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  1. Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    As I stated earlier Orvis is attempting to grow their market in the face of market change. Harley Davidson stuck with making large, shiny, loud, under-performing motorcycles. In the face of challenge from Japanese makers, Harley bet on marketing it's image rather than improving it's product. It worked for a while. Now all the Harley riders you see are older, greying men and women. Their market is literally dying out from underneath them.

    Orvis is very similar. Those wanted traditional high end gear and accoutrements are falling off. There is a lot of competition that is both younger and less expensive. Their image is struggling a bit. In marketing you have the Four P's: Product, Place, Price, and Promotion. Changing any one of those can have a large impact on your performance.

    Product. If Orvis made lower quality rods and gear mass produced in China they could increase sales but would likely harm their image as a quality gear company. They'd also likely have to reduce their warranties.

    Place. Orvis is already sneakily selling through the big outdoor retailers. They could sell at Dicks and Walmart but the sheer number of products they've have to produce to fit into those retailers would be astronomical. They'd also have to bend to the channel power of retailers and cut prices. They'd end up undercutting their traditional shops.

    Price. Orvis could wholesale lower their prices, but this would be difficult to do without affecting quality. Orvis has always been a high-end brand and trying to compete full scale on the lower to mid-range would require they face a lot of established competition and also undercut their gear that makes them the most money.

    Promotion. Here's where they're attacking. There has been a larger than normal effort to promote the H3. I've seen all sorts of promotional ads from people hitting buckets in windows to leaders of online fishing communities pushing them hard. They're also trying to feed off the empowerment of women trend right now. Yes, this could offend some of the traditionalist men, but right now society is in general shaming those individuals, right or wrong.

    Of the 4 P's the main ones changed are product and promotion. The graphics on the Recon and H3 are meant to break from the traditional, classic old-man vibe Orvis has always fostered. They changed their product appearance without actually changing their product. Like it or not it's a smart move that generated some buzz.

    Their ad with the voicemail is a little over the top. Trying to get women into fishing is going to be a tough row to hoe. The instagram fishing babes are not helping get women into fishing. I think that is the biggest road bock right now. A 40 year old mother of three doesn't want to be compared to a 21 year-old wearing a thong bikini holding a fly rod. Yes there are April Vokeys out there but there are a lot more that aren't. Orvis is attempting to maintain their image as a high end retailer while expanding their base. They went after younger men with "improved" aesthetics and more stylish ads. They're going after women with female targeted events and ads.

    There's only one problem: As much as there are perceived road blocks to fishing, women by and large historically have not been as interested in the outdoors. Yes there are plenty that are die-hards right along side their husbands. The problem is that when a family exists, women by and large are more concerned with the well-being of the family than their own self-interests. You're not going to get the mom of an under 5 year old to buy a $1000 fly rod when she's debating on a mini-van vs and SUV. When she's thinking about purchasing a new car seat or the shoes for ever-growing feet, it's hard in these economic times to justify such a large purchase.

    I don't know where Orvis got their 30% numbers but in my years fly fishing I've only ever seen one woman not my wife on the water. In my opinion your best bet on getting women involved is encouraging the mother to get involved. "Don't let dad have all the fun.... Orvis." Show families fishing together, etc. Maybe this new initiative will be successful. It seems like it's more target to the "women are superior" types. My wife watched the ad and rolled her eyes.

    If you want to get into politics fly fishing players in general seem to be pushing left. Trout Unlimited is more about playing an antagonistic role to industry than it is to improving the fishing access to the lay person. The fly fishing base is outdoorsmen, far and away. I understand the need to grow the base in challenging times but you need to encourage the continuation of your base before chasing other markets. The biggest demographic that is under represented by the high end gear chains is the college to new grad male. Those are the people looking for cool new products that want the best. They're the ones with the most free time to spend on the water. Find a way to engage them and you'll see the most growth.

    hokie.

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  3. Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    I thought the ad itself was weird, opening with that angry answering machine diatribe. Also, if Orvis wants to "break down those barriers," they should first identify those barriers (a numerated list would be helpful) and then identify the tactic to be used to address each one. Personally, I only see one barrier, not exclusive to women: Orivs products are not inexpensive. If they plan to do some price-cutting, I am all for it.

    Just anecdotally, I have a wife, two daughters, and three sisters; none of them have any interest in fly fishing, and there are no barriers: I have enough equipment to outfit all of them (as well as the rest of the neighborhood), and a fishing license is only about 25 bucks. My wife and I go kayaking a lot; she loves kayaking, but has no interest in fishing while we are out there. My other close female relatives also enjoy a variety of outdoor sports (kayaking, hiking, sailing, scuba diving, snorkeling, etc.) but fishing just doesn't appeal, and I don't think the Orvis ad is going to draw them in.

    And now I am going to engage in heresy: there is a lot of mention of attempts to "grow the sport," but I don't know why that is important. People who enjoy a particular activity will do it, those who don't will find something else that is fun. I don't understand why we should browbeat people into trying this specific sport. Based on the catalogs I get in the mail and the ads I see online, I haven't noticed that tackle is becoming harder to find due to the decline in participation, and as someone else mentioned (and maybe I am being selfish) it is nice to find good uncrowded fishing water.

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  5. Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by gpwhitejr View Post
    I thought the ad itself was weird, opening with that angry answering machine diatribe. Also, if Orvis wants to "break down those barriers," they should first identify those barriers (a numerated list would be helpful) and then identify the tactic to be used to address each one. Personally, I only see one barrier, not exclusive to women: Orivs products are not inexpensive. If they plan to do some price-cutting, I am all for it.

    Just anecdotally, I have a wife, two daughters, and three sisters; none of them have any interest in fly fishing, and there are no barriers: I have enough equipment to outfit all of them (as well as the rest of the neighborhood), and a fishing license is only about 25 bucks. My wife and I go kayaking a lot; she loves kayaking, but has no interest in fishing while we are out there. My other close female relatives also enjoy a variety of outdoor sports (kayaking, hiking, sailing, scuba diving, snorkeling, etc.) but fishing just doesn't appeal, and I don't think the Orvis ad is going to draw them in.

    And now I am going to engage in heresy: there is a lot of mention of attempts to "grow the sport," but I don't know why that is important. People who enjoy a particular activity will do it, those who don't will find something else that is fun. I don't understand why we should browbeat people into trying this specific sport. Based on the catalogs I get in the mail and the ads I see online, I haven't noticed that tackle is becoming harder to find due to the decline in participation, and as someone else mentioned (and maybe I am being selfish) it is nice to find good uncrowded fishing water.
    Growing the sport is important because if you don't have enough participants you'll be marginalized. Virginia doesn't appreciate the trout it has. Most sportsman view trout as meat and nothing else. The wild trout streams within a quick driving distance are filled with stockers and fished out. No one appreciates the fish. Many trout fishermen use fly rods for the extra length to dangle minnows and and powerbait in front of the fish.

    My fishing options are limited because there aren't enough fly fishermen to influence the game department. More fishermen would potentially mean more competition but also more catch and release waters open to fly fishing only.

    Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk

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  7. #44
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    Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by james w 3 3 View Post
    BINGO!!

    Although I would have phrased it along the lines of “to a woman there isn’t much difference between overtly blocking participation and simply failing to create an environment where women feel welcome and respected.”

    We men have not experienced a lifetime of so often being told, overtly or covertly, “no you can’t, no you shouldn’t, no you’re not really welcome here”. Women have, and even if you haven’t managed to perceive it they are very aware of it.

    I applaud those here who have gone out of their way to be welcoming of women, or anybody, to our sport.

    I’ll apologize for what might be perceived as a pretty strident tone. But this topic does bother me, particulary when people who are oblivious to the experiences of others just want to dismiss a situation with “being too pc”.
    It is being too PC. Women aren't shrinking violets, so let's stop treating them like they need special help to do stuff. They can handle going fly fishing. I think it's insulting to pretend otherwise.

    You're preaching to the choir here, without knowing it. I have three daughters. One of them cannot participate in most activities because she has serious health problems, which is a whole other impediment to a number of things. The exclusion she faces is on a completely different plane than women feeling unwelcome in fly fishing. I get exclusions and barriers, but real ones, not fake ones a la Orvis.

    My other two daughters are fly fishers, and hockey players. You want to talk about women participating in an activity that men dominate, and women are not welcomed by many? Try hockey. They have played both co-ed and girls hockey. I run the girls program they play in, I coach a girls team, I recruit girls to try hockey, and run an all-girls hockey league out west. Through it all, those two have seen and heard everything, and they continue to play the game because they love it. We don't "break down barriers", we provide opportunity.

    And they fly fish because I have taken them fly fishing--providing opportunity--and they enjoyed it. That right there, more than any other reason, is why girls do or don't fly fish--someone did or didn't take them fishing when they were a kid. It's not "barriers". This whole thing with Orvis is a bunch of PC rubbish. The idiot on the voicemail that opens that Orvis 50/50 silliness will always be with us, no matter how many times we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. That guy's voicemail is a cliche right out of PC Central Casting. I don't think Orvis's video is helpful in achieving their aim, anyway. You open that video with that moron on the voicemail, and you've told women that they are going to have to deal with a bunch of knuckle-draggers in fly fishing. They can wax poetic on that video all they want, but what woman would want to try fly fishing after that opening? Orvis actually invents barriers to fly fishing that do not exist, and that they're going to break them down. Seriously, how does that attract women to the sport? They've just told the women that it is harder to get involved in fly fishing than it actually is. That's just a dumb ad campaign, that puts political correctness ahead of their market, and reality.

  8. #45
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    Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    I doubt that voicemail in the Orvis video is an actual customer. I have produced a few videos during my corporate career and would never put a customer's voice on an ad without a talent release. Most likely that's just part of the video production created by an agency...which would make the video even more offensive and unethical.
    MIKE ADAIR - Exploring New Mexico landscapes through fly fishing, golf, and art.
    @mikehrnm

  9. Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hokiehunter07 View Post
    My fishing options are limited because there aren't enough fly fishermen to influence the game department. More fishermen would potentially mean more competition but also more catch and release waters open to fly fishing only.

    Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk
    Oh, I see. Thank you for the explanation.

  10. #47

    Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by gpwhitejr View Post
    ... Personally, I only see one barrier, not exclusive to women: Orivs products are not inexpensive. If they plan to do some price-cutting, I am all for it.
    In fairness to Orvis, they actually have about the broadest product line price wise. At the top is the Helios 3 at $850 (right up there with the other top-tier manufacturers), the Recon line at $450, and the well-respected Clearwater rod is $200. Then they offer the Encounter outfit (rod, reel, line) at $169. Similar with reels, waders, lines, etc.
    Zackdog lives.

  11. #48

    Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    A mfg taking advantage of the current social climate to boost sales??? I believe that is called advertising. IF ANY publicity is good publicity, 5 pages worth of buzz here (whether you care for their "pitch" or not), the adman/writer probly got a bonus. NO COMPLAINTS about sports illustrated or Victoria secrets objectifying or making unrealistic standards of beauty for woman. Move along, nothing to see here.
    Last edited by PASTERCASTER; 04-16-2018 at 11:24 AM.

  12. Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    Whenever you hear or read the phrase politically correct or PC over and over and over again to justify their beliefs, or lack of them, you know what and who you are talking to. Save your breath it aint worth the aggravation and it is pointless to try.

  13. #50
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    Default Re: Your take on Orvis' 50/50 On the Water Ad?

    I coach water polo at the high school level and have coached at the club level as well. I coach boys and girls. Over the years my girls program has grown to be a strong program easily averaging 5o girls where I struggle to get 15 boys. It seems that you have promote each program differently, I believe that this is the same with fly fishing. Starts at an early age. I don’t think it needs have an adversary tone,

    There is a need for growth in fly fishing for the businesses to survive, growth means profit. Our economic system works only with growth when there is no growth company’s go out of business and the industry balances out with profit and margins.

    On a side note I wish my wife would fish, part of the reason I want to get a kayak and start fly fishing out of one as she does kayak so we could share part of it

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