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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    SF Bay area California

    Default Re: Are lighter WT rods easier to cast?

    Your video was fine a bit far away but not too bad.

    So what I saw is you should focus on improving your back cast. Your forward cast is pretty good if you get a better back cast and let the line straighten behind you then you will improve greatly.
    By the way what a beautiful area you live in...

    I notice that your primary issue is your backcast is too slow and does not have enough acceleration and then not a strong enough stop.
    Also the stop of the cast is mushy (a technical term) because you open your wrist at the end of the cast.

    To assist in fixing this try using Gary Borger's pointer (index) finger on top (three point) grip it is really hard to have a mushy open wrist when using that grip.

    While looking at Gary's grip also notice his elbow position at the top of the cast and the height of his reel in comparison to his head. Then go back and look at your cast (can you see the difference).

    Gary uses his shoulder and full arm muscle rather than just his elbow and wrist. You should too but,I have seen people do okay with using just their elbow and wrist as long as they have good acceleration and a good stop. Elbow casting actually works quite well for shorter casts with shorter and lighter rods.

    Another good person to watch for the cast is championship fly caster Chris Korich.

    I have taken lessons from both gentleman and they are both great casters and instructors...

    For your type of cast I tell most people to make a couple of false casts and then stop your rod at the top most position.

    1. At top most position is your rod pointed toward more toward the sky or more towards the ground? If the tip of the rod is pointing more towards the ground or straight behind you than instead of the line going straight back and straight forward to form a tight loop, it forms an arc and the line follows the arc which causes a poor cast and a big loop. You want the tip of your rod to point more towards the sky (2 o'clock is good) at the top or end of your back cast. That will facilitate a straighter trajectory on the forward cast. The grip Gary uses should help you position the rod correctly.

    2. Accelerate into the backcast and do a hard stop. It is the acceleration and the sudden stop that will propel your line correctly behind you.

    3. Don't forget to wait for the line to straighten behind you after the stop. If you start your forward cast too early you might hear a snap like a whip. Avoid that at all costs by waiting for the line to straighten behind you before starting the forward cast.

    You have good acceleration on your forward cast (The stop on your forward cast could be more abrupt) just remember to do the same acceleration on the back cast and stop when the rod points to the sky or slightly back of straight towards the sky (2 o'clock). Do not let the tip of the rod point directly behind you or towards the ground.

    Try that and see if it helps. post again if you want so we can see if we can help you more. Again having a good instructor would be best.

    Another great caster is Tim Rajeff


    Tim C.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Laramie, WY---Cape Coral, FL

    Default Re: Are lighter WT rods easier to cast?

    Chris is arguably the best casting instructor going right now.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Brazoria County, SE Texas
    Blog Entries

    Default Re: Are lighter WT rods easier to cast?

    I learned on a 7 weight. One thing that helped me was thinking about the plane of the rod tip. I did notice in the video posted the rod tip not staying on plane but dipping in a convex arc at either end. Convex arcs unload the rod spilling much of tension in the spring/lever of the rod. I don’t believe you are really feeling or getting much of a load on the rod.

    I also filmed my cast early on. It really help me see how I was doing things differently than in a good cast.

    Just try to relax and tell yourself “I’ve got this” even if that isn’t necessarily the case at the moment. Play around some at this stage. Maybe try casting with your off hand. If you have done spin casting, that muscle memory works against fly casting. Your off hand won’t have any negative muscle memory.Try different arm angles like dropping down to 45 degrees instead of just being at almost upright all of the time. At some point, just by accident and being playful, you might stumble upon a few better casts and build on those.

    These are just some ideas. You have gotten a lot of great ones and nice links. I took the path of never taking a casting lesson and think that’s definitely a viable option. It really isn’t as complicated as it may seem at this point. Once you feel and understand how to consistently load the rod, you’ll be catching fish before you know it.

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  6. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Riverside, CA

    Default Re: Are lighter WT rods easier to cast?

    I think you are breaking your wrist and are way past the 10 to 2 position. to help this look into gary borger's three point grip it help with this issue.

    I have fly fished for 30 plus years and i still get instruction.

    If you are fishing for trout, the 7 is way to much of a rod, but first work n your casting

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  8. #25

    Default Re: Are lighter WT rods easier to cast?

    Quote Originally Posted by LimerickShaw View Post
    Hi Tim,

    .... here is some video I got yesterday. There is 8 minutes worth - I'm sure you won't want to watch the whole thing but maybe this will help you guys help me
    One thing I notice right is that at 2:12, you push your left line hand forward as your right hand comes forward. It is almost as if you are reaching forward with both hands. The left hand should be independent of the right hand, There is no reason to reach forward or to hold your line hand forward, each time you cast. Let the line slip through between your left index finger and thumb and maintain a balanced stance and not reach forward with both hands and arms and the end of the forward cast.

    The second thing I noticed is that you NEVER followed the line down to the ground with your rod tip as the line landed on the ground. Your rod tip was NEVER lower than at your waist level and your rid tip was NEVER pointed at the ground. Lefty Kreh’s first law of fly casting is that the fly cast cannot begin until the end of the fly line begins to move. If you had lowered the rod tip as the line was falling to the ground, the line would be straight to the rod tip instead of dropping from it at waist level.

    When the cast begins with the rod tip at waist lever instead of ground (water) level, you have LOST the energy you could have put into the back cast with that additional lift of the rod tip. This is energy that you could have put into making a stronger backcast and it is wasted because you ignored the first rule of fly casting - preserve every inch of the potential rod stroke length since the fly cast cannot begin until the end of the fly line begins to move.

    I suggest you lift your rod hand higher on your back cast higher. Look at how much Chris Korich elevates his casting hand compared to you. By limiting the elevation of your casting hand, you have shortened your back cast stroke. Either you need a faster stroke OR you need to lengthen your stroke because your stroke does not extend the fly line properly.

    Note that Jason Borger lifts his hand to his ear during the Foundation Casting stroke. Note also where the forward stop is on the forward stroke.

    The stop motion photo below comes from the Henry's Fork Lodge owned by Nelson Ishiyama. Nelson and I are college buddies, and he is the editor of Mel Krieger's book, The Essence of Flycasting.

    Another rule of fly casting is that the fly line will go in the direction the rod tip was traveling at the stop. Note how the loop is directed straight forward and not down because the ANGLE of his rod is still ELEVATED and the rod tip was stopped while it was going FORWARD and not down.

    Here's Nelson's explanation of the "perfect cast".

    Because the backcast angle is NOT elevated enough AND you lay your wrist back too far, your backcasts have WIDE loop and some of your back cast almost hit the ground behind you.

    Your forward cast is NOT good. The stop point is too low and the loop is very wide. Your cast is not as bad as a “windshield wiper cast” but you stop too low in the front and too low in the back with a rounded wild loop on both casts. You can see the wide loop on the images below and the downward trajectory of the loop means the line will hit the water before the end of the tippet causing a line splash. You can also see the forward position of your line hand as I noted earlier in my post.

    I will leave the images on the post temporarily so you can see what I am observing.

    I suggest on the forward cast to stop higher which will give you a tighter loop and then follow the line down with your rod tip all the way to the ground. The lfy line and leader MUST unfurl ABOVE the water.

    Here are some casting threads:

    Casting...What does it take...?

    Casting style - action preference...

    Over or under lining a rod, what are the advantages and disadvantages?

    Frustrated... thinking about giving up fly fishing.
    Last edited by silver creek; 05-15-2018 at 01:14 PM.


    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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