Worm testing.........not for dry believers.

[Bigfly]

Not trying to incite the guys who throw dries..testimonials about how you refuse to fish anything but a dry are not needed.........
but are expected anyway...."The politics of my passion" is how it reads.....
But, most people understand that fish feed subsurface 80% of the time. Waiting for risers can be a huge waste of time...as opposed to taking the game to them......
When the flows come up in the Spring and again in the late Fall, the flush carries scouring power.......
Worms show up in the seine at a higher number. (If you seine, you see this...)
I hate fishing a worm.....I was a dry fly guy at heart for decades.........and then decided to learn how to be productive.
When guiding, clients would like a fish, so I have to seasonally use a San Juanish worm of some sort, some of the time.
I have tied and fished all different kinds of worms in the many hundreds over the last 28 years......
They range in sz. from 3/4 inch to 6+ inches long.
Mostly chenille materials, but also shoe laces and floss, survey string, and any dam thing that might work.
So.....this Spring, the silicone "Squiggly" worm was in play locally, by lots of fishers.
I decided, even though I dislike them....to test out their usefulness....my bias shouldn't stand in the way of clients catching...
My bias stems from starting out at 6yrs old fishing a purple worm for big bass....feels like I haven't traveled far, going back to silicone...
The "real news" is fish love to eat worms..They aren't vegans....
Ran a chenille worm head-to-head with the silly worm.
4 out of 4 fish liked the silly........
Then I reversed their relative positions.....and continued testing....
4 out of 4 fish still ate the silly.
How do you know what works?
Test it for best results.
Even when the results aren't what you would want.....
If fish didn't eat their weight of worms, I wouldn't fish'em.......be a purist, or be productive....It's up to you.
As the retiring guide said in the last issue of the Drake said...."ultimately, the fish decide".

Jim

 

[c web]

Nothing wrong with the strictly "fur and feathers" guys, everyone needs to feel superior sometimes. I feel really stupid tying on one of those hideous rubber abominations, first time I lift the rod tip on something solid that feeling goes away. LOL

Seriously, interesting that the trout prefer the rubber over the chenille, I would guess more natural movement?

 

[Bigfly]

I've interviewed lots of fish on this subject.....they were tight lipped about why it works so well.....but yeah, I would guess it's the movement.
Locally, the worms will get over-fished and decline in popularity......fish aren't stupid...and they hate hooks.

 

[philly]

I've used the "squiggly wiggly" I think I've caught one trout on them. Caught a bunch of sunfish on them though. I took a different tack in "tying" them. They remind of the red wigglers I used before I took up fly fishing. So I ended up threading them on the hook, like I did with the live ones. Used a small circle hook, size 8 or 10 to tie them.

 

[Rip Tide]

I'm not a dry fly purist, but all things being equal, I'd rather get skunked fishing on top than watching a bobber

Like I've mentioned here a number of times, I used to run the state of Connecticut "pay to fish" ponds
Those ponds may have been right out behind the hatchery, but the fish in them weren't stupid. In fact they were highly educated.
The ponds themselves were chuck loaded with aquatic worms.
If you reached down and pulled out a handful of muck off the bottom, that muck would be alive with worms. 3/4" to 1 inch.
Worm flies that were static, like your basic San Juan wouldn't cut it.
These fish wanted worms with action.... real wigglers.
That meant marabou. Mini marabou jigs to be specific.
Different color every day too.

 

[c web]

I'm not a dry fly purist, but all things being equal, I'd rather get skunked fishing on top than watching a bobber

Oh no you didn't!! It is a STRIKE INDICATOR!

Were the mini marabou jigs just the garden variety crappie version?

 

[Rip Tide]

Were the mini marabou jigs just the garden variety crappie version?

They weren't store bought. Everyone tied their own.
1/64oz jig heads with a longish marabou tail... that's it.

 

[Unknownflyman]

Who said it was wrong to fish fly terrestrials, subsurface or otherwise? Who said it was wrong to fish synthetics or feather, fur, synthetic tied flies.

Who are they?

In my neck of the woods, most of the time you don’t see many risers, so either you can wait all day till the last hour at dusk and maybe there might be good dry fly action or pick a fly and a method that’s going to Catch trout.

I’m not a method purist. I’ve never fished a San wano but I would,there’s nothing wrong with that but I’d rather swing wet flies, or drift nymphs.

That being said, I hit a full blown hatch feeding frenzy once this year, early summer, in the last hour, one hour till the end of legal, dry fly action, every cast- fish on 14 to 17” browns on BWO’s Caught and released 50. Frantic action.

Memorable night of dry fly fishing.

While I did catch quite a few on dry flies over the year, really only that one night stands out fishing dry flies.

But yeah, I practice all the fly fishing disciplines, just one would be boring for me.

 

[ejsell]

I do like the squiggly worms but I haven't had a lot of luck keeping them in one piece for very long. Maybe I'm "whipping" them too hard but all of the ones I've tied have fallen apart pretty quickly where they are tied to the hook.

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[knotjoe]

If fish didn't eat their weight of worms, I wouldn't fish'em.......be a purist, or be productive....It's up to you.
Jim

My brotha’ from anotha’ motha! :frogdance

I’m so there with you on that one, Jim, although I do take a slighty more “organic” approach to the whole worm fishing endeavor.

Couple times a year I get the itch to ply the local flows for channel cats and freshwater drum. Yeah, I take a fair passel of ‘em on artificials thoughout the season, but nothing (and I mean nothing) even comes close the real thing. I advocate the practice for anyone wonders what else is really down there. Try fishing a real worm with all the accumulated skills of your angling life, not like you did when you were just a youngster with considerably less knowledge and angling talent. It’s rather interesting to see what we don’t catch on artificials, one may fish flies differently and often better after experiencing this periodically. I do.

(warning: endeavor not suited for those of delicate ego…it’s humble pie all the way)

 

[pnc]

In a way I understand those who call themselves purists. In that I'd rather see a top water strike. Love watching redfish miss poppers. Two , three shots before they go away is better than catching them on crabs. I get to laugh at fish, for a change.
But that's as far as it goes.

Kos balls (think that's the name). Dollar store junk. Silicone, 3" protruSasions in ball shape. Dollar gets you what looks like a handful of worms. # of people in club are using them. Mostly freshwater.

In salt more use closed cell foam. Of course worms are different than in freshwater. Skinny strip of foam tied on topside of hook w/dumbell weight behind hook eye on bottom. Sinks stands up waving with water movement. Found tying palmering chenille around end of tail to simulate feeding appendages draws faster strikes. That is in right situation. Dropped near tailing fish or mud clouds from fish working bottom. Some cut foam into pieces and use light mono & glue for added movment. Personally just extra work. But definitely a given situation fly.

........ pc

 

[k_e_v]

Jim, I got a few of those on my last Montana trip and they worked well. Look kinda funny in the fly box though and always give me a chuckle when i see them.

Fish what you want, how you want with any gear you want is basically my thought Just let em go and we are cool

 

[just4grins]

It's quite possible that rainbows and browns have crossed the tracks once in a while and danced with Sewer Trout. Once getting the taste of an exotic thrill they're "hooked."

 

[corn fed fins]

[poke]

When guiding, clients would like a fish, so I have to seasonally use a San Juanish worm of some sort, some of the time.

This is why I refer to the the SJW as a horrid piece of guide string.
Spaghetti and meatballs(when used in conjunction with an egg) Most served dish by our weekend warrior crowd around here. Especially in the redds.
Best fly to teach in an introduction to fly tying class.
One of the best two flies to give clients to snap off all day long. The other being an egg. Why waste valuable bench time?:icon_bigg

There was a sample pack in my Hareline package. I'm torn between using them for one of our kid's day outings or just throwing them in the trash to avoid starting bad habits.:lol2:

I'll give them to someone to tie. I'm not wasting MY hooks:biggrin:

--but--

There is a time and place for everything. Every successful angler knows this.

I just have to draw the line at a plain red anodized hooks when fishing the Juan. No chenille or rubber needed
At least a Pig Sticker requires an extra minute of tying time.

 

[james w 3 3]

Fish what you want, how you want with any gear you want is basically my thought Just let em go and we are cool

Best post of this thread!

 

[Bigfly]

20170610_160436[1] by James Landis, on Flickr

Although my post was on the worm.....what I wanted to see someone catch, was the testing.........
Most guys...Universal fishermen....don't think about what works and why.
They just go with their favorite fly.................
Ya want to get better, ask questions, and use some logical process.
How many even use a seine?
I use a worm when they are on the menu (in the net), not otherwise.......
And Walter Brown loves pink.....
Baby worms may work best.....they are white....and not sold in stores.
Getting skunked is pretty rare under an Indie, getting skunked on top is common.....
I only fish moving water, can't really imagine drowning a worm in a lake........

Jim

 

[bigjim5589]

I've never been much of a dry fly angler anyway, mainly because I chased bass or Stripers more than I did trout. But, I also like to use what works.

I tie & fish "worm" patterns if that's what you want to call them. What the fish takes them as may not be a worm at all, but only matters that they will take them.

This is more in line with the worms I like tossing! This one is about 8" long.

 

[karstopo]

20170610_160436[1] by James Landis, on Flickr

Although my post was on the worm.....what I wanted to see someone catch, was the testing.........
Most guys...Universal fishermen....don't think about what works and why.
They just go with their favorite fly.................
Ya want to get better, ask questions, and use some logical process.
How many even use a seine?
I use a worm when they are on the menu (in the net), not otherwise.......
And Walter Brown loves pink.....
Baby worms may work best.....they are white....and not sold in stores.
Getting skunked is pretty rare under an Indie, getting skunked on top is common.....
I only fish moving water, can't really imagine drowning a worm in a lake........

Jim

I've used some little white panfish plastic jigs with my fly rod and have caught some trout on those. They look like little grubs to me and seem to work better when the Navajo is a little up and muddy than when it is clear. I haven't fished them with an indicator but just toss them upstream and they bounce along the bottom. Maybe they look like worms or maybe they look like grubs. Do you ever get grubs in a seine?

 

[Bigfly]

Every stream has it's own menu.....
Compare your stream's bugs... to the stuff you buy. It often is different colored or sized.....even worms....
I use white "silicone floss" for the babies....a little later, after eating a few weeks of dirt they are bigger and pink.
Later still, they approach earth worm color, but not quite as big (2 inches).
I match the hatch with everything on the possible local menu.
Seine your water and tell me about
grubs.........
Can't say I've seen one in my seines....
But there is always opportunity for surprises.....some strange creatures lurk....that's what keeps me looking.
I don't overhand cast much anymore....
A Roll cast is softer on the worm.
Fewer tangles too...and no flies left in the bushes....
If you can't break the habit......
Learn to open your loop....you're not casting a dry.....



Jim

 

[karstopo]

Every stream has it's own menu.....
Compare your stream's bugs... to the stuff you buy. It often is different colored or sized.....even worms....
I use white "silicone floss" for the babies....a little later, after eating a few weeks of dirt they are bigger and pink.
Later still, they approach earth worm color, but not quite as big (2 inches).
I match the hatch with everything on the possible local menu.
Seine your water and tell me about
grubs.........
Can't say I've seen one in my seines....
But there is always opportunity for surprises.....some strange creatures lurk....that's what keeps me looking.
I don't overhand cast much anymore....
A Roll cast is softer on the worm.
Fewer tangles too...and no flies left in the bushes....
If you can't break the habit......
Learn to open your loop....you're not casting a dry.....



Jim

What kind of seine are we talking about? How big? I've used minnow seines in the surf here and it's always fascinating on what turns up, but the seine requires two stout folks to pull it through the current.

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