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Thread: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

  1. #31

    Default Re: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

    Quote Originally Posted by madison320 View Post
    Maybe I'm not being clear in describing the comparison. I'm comparing two identical length lines, one is gradually tapered, the other is level. Let's say they are both 40 feet. The thick end of the tapered line is the same diameter as the level line. Now assume the line is laid out on the water and you are roll casting. The only difference at the start of the cast is that the D loop of the tapered line is going to contain a tiny bit less mass than the level line so the starting energy, after completing the forward stroke should be practically the same, right?
    Yes about the same. The tapered line will have slightly less but that slight disadvantage is more than made up for by the advantage of the tapered line which has the dual advantages of less aerodynamic drag and greater preservation of forward velocity.

    However, the lengths of line do not even have to be the same at the start. As long as there is enough line in the D loop to allow the static roll cast to create the maximum forward line momentum nearly identical forward momentum and energy will be placed into the lines. Momentum is a vector and has direction and kinetic energy does not so I prefer momentum in this case.

    Your example of identical starting lengths of fly line does not mean that the forward momentum will be able to extend all of the line and leader on the water to complete the cast as the lines are lengthened. If just enough line was on the water to just complete the cast, there would be more tapered line on the water. A tapered line allows for the less energy and momentum loss during a cast. So starting with different line lengths is an implied presupposition in your original question of what line could be cast the farthest with a standard (static) roll cast.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  3. #32
    Join Date
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    Default Re: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

    I was once told by a fly line designer while aiding in testing a new line that a level taper will turn over energy better than a tapered one...

    Meaning a skagit head that is mostly level in taper from back to start will turn over more weight than one that has a taper to it...

    That would mean from purely a roll casting perspective, a double taper line would roll cast the best...

    All things being equal of course...

  4. Default Re: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    Yes about the same. The tapered line will have slightly less but that slight disadvantage is more than made up for by the advantage of the tapered line which has the dual advantages of less aerodynamic drag and greater preservation of forward velocity.
    I can see how tapered line will be both more efficient and less efficient. As you mentioned before, the thinner line will be more aerodynamic as it moves thru the air and probably as it comes off the water. Also maybe the added speed will make it "rip" off the water and that might reduce drag? But the thinner line will speed up the line and create more drag from the added velocity. I'm not sure which has more of an effect.

    ---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jds108 View Post
    The bolded part - that doesn't seem like those would be the two best lines to compare. How about saying "take two lines of the same overall weight: one is tapered along its whole length, the other is level"

    In your initial comparison, the level line has a lot more overall mass, and that's going to skew the comparison.
    I agree. My guess is that a level line will cast farther than a tapered one when both have the same starting diameter. BUT, in real life most tapered lines are a lot thicker at the starting point than level lines so in that case the thicker line will more than make up for the decrease in efficiency.

  5. Default Re: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

    Ok, I think maybe I figured it out (in my mind) and most of you guys were right that a tapered leader will roll cast farther. I kept thinking that if a tapered tip was designed to dissipate energy, by speeding up the line, and increasing drag, then a level line would be better. But then I thought, what if you reverse the taper and the line gets thicker? If you go from 2wt to 8wt obviously your loop is going to collapse. So I think the key is there's a speed RANGE that is most efficient, too fast and and there's too much drag, too slow and the loop starts breaking down and unrolling inefficiently. So let's say the optimal range for the line to travel is about 20 ft/sec. If it was level line your roll cast would start at 20 ft/sec but gradually slow down from drag and become more and more inefficient. But if your line was tapered it would also start at 20 ft/sec but it would maintain that optimal speed as the line got thinner.

    I'm hoping you guys are right because I just got the Wulff triangle taper today and I want it to work.

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  7. #35
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    Default Re: What taper design roll casts the farthest?

    Quote Originally Posted by think trout View Post
    Rio Single Hand Spey.
    Second that motion.

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