Regulations and habits in USA

maoitaly

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Hi,
just a question, I am Italian and in my country we ha problem that in trout rivers people can fish with natural lures (worm etc).
They can kill fish...
We have small no kill area for fly fishing only...
Is it the same in your country?
Thanx
Mao
Italy
 

denver1911

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Most places I have fished, the same is true. Some rivers, however, are Catch and release only or fly fishing only for the whole river.
 

knotjoe

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Yes, there are fly only waters.

As far as killing fish, with the advancement of modern circle hooks the natural bait crowd is considerably better than it once was in many waters and a wide range of species. Even the half awake “3 rods on forked sticks” angler has no trouble NOT gullet hooking with circles. Circle popularity is not all a result of this low mortality functional attribute, the hooks themselves are just plain easier to remove. Good design which often appeals most to the worst offenders of the bunch.

As far as lethal habits of American fisherman, I’ll put the modern soft plastic lures pretty high on the list for deep ingestion especially when used with oversized/wide gap hooks. Not the silicone squirmees of the fly world, but more traditional offerings like tubes and Senkos on J-hooks or EWGs. They go down fast, often hang deep, and their popularity in the trout world has grown considerably over the years.

Treble hooks are another problem especially when time-out-of-water is considered for a successful C&R.

Methods aside, we have a lot of bad habits here in the States when it comes to the photo-op on more delicate species. The Keep ‘em Wet campaign is catching on, but when folks really want the hero shot on Facebook those gills will get dry.

Although our behaviors are probably worse here than where you are, we have a lot of water and a lot of fish so it’s hard to invoke much change in angler behavior. Some of the bad things are strongly industry driven and quite compelling in their effectiveness. Large hooks of any kind, while popular on many flies and lures, are really asking for it on serious wounding and time-out-of-water. The actual mortality rate from some popular methods here is likely a great deal higher than anyone suspects, we just don’t see the death happen.

Don’t know what to tell you on the overplaying of fish on fly tackle, especially the trout and salmon. American anglers can get really bad here when they pick-up a flyrod and never even come close to tapping into the power of it. On some species it doesn’t seem to matter much, others it likely gets into lethal territory on a regular basis.

Sometimes we scapegoat on various groups, but in reality the belly-up fish can have a diverse array of potential suspects. Most of it's involuntary and perpetrators themselves are often naive of of their own culpability.

I think the fly crowd is probably better overall relative most other groupings, but again, it's the terminal tackle which lends itself well to this. No one is D-haulin' two sets of #2 trebles.
 

maoitaly

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The fact in my country is that the most quantities of fish area are for all fishing techniques... so, I think that is impossible to preserve fish in this way.
Government doesn’t invest in culture....
Is it the same in your country.
Thanx for all.
Mao
Italy
 

mcnerney

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Mao
It varies widely across the country, you just have to look at the fishing regulations for the water you want to fish and you can find most of the regulations online by looking at the state fish and game web sites. Some waters you can fish with any means, others with artificial flies only, some waters you can keep certain species of fish but must put back others, some have size restrictions. Some water is open all year, others are closed certain times of the year. It can be pretty confusing, so you have to look at it before fishing.
 

karstopo

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Mao
It varies widely across the country, you just have to look at the fishing regulations for the water you want to fish and you can find most of the regulations online by looking at the state fish and game web sites. Some waters you can fish with any means, others with artificial flies only, some waters you can keep certain species of fish but must put back others, some have size restrictions. Some water is open all year, others are closed certain times of the year. It can be pretty confusing, so you have to look at it before fishing.
I was going to say just this as our fish and game laws are made on a State by State basis. So we have at least 50 different governmental bodies setting the rules for non-migratory types of fish and game.

Does Italy have a national governing decision making entity or do the regulations vary region to region within Italy? Is there an effort there to study the fish and ecology and then for the government to base decisions on the science?

I think the NAFFF is really good about educating and spreading the word about how to care for fish. I know I’ve learned a lot about fish handling here. I think the trend towards conservation and being educated about the resource is on a good trajectory. I know the state of Colorado has some stream specific regulations based on the unique natures of each and that seems like a good model to my not-so-knowledgeable eyes.

I can’t imagine a national fish regulation policy for non migratory types of fish. There’s just too much diversity of waters, climates and needs here. Maybe Italy is compact enough to make a national system work.
 

fr8dog

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Around here we have state regulations on size and quantity. Individual lakes can put more restrictive limits if they feel it necessary. State length for largemouth bass is 14" and 6 per day. A lake near my house had it at 22" and 3 per day. You need to pay attention to the rules, especially if you're fishing a new lake.

I keep a copy of the annual regulations in my boat and truck.
 

jaydub

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In my state, we have areas that are open to all methods, areas that are open to artificial flies and lures only, areas that require single point barbless hooks, areas that are fly fishing only. Some waters are catch and release. Generally, the catch and release only and artificial flies and lures only rules coincide. Others waters have various bag limits.

Even if you have lived and fished here your whole life, you need to read the rules every year, because they are ever changing.
 

knotjoe

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The fact in my country is that the most quantities of fish area are for all fishing techniques... so, I think that is impossible to preserve fish in this way.
Government doesn’t invest in culture....

Mao
Italy
Your government might just be investing in all cultures as best it can with regard to fishing regulations.

Careful on comparisons to the USA, Italy is roughly the size of California and your population density is vastly higher than the USA. General regulations might be the only way to regulate at all without cutting many folks out of the game.

Here in the States, we're fond of thinking our ways are the result of wisdom and responsible use practices. Sometimes they are, but it also has a lot to do with our landmass, population, and the feasibility of benefitting from all these diverse and specific regulations without too many drawbacks.

Not saying Italy couldn't improve it's fishing regs, but one has to be realistic with comparisons to the USA. It's a big place, be sure to visit, you'll see what I mean.
 

ia_trouter

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Greetings Mao

In general there is an attempt in the US to keep all types of fishermen happy. We have 50 different regulations for the 50 states. As Joe stated be careful with comparisons. The regulations for a US state with a population of 20 million will be different than a rural state with only 2 million. Some states are more bountiful in quality fisheries as well. VERY little of my state has water capable of natural trout reproduction. A portion of those waters have stricter rules to protect the resource. The state is well aware that if they over-protect from harvesting, they will no longer sell permits and the conservation and stocking programs wil no longer be funded anywhere near adequately. Fish and Game management is complicated.
 

corn fed fins

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Regulations here Colorado, USA, can be water specific. Management and regulations depends on "use". Angling here requires paying a yearly fee (IMO a tax) Many fisheries here are managed as "put and take". In other words, the fish are stocked and are removed by the angler. There are other waters that are not stocked and some partially stocked just to suppliment natural reproduction. It's so diverse that some are stocked with just a few numbers of a specific species as a trophy possiblity for tourists. So there exists no "blanket" management but diverse processes to achieve a specific objective for a given fishery. We don't always agree with this objective. Lol

Some management policies resulted in pillars of success while others are epic failures. IMO, different fisheries need different regulations because "use" can be highly diverse.

Culture? Big question there. Culture of anglers as group or sub groups ( artuficial, bait; bass, salmon; lentic, lotic....) How about politics of the area in which the fishery resides? Tourism/economic impacts? This is the short list. Management and regulation is not a simple topic and it makes it even more difficult when considering the culture differences between two nations of people.

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fredaevans

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Mao
It varies widely across the country, you just have to look at the fishing regulations for the water you want to fish and you can find most of the regulations online by looking at the state fish and game web sites. Some waters you can fish with any means, others with artificial flies only, some waters you can keep certain species of fish but must put back others, some have size restrictions. Some water is open all year, others are closed certain times of the year. It can be pretty confusing, so you have to look at it before fishing.
'What he said!' Even on a given river and time of the year the regulations can change. To make more interesting the Reg's can change over the course of the year on a given river/portion there of. This is usually caused by the 'projected run(s)' just didn't happen. Most of the Western United States rivers have both Pacific Salmon as well as Steelhead; depending upon what time of the year you will get one or the other (with over-lap).

Some you can keep, some (especially non-clipped Steelhead) have to be immediately revived and returned to the river. The clipped fish came from a Hatchery program. Non clipped are Natives. And yes we have 'gear restrictions' on a few of the river's or portions there of. The most famous is the North Fork of the Umpqua (fly only) river; fishing this river is a true life experience .. one exception .... get used to the idea you are going to fall in at least once.

My river, the Rogue in Southern Oregon also has a fly only season.

fae
 

maoitaly

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Hi,
Thanx for your replies... all.
USA is a very big country and you have to apply different regs.
Italy is very small but to much people living in it... perhaps...
We have to much people that kills the fish and some rivers are too polluted...
In Italy we don’t have salmon or steelhead... we have a fish that every year go in the river for reproduction from see that is called “cheppia” but nothing else.
We have beautiful place, fantastic food, wine etc etc but a bad government...
There are different regions but the legislation is similar because we have the same fish everywhere...
I think that in your great country you have a culture about fishing much more evolved. No kill is normal.. in Italy no..
Mao
 

fr8dog

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Hi,
Thanx for your replies... all.
USA is a very big country and you have to apply different regs.
Italy is very small but to much people living in it... perhaps...
We have to much people that kills the fish and some rivers are too polluted...
In Italy we don’t have salmon or steelhead... we have a fish that every year go in the river for reproduction from see that is called “cheppia” but nothing else.
We have beautiful place, fantastic food, wine etc etc but a bad government...
There are different regions but the legislation is similar because we have the same fish everywhere...
I think that in your great country you have a culture about fishing much more evolved. No kill is normal.. in Italy no..
Mao
We have different folks here. Some are fishing for food, some are strictly catch and release. Many are in the middle. I eat fish, but release most of my catch. I live by "limit your kill, don't kill your limit'.
 
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