Facing Reality

[kevind62]

Ok. I have come to the realization that I will be extremely limited to tying dries on anything smaller than a #18. Actually, from all my trials, #20 is as small as I can go regardless of how simple the fly on dries. I just can't hold the materials in the correct postion to get them on and look right. My chubby fingers get in the way of gettng the thread close enough to tie it on with the more complex fly patterns. I do ok with the simple caddis patterns and parachute adams (bought one of those parachute rigs for my vise for this). I'll just have to settle with buying the mocro flies at the fly shop made by some dainty fingered girl in India. I guess I can live with that as I am able to tie all of my nymph patterns ok down to a #22 and some of the simple patterns as small as #24.

I watched a youtube video on these factories in India. A guy could learn a lot from watching these women/girls tie these microsopic little boogers. The main thing I learned was it's a hell of a lot easier to go the the local fly shop and buy these than it is to try and tie them!!!!!! :doh::icon_mrgr

 

[mcnerney]

Kevin

Welcome to the club!
I don't tie dries smaller then size 18 either, unless it is something real simple like a spinner pattern, a Trico or griffiths gnat. Besides, at my age I can't see those little flies on the water anyway.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I've had the same single pack of size 20 and 22 hooks in stock for 25 years.

Very rare I would tie a fly of this size.

 

[jaybo41]

The reality is you're not alone. I recognize there are some folks on the forum who regularly tie small flies. Hat's off to you guys and gals. I try not to be one of them. My limit is 20-22 and like Larry mentioned, only if the fly is simple. I'm not ashamed to buy small flies because aside from the tying challenges, I don't enjoy tying them.

I once ran into an old timer on a stream, we chatted and exchanged flies. Both impressed with the other's work. He then reached into his box, pulled something out and told me to open my hand and insisted I use this fly today. He dropped the fly in the palm of my hand, I was astonished. It was THE smallest fly I've ever seen. This man handed me a size 32 Copper John variant. While not exactly like like the original, it was mostly the same although slightly different due to the size limitations of the hook.

I asked him how the heck he could tie that small, his proceeded to tell me about his bench which included a large magnifier with light. Clearly some folks get into tying small, not this guy. If I can't tie it by naked eye or with cheaters, then I'm not wrapping it.

 

[old timer]

I not only don't tie small flies, but I also have no need to use them on the waters I fish.

Which works out perfect, because I could never see them on the water anyway.

 

[dennyk]

Frustration is not limited to tying small flys, also trying to tie them to the tippit.


Denny

 

[wthorpe]

A fish that will not eat a size 20 fly, and demands something smaller, is not sufficiently sporting for me to wanna catch the little b*****d anyhow! (I am sorta joking but not entirely.) That size happens to be at the limits of what i can see on the water, let alone tie. Moreover, I cannot honestly remember when, if ever, i have fished smaller flies than a 20. I suppose i might have hung a smaller store bought baetis nymph or emerger off a dry i can actually see.

 

[deceiverbob]

I'm a saltwater guy with fat fingers. Twelve is as small as I have tied on.

 

[cab]

These days, I hardly have time to tie flies at all. Being out of practice hurts!

Now that I don't go through so many flies per day, buying is economical. Yeah, that's it- economical.....

CAB

 

[williamhj]

I can tie them that small, but still buy a bunch every year anyway. 20's, 22's, and 24's.

 

[spm]

Seems like a lot of us are getting to the point where we either can't see flies smaller than 20-22, or our fingers just won't work that well, anymore. I am certainly in this category. I have, and can tie down to a 22, but as others have said, it's a pretty simple fly. And seeing them on the water? Probably not. I follow my line and hope my fly is at then end of it. Often times, when fishing a fly that small, what I think is my fly turns out to be a bubble from a bit of foamy water or a piece of a leaf.

Oh, well. Getting older is still better than the alternative.

steve

 

[kevind62]

Oh, well. Getting older is still better than the alternative.

steve

Steve, would you like to join our new fly fishing club?

 

[old timer]

Never say graveyard to an old guy.

 

[corn fed fins]

So you can't/won't tie small flies, no big deal. Find a local guy to tie them for you. There will be plenty of time to sit around and talk about how we used to wade this, tie that, and throw 100' perfect looped casts. Go buy the flies, head to the water, breath in the air, and pierce some lips.

The meaningless **** can wait for us on our death bed.....and cheers to a long long wait.

 

[nevadanstig]

Ive never even tried to tie a dry smaller than 18 or maybe 20. 22 is about the limit for wets even.
As far as actually seeing a dry while fishing? My limit is about a size 14. Anything smaller and I have to either fish the dries with a larger dry or a bobber.
And if it makes you feel better, this is all at age 34.

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

 

[Ard]

Hi Kevin,

About 35 years ago I was tying down to size 28 Trico's and was able to do a nice job on them, still have hooks if you want some The problem was that I really couldn't see them out there even with eyes that much younger.

I spent a great deal of time fishing on the Spring Creeks in Pennsylvania and eventually discovered that a #18 or 20 Little Blue Quill / Pale Evening Dunn would work all the time regardless of the hatch. They seemed to check all the boxes for the trout, size, color and enough detail to satisfy even the larger more discriminating fish.

This is one of about 2 dozen I still have.


That one actually has a tiny dubbed body but I learned that they floated better if I just built the body with waxed gray thread and skipped the dubbing. I think the thread bodies worked better but I believe it was the Mallard slip wings that were the key for finicky fish. Many an evening during a good Sulfur hatch I used one of those flies and caught more fish than guys who were eating up the clock changing flies searching for the right Sulfur pattern. Often the flies would be rendered to just the hook wrapped with the thread that was glued down and the wings by fish caught. Even with just a fine wire hook and wings only, right near dark they were deadly. You could let them drift all the way past you and start to arc into a swing under water and fish hit them like a wet fly and hooked themselves in doing so.

Originally I made them with a quill body like this but they were fragile.


After I went to just thread I got hold of some super fine wire and started wrapping the body with a couple turns of that, it helped hold them together, those browns had some sharp choppers on them.


Only one creek demanded something smaller and I made them likke this.


With those you could lighten or darken the body to suit the demands of the spring. I think that may be a 22 and that was as small as I was using up until I moved in 2004.

I do believe it was those wings,



They take practice but once you have it figured out, I caught more trout with that style wing than any other style dry. Unless...... unless fishing brookie's and then a larger fly and sometimes just a Bi Visible would get it done.

Tying them really does require some magnification and just don't be in a hurry, I was pretty slow myself. Just looking at those tiny flies brings back memories, they are mostly all chewed up but whenever I get down East again I'll take them with. Tying salmon flies is pretty easy I guess
Once I found that the little quill would

 

[Walter1023]

I agree with Ard. I fish the Farmington river alot and especially older guys I meet seem to have a cult like philosophy of fishing small. I was recently doing well fishing a midge hatch with a size 16 griffiths knat ( I think silver creek was the one who once wrote gary borger prefers this size over even smaller sizes.....and damn is he right). After numerous fish landed.....I gave my spot up to an older guy and shared my fly of choice. he responded that the biggest fly in his box was size 22......and he was using a 0 weight rod with 8X tippet ????? needless to say as i was watching him later the little wind gusts would just collapse his fly cast and he never had a chance. I routinely fish size 16 and 18 soft hackled dries over many slow glass pools successfully and hookup as I hear guys downstream not having luck talking about how they are changing from size 24 to 26 ???? Crazy.

 

[kevind62]

From all the many posts, I can agree and slightly disagree across the board. I agree that in many cases the fly imitation of choice is not critical. If a bug that has never hatched in said water before were to happen to land on the water, there is a fish down there who is going to have him for lunch. Even if he's never seen this species of bug before. Instinct tells the fish it's real food. Learned this many years ago live bait fishing for crappie and bass. We were using saltwater live shrimp in places I know for a fact no shrimp has ever been. We'd catch the young adolescent shrimp in the brackish backwaters so they'd live a little longer when we dropped them in the freshwater and take them up on the rivers in the north part of the state and fish with them. The fish never took the time to identify what species of food it was. I know this because when you'd drop it in the water the bobber wouldn't even settle before the fish would hammer it.

Having said all that, I'll be the first to admit that mountain trout are a bit more picky. I've learned this quickly in my short fly fishing lifetime. What I have come to as a conclusion to the driver of their pickiness is visability. In stained to muddy water they're not as picky and seem to hit a more diverse variety of baits. In clear fast water you get somewhat the same response but not quite as diverse. The "foods of choice" seem a bit more narrow.

Case in point: Recent trips to Alcova (WY) and 11 Mile Canyon (CO). On Grey reef the water was stained and moving fast. Caught fish on a variety of baits. In Fremont Canyon the water was clear and a bit slower and the fish were a lot more selective of what they wanted. Mostly juju's and the color choice seemed to favor red. Did catch a nice brown on a black SJW with a red abdomen. At 11 Mile Canyon the water was clear everwhere. In the rapids the fish were less choosy. On the flats once the sun came up they got very picky. Juju's here too. Red with gold anton legs.

Here's where "size matters" comes in to play. At 11 mile canyon I was fortunate enough to find fish on top feeding. Day one was a flop since I was not prepared to fish dries. Stopped at a local fly shop and rectified that issue quickly. Bought about 15 or so dries of various sizes #18 - #14 and bought two baetis duns in #22 just because they caught my eye for some reason. Started with a #16 Para adams and a #18 Caddis on a 9' #5 leader with 3' of 7X floro tippet. I watched fish come up and look at my flies on every cast only to turn away. After about a dozen times I decided to try something different. I noticed some small bugs on the water and could see the fish hitting bugs but couldn't tell which ones. I tied on one of the #22 baetis duns and caught a fish on the first cast. I watched cast after cast fish coming to look at my flies. They'd look at the larger one then turn and hit the smaller one. Caught 6 nice trout on these #22's before the fish finally destroyed both. Kicked myself for not buying more but didn't want to waste my money on a bunch of small flies "I'd probably never use". Won't make that mistake again.

Back to the visability thing. In this same spot I caught two fish all day on nymphs. I stayed in the same run because I knew the fish were there. After the sun began for slip behind the tree tops and the mountain the shadows began to hit the water. As soon as this happened, the same fish who wouldn't hardly touch a wet fly suddenly couldn't get enough of them. I was fishing a #16 McFly Foam egg in yellow with red yolk followed by a #14 red sjw with tan abdomen, followed by a #16 red juju with gold anton legs. The first few fish were on the juju. As the shadows gew on the water they started hitting the egg also. Then, as the shadow darkened the water more they switched to hitting the sjw and nothing else. The last 10 or 12 fish I caught standing there were all on the sjw for about an hour and a half of the last good fishing light. The last 3 fish I caught on the sjw I didn't think I would even catch anything on it. It was in such bad shape from all the other fish I was tempted to cut it off and tie on another but light was fading fast, I was catching fish, and I couldn't see to tie the 7X tippet well enough.

For some of the comments I see where some guys said they used a larger fly with a smaller one to aid them in being able to see their fly. From my observations of this set up recently used myself just for the sake of variety, I believe there's something to it. Kind of like using a trailer when you're trolling in salt or freshwater. You put a larger bait and drop a smaller bait behind it. The larger baits action and visability helps to get the fish's attention and draw him in for a look. But 9 out of 10 times we catch the fish on the smaller bait. It looked to me like it was the same when I was fishing the larger dry with the smaller one. As I said, I could see the fish come to the larger one and turn away just as their nose was about to hit it and take the smaller one instead. Like I said, I'm no expert fly fisherman by any means. This is just my observation from the experiences I've had. I've always taken mental notes when I fish and when I get back to the truck I write down what I think is important from that day.

 

[spm]

Steve, would you like to join our new fly fishing club?

Hahahahahahahaha! Absolutely!

s.

 

[old timer]

From all the many posts, I can agree and slightly disagree across the board. I agree that in many cases the fly imitation of choice is not critical. If a bug that has never hatched in said water before were to happen to land on the water, there is a fish down there who is going to have him for lunch. Even if he's never seen this species of bug before. Instinct tells the fish it's real food. Learned this many years ago live bait fishing for crappie and bass. We were using saltwater live shrimp in places I know for a fact no shrimp has ever been. We'd catch the young adolescent shrimp in the brackish backwaters so they'd live a little longer when we dropped them in the freshwater and take them up on the rivers in the north part of the state and fish with them. The fish never took the time to identify what species of food it was. I know this because when you'd drop it in the water the bobber wouldn't even settle before the fish would hammer it.

Having said all that, I'll be the first to admit that mountain trout are a bit more picky. I've learned this quickly in my short fly fishing lifetime. What I have come to as a conclusion to the driver of their pickiness is visability. In stained to muddy water they're not as picky and seem to hit a more diverse variety of baits. In clear fast water you get somewhat the same response but not quite as diverse. The "foods of choice" seem a bit more narrow.

Case in point: Recent trips to Alcova (WY) and 11 Mile Canyon (CO). On Grey reef the water was stained and moving fast. Caught fish on a variety of baits. In Fremont Canyon the water was clear and a bit slower and the fish were a lot more selective of what they wanted. Mostly juju's and the color choice seemed to favor red. Did catch a nice brown on a black SJW with a red abdomen. At 11 Mile Canyon the water was clear everwhere. In the rapids the fish were less choosy. On the flats once the sun came up they got very picky. Juju's here too. Red with gold anton legs.

Here's where "size matters" comes in to play. At 11 mile canyon I was fortunate enough to find fish on top feeding. Day one was a flop since I was not prepared to fish dries. Stopped at a local fly shop and rectified that issue quickly. Bought about 15 or so dries of various sizes #18 - #14 and bought two baetis duns in #22 just because they caught my eye for some reason. Started with a #16 Para adams and a #18 Caddis on a 9' #5 leader with 3' of 7X floro tippet. I watched fish come up and look at my flies on every cast only to turn away. After about a dozen times I decided to try something different. I noticed some small bugs on the water and could see the fish hitting bugs but couldn't tell which ones. I tied on one of the #22 baetis duns and caught a fish on the first cast. I watched cast after cast fish coming to look at my flies. They'd look at the larger one then turn and hit the smaller one. Caught 6 nice trout on these #22's before the fish finally destroyed both. Kicked myself for not buying more but didn't want to waste my money on a bunch of small flies "I'd probably never use". Won't make that mistake again.

Back to the visability thing. In this same spot I caught two fish all day on nymphs. I stayed in the same run because I knew the fish were there. After the sun began for slip behind the tree tops and the mountain the shadows began to hit the water. As soon as this happened, the same fish who wouldn't hardly touch a wet fly suddenly couldn't get enough of them. I was fishing a #16 McFly Foam egg in yellow with red yolk followed by a #14 red sjw with tan abdomen, followed by a #16 red juju with gold anton legs. The first few fish were on the juju. As the shadows gew on the water they started hitting the egg also. Then, as the shadow darkened the water more they switched to hitting the sjw and nothing else. The last 10 or 12 fish I caught standing there were all on the sjw for about an hour and a half of the last good fishing light. The last 3 fish I caught on the sjw I didn't think I would even catch anything on it. It was in such bad shape from all the other fish I was tempted to cut it off and tie on another but light was fading fast, I was catching fish, and I couldn't see to tie the 7X tippet well enough.

For some of the comments I see where some guys said they used a larger fly with a smaller one to aid them in being able to see their fly. From my observations of this set up recently used myself just for the sake of variety, I believe there's something to it. Kind of like using a trailer when you're trolling in salt or freshwater. You put a larger bait and drop a smaller bait behind it. The larger baits action and visability helps to get the fish's attention and draw him in for a look. But 9 out of 10 times we catch the fish on the smaller bait. It looked to me like it was the same when I was fishing the larger dry with the smaller one. As I said, I could see the fish come to the larger one and turn away just as their nose was about to hit it and take the smaller one instead. Like I said, I'm no expert fly fisherman by any means. This is just my observation from the experiences I've had. I've always taken mental notes when I fish and when I get back to the truck I write down what I think is important from that day.

11 mile is a tailwater. Fish are always a bit picky on tailwaters in Colorado. The Frying Pan and Taylor are good examples. However, a good presentation and a #16 dry will work all the time if you have patience.

I only fish the Pan now during the green drake hatch in late summer. The fish are picky then for green drakes and who wouldn't like fishing #10-12 dries for big fish?