Skunked again!

[pleasantvalley]

In my casual quest for learning more about trout fishing, I made yet another effort today to land one. I fished two spots, Antietam and beaver creeks in Maryland. Both were stocked last week and I was hopeful when I left the house early this morning that this would be my day.

Antietam was a bust. 20 or so local yokels we’re out spin fishing from the banks, walking up and down the stream dragging their lines in the water. I got pushed downstream to a nice riffle area with a few good looking eddies and a decent looking hole. Broke my first nymph off on a rock almost immediately, and as I was trying on another some jack wagon wades right through the riddles at a fast pace and sets up on the other bank lobbing a huge spinning spoon right back across at me. Having been forced out of the best looking areas by Bad fishing etiquette, I packed up and went to meet a friend at beaver creek.

After a quick stop at the fly shop there for a couple tips and a few new flies to try we headed off. I went fairly far downstream right off the bat, mostly to scout out some new areas. I identified a couple nice spots and began working back upstream. Got one lazy nibble on a midge nymph, but failed to react in time to set the hook. After a couple hours I stopped for a snack, and to finish off my coffee thermos. As I sat down I saw what appeared to be a midge hatch, and BWO hatch going off at the same time. Trout were surface feeding! And in good numbers! I calmly tied on a midge that matched as close as I had, and sent out a few short, very soft casts upstream to just above a small rock. All feeding activity stopped. I gave about a dozen more casts and drifted as best as I can back through the pool where they were feeding, but no luck. I thought I was just too late to the party so I reeled in and went to switch back to a nymph rig. As soon as I did it started again! Top feeding! I switched to a BWO thinking that’s what they were on since the midge didn’t draw any interest. Again they just stopped feeding. Feeling discouraged and hungry, I packed it in.

These rascals are fickle! I have been out a couple dozen times this fall/winter trying to get in to trout, but I just don’t get it yet. At least I identified some good spots, and saw some pretty cool feeding from very close. I’m tempted to get a guided lesson at this point. I’m sure it’s me doing something wrong, or at least not quite right. Still had a nice day, it warmed up and was sunny, and I got outside. Hopefully the upcoming stocked trout season will yield some sort of result. There is a very small stream that gets stocked, but no one fishes it as far as I can tell, very close to my house. I’ll be hitting it quite a bit in the coming weeks, hoping for better results.

 

[jspfishing]

MD have rules about hooks? You can tie a dry fly and a wet fly to cover both. Also, stockers are weird. They don't take the typical stuff. It's not like they were eating bugs and evading predators their entire lives. They don't seem to be as hatch strict as wild trout. You could toss a mop fly, san juan, or egg pattern and I bet that would crush them. I don't really fish nymphs, but I usually get stockers to hit a gold and copper Kreelex streamer or golden retriever.

 

[Joey Bagels]

Skunks happen. I got nada yesterday on my trip to the marshes to catch some redfish. Saw lots, but only after I drifted over them in my kayak. The ones I did see feeding had no interest in my flies. It happens. Still nice to be outside and on the water.


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[kentuckysteve]

Tie a few salmon egg flies and try them.Stocked trout love eggs.

 

[mcnerney]

A couple things come to mind. You mentioned at one point that you got a nibble on a midge nymph. This time of year the fish are just mouthing the fly, so you have to be on your A game and very attentive to the way your indicator is drifting, if you see anything at all out of the ordinary, set the hook. The other day I was nymph fishing at the tail of a run as the water slowed. This was my third time fishing this spot and I knew there was a monster fish living there, but he is located at the very end of the run and you can't get into a good position, so I drifted my three fly rig down to where I knew he lived, maybe 30-40 ft below my position (I know this is a low percentage deal as when you set the hook you are basically just pulling the fly out of his mouth). I had hooked into this fish two times in the past and he broke off within five seconds both time. Anyway, what I'm getting at, is that your indicator, this time of year, is not going under, it will barely change pace with the natural drift. You have to pay extra careful attention for any change in movement. Sometimes it will barely slow, maybe stop or possible just move sideways ever slow slightly. You suspect anything, set the hook.
You didn't mention how your are rigged. If your on highly pressured water you might have to go down on tippet size. Where I fish in western Wyoming I usually just use 4x tippet as the fish are generally big, but if I fish the San Juan river in NM, I'm probably going to be using 6x tippet.
You also mentioned changing up to dry fly fishing, generally I will setup my rig with 5x if I'm not on highly pressured water, but if not I will go to 6x with dries.
Last week on "Ask About Fly Fishing Internet Radio", they had a podcast by Nate Bromely from "Dry Fly Innovations", he only fishes with dry flies, even throughout the winter. I think you can get on that site and sign up for free and view the episodes in the archives for free for a limited time, it would be worth your while to listen to his podcast. As it certainly sounds to me that you did something to put those fish down, but without being there I can't imagine what it was. Dry fly fishing is an art that requires a careful presentation. If you line the fish with your fly line or slap the cast down on the water it will put the fish down.
i'd recommend doing a guided trip or finding a fishing club in your area. Your skills will improve greatly if you can find a mentor. Maybe a stop at your local fly shop and ask if someone is interested in helping a newbe.
Keep asking questions, we will try to help.....we were all beginners at one point.

 

[pleasantvalley]

Yeah I was using 5x tippet for the nymphs and 6x for the dry flies. This particular stream has stockers and a decent amount of what are now natives (a combo of some natives and some survivors from previous stockings). I was trying 1 nymph and 2 nymph rigs, dry flies by themselves and dries with a nymph dropped under. It’s only about 2 feet deep on average so I was trying to keep my nymphs about 4” off the bottom.

I felt pretty comfortable about my presentations. Overall pretty smooth, at least until the last few casts when I knew I had to pack it in. I was using 8’ leader with a tippet ring and about 18” of tippet. I tried to land the end of my floating line just behind the fish and the flies 10’ upstream from that. This spot was only about 10’ wide and I was fishing from about 15’ directly downstream of the ones I saw rising.

It is a highly pressured stream, and from the folks I have spoken to, notorious for being a tough spot to fish because of moderately high pressure, and being pretty tight with foliage. That’s kind of why I like it, seems like if I can beat this stream, I can beat any stream. I am thinking of inquiring at the local shop for a lesson of brief guided outing to get some instruction. This trout fishing thing is pretty tough to learn on my own, and very different from bass fishing that I usually do. Frustrating, a little discouraging because to my mind I am thinking I am doing everything the books and internet say to do, and I have been really paying attention to the conditions and insects present in the stream. Unsuccessful, but still pretty darn fun!

 

[redietz]

MD have rules about hooks?

No more than two flies.

 

[redietz]

I was using 8’ leader with a tippet ring and about 18” of tippet. I tried to land the end of my floating line just behind the fish and the flies 10’ upstream from that. This spot was only about 10’ wide and I was fishing from about 15’ directly downstream of the ones I saw rising.

It is a highly pressured stream, and from the folks I have spoken to, notorious for being a tough spot to fish because of moderately high pressure, and being pretty tight with foliage. That’s kind of why I like it, seems like if I can beat this stream, I can beat any stream. I am thinking of inquiring at the local shop for a lesson of brief guided outing to get some instruction. This trout fishing thing is pretty tough to learn on my own, and very different from bass fishing that I usually do. Frustrating, a little discouraging because to my mind I am thinking I am doing everything the books and internet say to do, and I have been really paying attention to the conditions and insects present in the stream. Unsuccessful, but still pretty darn fun!

I usually use about a 12' leader on Beaver Creek. It is, as you so say, a tough spot to fish. Instruction is not a bad idea. If you master it, you will at least have a good start on limestone spring creeks, although other types of water have their own sets of peculiarities.

 

[Bigfly]

In my casual quest for learning more about trout fishing, I made yet another effort today to land one. I fished two spots, Antietam and beaver creeks in Maryland. Both were stocked last week and I was hopeful when I left the house early this morning that this would be my day.

Antietam was a bust. 20 or so local yokels we’re out spin fishing from the banks, walking up and down the stream dragging their lines in the water. I got pushed downstream to a nice riffle area with a few good looking eddies and a decent looking hole. Broke my first nymph off on a rock almost immediately, and as I was trying on another some jack wagon wades right through the riddles at a fast pace and sets up on the other bank lobbing a huge spinning spoon right back across at me. Having been forced out of the best looking areas by Bad fishing etiquette, I packed up and went to meet a friend at beaver creek.

After a quick stop at the fly shop there for a couple tips and a few new flies to try we headed off. I went fairly far downstream right off the bat, mostly to scout out some new areas. I identified a couple nice spots and began working back upstream. Got one lazy nibble on a midge nymph, but failed to react in time to set the hook. After a couple hours I stopped for a snack, and to finish off my coffee thermos. As I sat down I saw what appeared to be a midge hatch, and BWO hatch going off at the same time. Trout were surface feeding! And in good numbers! I calmly tied on a midge that matched as close as I had, and sent out a few short, very soft casts upstream to just above a small rock. All feeding activity stopped. I gave about a dozen more casts and drifted as best as I can back through the pool where they were feeding, but no luck. I thought I was just too late to the party so I reeled in and went to switch back to a nymph rig. As soon as I did it started again! Top feeding! I switched to a BWO thinking that’s what they were on since the midge didn’t draw any interest. Again they just stopped feeding. Feeling discouraged and hungry, I packed it in.

These rascals are fickle! I have been out a couple dozen times this fall/winter trying to get in to trout, but I just don’t get it yet. At least I identified some good spots, and saw some pretty cool feeding from very close. I’m tempted to get a guided lesson at this point. I’m sure it’s me doing something wrong, or at least not quite right. Still had a nice day, it warmed up and was sunny, and I got outside. Hopefully the upcoming stocked trout season will yield some sort of result. There is a very small stream that gets stocked, but no one fishes it as far as I can tell, very close to my house. I’ll be hitting it quite a bit in the coming weeks, hoping for better results.

I don't usually use the whole block quote.........but all of this report was good.
One of the hardest things to teach fishers, is to cast less.........
Something I say constantly.....is "all it takes is one good drift"......because that IS all it takes.
We tend to think more drifts are better........
If fish stop feeding, you should stop casting until they start again.....you do need a lesson....to figure out what you did wrong....could be standing tall on a bank and waving a stick.....could be wrong fly....could be leader shadow.......could be (and most Likely) you don't have a perfect drift.
Any drag on your drift is as bad as all of the other bad things I mentioned put together....
bugs don't water ski generally....
Try dropping a knee, and water loading instead of overhand casting.....and mud yer leader......
Bet they eat next time..........Oh, and get a vial with rubbing Alch. to put a bug in....makes buying the right fly a lot easier....!
Let us know......

Jim

 

[pleasantvalley]

The alcohol vial is a good idea. My friend I was fishing with and I have been thinking we should make a couple fine screen nets to really see what kinds of bugs are in and on the water. That and some kind of insect field guide. Lucky for me my uncle worked as head entomologist for the Smithsonian for decades and probably knows more about insects than anyone in the world. So if I get stumped I can always ask him.

I think next outing I’ll bring a different rod. I was using a 5wt because The first creek I fished is much larger and without as much brush, but it was probably too much. I’ll try the 2wg next time, it’s shorter, but the spots I identified were very tight so short might be easier for me and present less shadow. I do try to be aware of my shadow, how visible I am, crouch down and stay as out of site and behind the fish as I can. Surely it’s a shortcoming with some part of my approach to the fish, whether that be my location and orientation physically, a casting or drift flaw, or improper fly selection. I think I will inquire at the shop about a lesson, the guys that work there are all very nice and pretty solid fisherman from what I can tell.

Trout sure aren’t like bass, in the hot months I usually canoe or kayak down the Potomac or monocacy rivers, or Antietam creek and identify godlike lay spots, lob a big popper or streamer out in front and let the bass chase the fly. This drifting of flies is relatively new to me, it’s like a whole other world of fishing. Pretty darn fun though, even if I do suck at it for now!

 

[Joey Bagels]

You can lob streamers at trout too. You’ll catch the bigger ones too. They behave a lot like bass when they reach >14” or so. Chasing minnows, crawfish, and mice. Drifting dries catches fish of all sizes. But retrieving streamers and big topwaters can get the bigger fish.


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[Bigfly]

I would say, it won't be long......
By your approach.
Ask the guide about mending......it is the art required of moving water.
It is what closes the sale. Lift the line off the water, don't do the dry fly flick....

Jim

 

[pleasantvalley]

I’ll have to try swinging a few streamers soon then. That I’m pretty sure I know how to do. I’m excited to try some new water soon as well. There is a very small creek close to my house that gets stocked, and from what I hear has natives in it as well. I have lived here almost 8 years and I can’t remember ever seeing anyone fish it. It’s even smaller and tighter than beaver creek, so should be a solid challenge! I didn’t have time to fish too often in years past from working way too much, I always tried to maximize my free time by floating the bigger rivers with my wife, and fishing was secondary. Now that I have a good schedule and am home mid afternoon, I can stop on my way home for an hour or two and fish! Looking like a good fishing year for me, plus I’m going to Florida in may to try out some salt water fly fishing, pretty excited about that.

I’ll figure this trout thing out, just need to put in more time on the water.

 

[flytie09]

Pleasantvalley......welcome to the world of fly fishing. This is what draws us to it. It is a challenge.

I have a couple comments. As far as the traditional tackle guys crowding you out. Don't take offense. It just is this way. I try to set up a good 100 yds away from spin fishermen. First because they will out fish you 9/10 times and secondly the fly fishing "rules" don't apply to them. If you remember back to those days....it never was a big deal to be fishing shoulder to shoulder. The fly fishing code of conduct or etiquette is foreign to them and I don't expect them to adhere to them. Be polite, say hello, ask "how ya' doing?" and move along to the next spot.

Your decision to hit the fly shop for intel was a great move. These guys know the rivers, the bug cycles, and what techniques work.

The rising fish to midges and BWOs was a good sign. You were in the right spot at the right time of day. Now the fact the turned off and on after you cast to them says you should look at a few things. First off.....I haven't a clue the stream you were on. But we've all been there if you've been fishing long enough. If it was a pressured stretch....these fish might have been spooked. They might have been line/leader/tippet shy or you spooked them with sudden movements. This all means you need to work on stealth. Slow movements to the waters edge. Crouch down to stay outside their window of view. Make very few if any false casts. Don't wade in far if at all. And go lighter and slightly longer on your leader and tippet. I almost always start the day sub-surface with a few exceptions. For nymphing to spooky trout... I choose the tiniest of indicators and small flies. Very little long distance stuff. Work close and then progress to the far bank.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. For those of us that can't get out there right now. We can live vicariously through others. Keep at it...it will come.

ft09

 

[scottmd10]

I fish Beaver often especially in the Winter and it definitely can be a challenge. If it makes ya feel any better I went yesterday and received a proper skunking of my own. One thing I have learned from fishing there is to avoid wading as much as possible and try to make that first cast count. Another thing I have noticed is sometimes I need to drop that fly just a foot above the fish to get them to take it. Some of the flats on Beaver can be almost impossible to get a good cast in without spooking the fish but that is part of what makes the place fun. If you fish it enough you'll find some days you can't seem to get a bite while others they seem to take everything you toss at them. There are also plenty of other great places in MD to try and get your trout fix if you want to try something different than Beaver.

 

[silver creek]

As I sat down I saw what appeared to be a midge hatch, and BWO hatch going off at the same time. Trout were surface feeding! And in good numbers! I calmly tied on a midge that matched as close as I had, and sent out a few short, very soft casts upstream to just above a small rock. All feeding activity stopped. I gave about a dozen more casts and drifted as best as I can back through the pool where they were feeding, but no luck. I thought I was just too late to the party so I reeled in and went to switch back to a nymph rig. As soon as I did it started again! Top feeding! I switched to a BWO thinking that’s what they were on since the midge didn’t draw any interest. Again they just stopped feeding. Feeling discouraged and hungry, I packed it in.

I notice that every time you switched to a dry fly, the fish stopped feeding on top. This happened twice. Either it is a huge coincidence or you spooked the fish with your casts and that is why they stopped feeding on top. Did you consider this possibility?

I have several other questions for you.

How long did you observe the feeding fish before you put on your dry fly?

Did you actually see a fish take an adult fly OFF the surface?

Was the small rock you cast to at the top end of the feeding fish, at the middle portion, or at the lowest feeding fish?

How much sunlight was there? Sunny? Overcast?

 

[pleasantvalley]

I notice that every time you switched to a dry fly, the fish stopped feeding on top. This happened twice. Either it is a huge coincidence or you spooked the fish with your casts and that is why they stopped feeding on top. Did you consider this possibility?

I have several other questions for you.

How long did you observe the feeding fish before you put on your dry fly?

Did you actually see a fish take an adult fly OFF the surface?

Was the small rock you cast to at the top end of the feeding fish, at the middle portion, or at the lowest feeding fish?

How much sunlight was there? Sunny? Overcast?

To answer these questions, I am absolutely considering, and think it’s highly probable I did spook the fish. My delivery could definitely use some fine tuning. I’m still trying to learn where and how to place the fly, and the floating line for the best presentation and achieving as little drag as I can.

I sat on the bank, watching this particular pool and the feeding therein, for about 5 minutes before I decided on a fly. I saw several fish take food from the surface, as well as several breaking the surface with their backs from what appeared to be feeding just below the surface. The pool is just behind a fully submerged rock, and the current flows around it on both sides. There was also a root ball in the opposite bank (upstream and across left from where I was) that was creating a small eddy. I stood just barely in the water, maybe a foot from the bank, and downstream about 15 feet from where the fish were. I stood there for a good minute or two before I even cast to make sure I wasn’t disturbing them. That was pretty much the only spot I felt comfortable getting a cast out from.


To Scottmd10:
Beaver creek is a fun spot even though I never catch anything there. Lots of other good spots for trout in the area I need to explore as well. I’m 15 minutes from 2 good trout streams, 2 more that I hear can be hit or miss but have some real linkers in there, and a good sized stocked lake, not to mention the north branch, Yough, castleman, and savage all being doable for day trips and camping. Washington county MD is a pretty solid spot to live if you like to fish!

 

[silver creek]

To answer these questions, I am absolutely considering, and think it’s highly probable I did spook the fish. My delivery could definitely use some fine tuning. I’m still trying to learn where and how to place the fly, and the floating line for the best presentation and achieving as little drag as I can.

I sat on the bank, watching this particular pool and the feeding therein, for about 5 minutes before I decided on a fly. I saw several fish take food from the surface, as well as several breaking the surface with their backs from what appeared to be feeding just below the surface. The pool is just behind a fully submerged rock, and the current flows around it on both sides. There was also a root ball in the opposite bank (upstream and across left from where I was) that was creating a small eddy. I stood just barely in the water, maybe a foot from the bank, and downstream about 15 feet from where the fish were. I stood there for a good minute or two before I even cast to make sure I wasn’t disturbing them. That was pretty much the only spot I felt comfortable getting a cast out from.

First what you did right. It was great that you observed for quite a while before you decided what to use.

So it sounds like you definitely had fish feeding on dries and I agree that the fish that were breaking the surface with their backs were feeding on emergers. One thing you did not mention was whether the rises were quiet or splashy and so I will assume that they were quiet. The other thing you did not say was whether you actually saw the natural that they took off the surface; that is, could you identify it as a midge or the BWO?

Also, you did not say whether you could see the rising fish holding under the water. In a situation like this, where the fish are spooky, it is best to target individual fish and not fish the water. If you can spot the fish, the depth it is holding at gives you and idea of how large it's window is and so you get and idea of where to cast the fly.

I suspect you used an overhead cast and that mean it was more likely that the fish can detect the rod moving in it's window. You may have positioned yourself OUT of the window of the of the fish you were targeting, BUT the rod could still be in the window of other fish. So you can spook the other fish and they will spook the fish you are targeting. You need to be mindful of any trout that can see you.

In a situation like you describe, I like to use a sidearm cast if at all possible. I would have tried to get to the right side and parallel to the fish. I would stay really low and make a right handed sidearm OVERPOWERED curve cast. The leader will curve around and the fly will enter the window first, before the tippet. If the fish does not take, let the leader and line drift downstream to your side of the stream before picking up and trying another cast. I don't know if this is even possible with how your stream is laid out. If a regular sidearm cast is not possible, and the stream is really tight, a bow and arrow cast may be what is needed.

Another strategy is to use a dry dropper with the dropper being a zebra midge for midges or a WD-40 for BWO emergers.

 

[pleasantvalley]

That’s a great tip and along the lines of what I was trying. It was a pretty sunny day, and this position I was in had quite a bit of glare, I couldn’t really see where the fish were laying in the water, I could really only see them when they were 4” below the surface and rising or retreating. I did see both splashy and less dramatic surface breaks. I could see some feeding clearly on what was on top. Now what that was on top, I’m not certain. To be honest I kind of got wrapped up in the excitement of seeing such feeding in this creek, which I don’t see often.

Next time I will push through the wonderment, and take a hard look at what is going on. I’m certain that is part of what went wrong. I was watching what was happening, but missed an important part of what was happening.

I’m going to focus on nymphs next outing. Seems like even when they are surface feeding, nymphs should still have a good probability of catching a fish. I’m looking in to how to properly rig a nymph line currently, both without and with an indicator. I gotta say though I have a personal stigma against bobbers. I have never much cared for fishing with them, I feel like I have a better connection to the water without, but I haven’t tried an indicator yet so why not try it. BTW I started a thread specifically about learning nymphing in the cold water section, so pop in there with any specific advice, please!

 

[rc51sport]

I would definitely suggest using indicators. I was like you, didn't want to use them. Thought I was doing pretty good nymphing without one until I saw other fisherman using them and what they were catching. I realised that most of my hookups nymphing without indicator were "accidents". Usually caught while getting ready for another cast, didn't know there was a fish until I unintentionally set the hook. The takes can be incredibly subtle.
Of course different situations will require different set ups, I'm still learning that.
Good luck!


-Dan