 90s and it does everything I want it to. Seldom use it as a true rotary, but turn it a lot to change view of the flies.

I almost bought a Regal, but several friends had the spring loaded jaws chip and shoot either a piece of the jaws, the hook or both into a wall hard enough to penetrate the plaster.

But I wish the base on my Traveler had the tray to hold stuff that the Regal has. But I’m too cheap to buy a new base just for that reason.

Don

 

[pnc]

Renzetti traveler, first & only vise. Does have Peak base now. Using various brands of vises at tying classes or demos. It's easy to see how people become creatures of habit. Personally don't like cam lock vises. But as people use one vise consistently. They are training themselves to do so. Hand movments become ingrained, second nature. Change vises and these ingrained habits may not work.
Op for thread was clearly someone happy with their own "old ways". If time had been taken to adapt to rotary vise. Story would end differently.
Stationary vises are basically just clamps. Rotary, tools.

.......... pc

 

[don_p]

Years ago, when I could finally afford one, I treated myself to a Regal Medallion with stainless jaws and really enjoyed years of tying (strictly trout flies) on that vise. Recently I purchased a Stonfo Elite and now my Regal sits gathering dust. I find the rotary function of the Stonfo extremely handy and advantageous for quite a few patterns I tie and overall a joy to tie on. One upgrade I'd like to make though is a pivot point fixture on the main shaft just below the vise head like the one Jay offers for his jvice.

 

[hmayher]

If you want rotation around the axis of the hook, the jaw must be offset to one side to place the hook shank at the center of revolution. Consider the Regal revolution below. The jaw is to one side of the hook shank and the larger the hook, the more the jaw will be offset from the center. Plus you have that "material clip" in the way of getting clear access to back of the hook,

For smaller hooks the fact is that you have to angle the jaws like a regular vise to get good access to the hook and then the vise is not a true rotary.

Thanks Silver: After reading your comments and taking another look at the Revolution , I tend to agree with you. Space, or lack thereof, behind the jaws could certainly be a problem. I tie saltwater flies, so most of my patterns would be considered as large. Perhaps not as much of an issue for larger flies, but enough of one that I would like to spend a few hours tying with a Revolution before making the investment. And of course you now have me considering a Renzetti Master with the Ausable crank. I've never really liked the jaws on my 25 year old Renzetti Traveler. My model doesn't have the lever for locking down the hook and certainly wasn't designed for the hook sizes that I force it to hold. However, it is still in great condition after years of abuse. After looking online at the Master with the Ausable crank, and reading that it can handle a 10/0 hook, I now have that feeling in the pit of my stomach that won't go away unless I buy one. Yes it is a sickness, and you sir helped to infect me. I'm currently tying with a $150.00 Atlas that I'm fairly happy with, but again, the jaws aren't meant for the hook sizes I use. I made my own crank for the Atlas and mounted it on the opposite side of the vise from the jaws and it does smooth out the rotation. I don't know why manufactures don't do this. With a little tweeking you could balance the vise perfectly. The upside of the Renzetti sickness will be realised if I demo and buy a Revolution, my thinking will be that I'm saving money.

 

[Ard]

Another Renzetti Traveler user here, like Sparsegraystubble I picked one up in 1994. At that time I still tied on both a Thompson model A and one of the Thompson 360 A vices. It took a while for me to get used to the weird look and geo / trigonometry of the Renzetti but I got used to it.

I tied everything with it until about just 4 years ago when I started tying a lot on tubes. I still have the Thompson 360 A and it makes a great tube vise. Whenever I tie fancy stuff I still use the renzetti.

 

[sweetandsalt]

I'm not tying as much as I should and far less than I used to...I intend to amend this. Like many, I tied for years with a Thompson, no problem. Then I got my first fancy vise, a Troutfitter, conventional but with parallel clamping jaws (two sets big and small) a great vice that taught me parallel clamping was superior to collet pinching of the hook. I used that vice for many seasons until a friend going out of the fly shop business sold his floor sample Renzetti to my wife as a present for me and I switched over to it. It too has adjustable parallel clamping and is very well made. I also have a Peak rotary that is my travel vice.

I used to tie hair wing Atlantic salmon flies so I hardly need a rotary to uniformly wind ribbing or surely not hackle and don't. However, even though I don't employ the rotating feature I love and now rely on it now as many flies I tie from Thorax duns for trout to various shrimp and crab designs for the flats involve working on both the top and bottom of the fly both in trimming and material applications. The Renzetti is a great design and very well built and...I don't have to remove the fly from the jaws and turn it over; fabulous!

 

[Ard]

So I'm helping a long time fishing buddy upgrade his vise after 50 years of tying (excellent ) flies on a succession of basic vise's. He has just expressed an interest in upgrading with the thought of being to rotate the fly to check symmetry /add eyes/head cement etc .. He will not be using the rotation feature to wind body/hackle materials. ( Let's just say he's got that down just fine after all these years.) Anyway, our discussion has got me reminiscing.

Some 16 yrs ago I made the switch from a basic vise through a few other experiments before settling on a Griffin Patriot for similar reasons .
I love that Patriot vise and despite it working perfectly for me in every way, 3 years ago I felt envy of the "True Rotary" on axis feature that only the offset jaw style vises provide. Guess I just I felt I need to see what it was all about. Having little will power and a work bonus check in hand, I was soon the proud owner of a Griffin Montana Mongoose vise with all the bells and whistles.
Long story short is that despite the GMM being a finely built machine, I just could not warm up to it. In particular, I found it awkward to tie on as my left hand seemed to be floating in air vs referencing the head of vise. Laying out tail hackles fell into the same void vs being supported by the vice head. Lastly, because the True rotary feature and bobbin cradle was there, I found myself experimenting with changing how I wrapped bodies/hackle. What I discovered is that I was happier (and faster) doing it the old way. All in all , it took me less than a dozen flies to pack the GMM back up for retirement. Guess I'm just to old/set in my ways.

Anyway, the point of all this (besides killing some time on a snowy day) is that while I know allot of folks love a true rotary vice, I'm wondering if there are any other "Been there -Done that" holdouts like myself that just can't cozy up to this style of vise. [poke]

Is it just me or are these pictures missing for everyone? The lack of images made it hard to relate to the point of the post for me.

When you say "Offset" does that mean vices like the Renzetti Traveler?

[Note] I just went back and checked the date of the OP, I didn't notice that this was an 11 month old thread. The lack of imagery is however not helping.

 

[c web]

I really want to try a high end vice but I am just to dang stingy. I still tie on a thompson model A that belonged to my grandfather and was passed down to me. I still coax the stupid trout to eat my flies so just can't bring myself to plopping down the dollars for a new vice. Maybe one day.

 

[smoke33]

I really want to try a high end vice but I am just to dang stingy. I still tie on a thompson model A that belonged to my grandfather and was passed down to me. I still coax the stupid trout to eat my flies so just can't bring myself to plopping down the dollars for a new vice. Maybe one day.

Over the last few weeks I have learned a lot here and there are many great guys. The most eye opening thing I have learned is how overly priced fly gear is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikechell]

Couple of years ago, I bought a Griffin Odyssey Spider cam vise. I've loved it ever since.
I used a Supreme vise for decades, until it finally quit clamping properly.
When I got the Griffin, I didn't think I'd be using the rotary function much. Actually, I still don't. But when I found out I could wrap a hackle an never break off ... it's the only way I palmer, now.
I never did rest my left hand on the vise, so that aspect of the offset never bothered me.

Love mine!