Rod action, Fast vs Slow

[vpsihop1]

I'm really trying to like softer/slower rods, but the last time I went out with a new rod, a slower rod than I normally cast, i cemented my thought that fast rods are the true workhorses and slow rods should be designated to specialty situations in perfect conditions.

This limits their use substantially.

I went out for tricos the other day with a wonderful rod, a Loomis Pro4x LP 8'6" 4 wt, only problem was the wind, that rod couldn't handle it unless you nailed your cast and haul perfectly. With my 4 wt Method it would have been a breeze.

Yes, some fast action rods have little "feel" but that's slowly changing, take the X for example, tremendous line speed, lots of feel, moderate casting stroke. I'm not used to that combo so I wasn't thrilled with X. I was pushing to hard.

Maybe we are seeing the industry use new tech to finally create high line speed rods with softer rod feel. I think it's amazing.

My opinion is that slow rods may not go the way of the Dodo bird, but as people experience the benefits of fast action with more feel, slow rods will decrease in sales.

I can't imagine using the Pro4xlp again unless things are perfect, but I'll still be nervous I need more power, never an issue with Method/fast rods.

Your thoughts?

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[comeonavs]

I don't know I have a the 389-4 circa which is really slow. I've fished it in some wind and don't find myself lacking horsepower to cut a decent breeze. For a slow rod the circa will certainly generate some line speed

 

[vpsihop1]

I don't know I have a the 389-4 circa which is really slow. I've fished it in some wind and don't find myself lacking horsepower to cut a decent breeze. For a slow rod the circa will certainly generate some line speed

At what distance?

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[fq13]

To me it's apples and oranges. I use slow rods like a Reddington Ct or bamboo when I want to make a small fish feel like a big fish. When I get serious or am dealing with heavy flies or wind? Out comes the Sage, Predator or tip action Orvis. It's really a matter of what I am in the mood for or conditions dictate. It's probably why my casting stroke is so bad, shifting from a Ct to an RPL. constantly does not breed consistency . Still, I choose to own both. They each offer a different vibe and a different pace and mindset. Old school vs using the Acme Whackinator 2000. I mean I have a lever action Marlin .22 and a Ruger 10/22 with a red dot. Both equal dead squirrel but it's a different feel. Buy both and enjoy them ( someone has to be the voice of satan)..

 

[kevind62]

For me, I use a simple rule of thumb. I buy a rod to match the type of women I like. Which presents a problem. It all depends on the mood I'm in. So, now I have a fast rod, a fast/medium rod, a medium/fast rod, a medium rod, a medium/slow rod, a slow/medium rod, and a slow rod. I think I'm covered. And remember, size doesn't matter. It's all in the wrist.

 

[vpsihop1]

Hahaha, excellent. I agree​ fq13, I like my slower rods, but I'm starting to think of them as novelties. When I'm in the mood to play around or just feel something different out comes the glass and soft/slow rods.

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[tcorfey]

For me it is not the rod action so much as the casters timing with the rod in use.

Practice and getting your timing correct is the key to casting in the wind with any rod. When practicing do it with the wind behind you and then in front of you and then right to left and left to right. Do not forget to use targets and being on the water is best. I am lucky that we have nice casting ponds with lots of 18" targets to practice on.

As far as using a slower rod most problems that occur with slower rods are that the caster does not wait long enough for his/her backcast to complete before they start the forward cast and/or they try to push, punch or muscle the forward cast. Those problems really mess you up if there is any wind.

Here is Joe Brooks back in 1963 casting in 50 mph winds and you can see the rod bend while at rest. He talks about timing, line speed, letting the rod do the work and keeping your cast low.

Video: Joe Brooks on Casting Into the Wind - Orvis News

I guess I think differently then some because I feel a fast rod is a specialty rod which is only better for heavy weighted nymphs, big streamers and sinking or sink tip lines. Therefore for me a fast rod is a specialty rod and the majority of my fishing is done with a slower to maybe a medium-fast action rod. If I was fishing a lot of heavy nymph rigs or the salt with big streamers all the time I would probably think differently.

Regards,

Tim C.

 

[vpsihop1]

I will agree that timing, practice, etc. will help, but you still need to hit the perfect cast with the slow rod in the wind. The video shows an expert caster. There are few Rajeffs, Brooks out there. High line speed rods make it easier and still have more reserve than the slower rods when both are cast perfectly. Some may complain that fast rods don't deliver as delicately as slower rods. This can be overcome by aiming higher and letting the fly fall to the water.

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[alansb1982]

I started playing around with glass this week. I like it, although I don't think I'd ever just own a glass rod. In southern FL, I fish freshwater canals and ponds for cichlids and bass, and inshore salt for whatever bites. For the former, I'm really liking my new 3wt glass rod. I can get it to cast about 20-40 feet, and that's usually all I need. I also like that it's 7' long because I can take it in and out of my small car without disassembling. But for inshore salt, or if I just don't know the water I'm going to be fishing, I reach for my 6wt graphite.

 

[vpsihop1]

I started playing around with glass this week. I like it, although I don't think I'd ever just own a glass rod. In southern FL, I fish freshwater canals and ponds for cichlids and bass, and inshore salt for whatever bites. For the former, I'm really liking my new 3wt glass rod. I can get it to cast about 20-40 feet, and that's usually all I need. I also like that it's 7' long because I can take it in and out of my small car without disassembling. But for inshore salt, or if I just don't know the water I'm going to be fishing, I reach for my 6wt graphite.

How would that do if the wind picked up to 10-15 mph?

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[alansb1982]

How would that do of the wind picked up to 10-15 mph?

I've only been fly fishing for about a year, so I'm far from the greatest caster. If I can get enough line out for a decent double-haul, 20ft is probably about the most I could do. I fish in an urban area, so clearance is almost always an issue. 10mph isn't bad; 15 is not fun at all. On Sunday, we had 20mph and we started looking at getting off the lake we were on and into the canals (which have a bit more shelter from the wind).

All that said, Sunday was my first full day outing with it. I'm sure there are guys out there who are experienced enough with the fundamentals and their setups to cast. I know with my 6wt, which I've been fishing for a while now, I could have cast in that wind.

 

[vpsihop1]

I'm not saying slower action rods are bad, I'm saying what I love about them is the feel/feedback.

My favorite new rod is the Winston Air. Feels amazing, but I balk when thinking about a $900 rod that might not cut it in the wind.

I think we're heading towards rods that provide feedback, rods that bend, but deliver high line speed/fast action. Imagine a rod that bends like glass, but responds like a ultra fast sage. These are just thoughts I came up with overnight working the ICU, maybe I'm delerious, lots of beeping monitors overnight will do that to ya

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[alansb1982]

Ahh, I don't know much about that category. I actually just launched a blog that's going to focus on cheap gear. My 6wt was $50, my glass rod was $60. I like them both more than my Redington Path and TFO NXT rods, which were both more expensive.

 

[silver creek]

Ahh, I don't know much about that category. I actually just launched a blog that's going to focus on cheap gear. My 6wt was $50, my glass rod was $60. I like them both more than my Redington Path and TFO NXT rods, which were both more expensive.

Do NOT confuse rod action with rod material.

I may be wrong but I suspect you "like" those rods because they have more mass, and mass means more moment of inertia, and more inertia can translate to more "feel" especially on shorter casts.

Some fly fishers love the inexpensive yellow Eagle Claw Featherlight fly rods. I can cast them but I hate those rods. They does not mean others cannot love them.

Read this post where I state that, "The feel of a fly rod is due to the fly rod action AND the mass distribution of material along the rod blank. It is a combination of where the rod bends and the moment of inertial (swing weight) of the fly rod as it is being cast."

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-rods/368139-fiberglass-graphite.html#post805408

 

[patrick62]

Over the decades I have found the best tactic, which is to have lots of rods of all sorts, and choose depending on conditions and my mood.

The problems with this approach are a) it runs into money and b) my fishing closet looks like the stateroom scene in "A Night at the Opera."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZvugebaT6Q

 

[comeonavs]

At what distance?

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It's a 3wt so not far, 20-30' of floating line is typical distance I fish it st

Don't get me wrong I like you do have fast rods like the ONE in a 6wt where I usually use it the wind howls 25+mph so with a bigger payload you really need that backbone in those cases.

 

[el_deanyo]

A lot of faster rods are so that you can make those casts that cut through the wind. Look at bonefish rods - the usual comment about them is they need to be fast to cut through wind on the flats. Of course you'll be under-gunned with a medium action rod in that situation.

For something like Carp, i like having a slightly slower rod because you can lay down softer casts, versus a fast rod where you either end up opening your cast (thus defeating the purpose) or you pound the water which scares the fish. If it's going to be a windy day, then i prefer a faster rod or i just dont fish, but the situation determines what i use.

For trout it of course will depend on much the same factors, as well as the type of fishing you're doing.

My point is, I often let the situation/fishing dictate what rod I'm going to use. Sure there are times when i'll take certain rods out just to get some use out of them if i havent in a while, but that's usually my less common decision/choice.

 

[Rip Tide]

I have some pretty powerful slow action rods.
My Orvis Golden Eagle 8wt bends right down to the cork and casts like a cannon.
With a rod like that, you're propelling your line with the full length of the blank, rather than just tip action.
Wind or not you can cast a full line without even trying

 

[vpsihop1]

A lot of faster rods are so that you can make those casts that cut through the wind. Look at bonefish rods - the usual comment about them is they need to be fast to cut through wind on the flats. Of course you'll be under-gunned with a medium action rod in that situation.

For something like Carp, i like having a slightly slower rod because you can lay down softer casts, versus a fast rod where you either end up opening your cast (thus defeating the purpose) or you pound the water which scares the fish. If it's going to be a windy day, then i prefer a faster rod or i just dont fish, but the situation determines what i use.

For trout it of course will depend on much the same factors, as well as the type of fishing you're doing.

My point is, I often let the situation/fishing dictate what rod I'm going to use. Sure there are times when i'll take certain rods out just to get some use out of them if i havent in a while, but that's usually my less common decision/choice.

I'm going to disagree with you. I think a fast rod takes the possible variables away and lets you not worry about the situation. For example, I fish a 4wt Method most often. I pack a 7' sink tip and if it suddenly becomes overcast and starts to drizzle I can cast lightly weighted flies easily, and seriously fish smaller streamers, wind no problems, small flies hatching no problem it's a 4 weight, larger flies hatching, again, no problem lots of reserve power.

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[alansb1982]

Do NOT confuse rod action with rod material.

I may be wrong but I suspect you "like" those rods because they have more mass, and mass means more moment of inertia, and more inertia can translate to more "feel" especially on shorter casts.

I don't think I was. I like these two rods because they're built better than the Redington and TFO rods. The Redington was heavy, stiff, and had loose ferrules; the TFO had shoddy epoxy work. I'm not experienced enough to have an opinion as to why a rod feels the way it does. My interest in rods are simply to get a fly out on the water the way I want to get it out there without the equipment limiting my skills to do so. If I can do that on the cheap, all the better!