Bugs disappearing

Thunderstick

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Wondering what your seeing in your streams. Here in TN a fly fishing club works with our Veterans group and they take samples and look at aquatic insects. Over the past few years it seems the hatches are smaller and less often and to confirm their last study they did yielded very poor results. What are you seeing in your local streams?

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flytie09

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I have lived in SW Va for the past 15 years. I fish the local freestones and blueliners around here. Maybe I'm not doing a good job of looking for insect activity....but my observation is that there just is not that much. I do see some Baetis nymphs and some Stonefly shells on the bridges once in a while. But, I rarely dry fly fish as I just don't see alot of risers. I'm very curious as to why this is. Now you have me thinking and I might have to lift a couple rocks the next time out.

Now I also visit the TN tailwaters once in a while during this time - SoHo. I see a plethora of biodiversity there. Baetis, Sulfurs, black fly, midges, crane flys and a skittering caddis once in a while. Maybe this and tailwaters in general are a little more consistent with conditions that foster insect activity. pH, Alkalinity, temperatures, flows?

I grew up fly fishing in upstate NY. I've been back very few times to trout fish since. Insect activity 30 years ago there was amazing. Isonychia, caddis, Green Drakes, March Browns, Light Cahills.......all were healthy and prolific at this time.

Recent observations and what I've read from surveys by Cornell and ESF along the Salmon River, NY tailwater are aligned with what I see for TN tailwaters. Stonefly, mayfly, caddis and midges are all present in very healthy numbers.

These are my observations.
 

huntschool

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thunderstick:

I think one can only derive some info (data) from such samples related solely to the drainage they are sampling. Jump over two drainage's and one could easily find much better or even much worse conditions.

Stream bed activity, rainfall, logging, agricultural operations and even sun light penetration to the water surface (water temps in some cases) can have an effect.

As flytie09 I grew up in the NE and fished the Catskills and West Jersey as my home waters. Hatches were prolific for the most part and as many know are the stories dreams can be made of. I have found here in the AR/MO/TN/KY areas most folks talk about fishing nymphs and midges because there are no good "hatches." I am not sure that is totally correct from my experience. Most waters seem to have their own personality relative to food sources and we just need to find what they are and fish them.

I am sure some waters have declined in quality for whatever reasons. However we must determine if this is a short term decline from whaich the water will recover or is it a long term decline that will continue.

Just my thoughts.
 

bumble54

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Hot topic in Europe, just how much damage have we done the natural environment?, everything seems to be out of balance.
 

stenacron

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I agree with Huntschool here as the OP suggests a broad-stroke issue, when in fact every body of water needs to be evaluated individually.

Even the source of the information needs to be accounted for. Are these true, benthic macroinvertebrate studies being carried out by aquatic biologists, or just some passionate anglers kicking stones and netting samples?

If just curious about what other anglers are seeing... I have seen it go in both directions. My home waters back in PA and now here in UT all have their own stories of diminishing (disappearing) hatches, while other waterways that have cleared from past contamination issues are rebounding with improved insect diversity.

Sometimes the results are obvious... the "old guard" back on the Bushkill Creek (Lehigh Valley) in PA would talk about Green Drakes and Isonychia's so thick that their cases covered every exposed rock. Never saw a Green Drake over my lifetime and the occasional Isonychia produces an audible "WOW" from anglers that have grown accustomed to species more tolerant of the silt-bottomed streams resulting from man's "progress."

Any number of factors can affect macro populations (temperature, organic pollutants, substrate, other). Baseline study/data is needed and only periodical sampling and evaluating future results can truly determine if insect populations are diminishing, increasing, or changing.
 

Bigfly

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Unless a benchmark study was, or is done, you will never know......human memory is not regarded as reliable.
I regret that locally we didn't do a study....before.....we built this place out with mansions and golf courses..

Jim
 

corn fed fins

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I'm willing to bet you are witnessing natural population dynamics and maybe even stream dynamics. I have seen changes in streams and lakes; natural shifts in entire stretches, reaches, and even one basin. A flash flood knocks out one hole and created another. Sediment loaded reaches from a slide 12 years earlier turned gravel to silt bottom and slowed the water for hundreds of yards. With these changes so changes the entomology.

Populations go up and down and a cycle can be years or decades. The are are predators, grazers, shredders and filter feeders. These populations are all interdependent and, at the same time, some independent. Populations can also vary up and down the river, laterally, and a sample can be inadvertently skewed by the time the sample was taken (day, night, spring, summer, fall, pre/post hatch). Other impacts to these populations are water temp/dissolved gases, flow, detritus composition/ nutrient load, light penetration, etc.. So these cycles can be very complex.

I saw the giant stone fly hatch here peak almost two weeks early this year, early hatch. This was the result of a very mild winter and low flows. Last year we had record flows during the same time period, weak hatch. The year before the flows were normal but a wet rainy cool spring, delayed hatch. All three samples, if taken on the same day of month over three years, would have yielded three vastly different results. In other words, three years is nothing in the scheme of insect populations and can't be used to infer population trends. Want trends then you better start the baseline studies now so they can be assessed in +10 years. Still laughable IMO.

Number of risers? Some days rises are everywhere while other days none; it can vary as much as one evening to the next. Watching PMDs float by and no takers? Clouds of caddis swarming the shoreline and no splashes? Really? For every one fish feeding on the surface there are 10 feeding below. Where is the easy food source? It's drifting by underwater. Transported directly to the mouth of a waiting fish the emerging insect is an EASY meal requiring little to no exertion of energy; potato chip eating sofa rider watching the game. And, countering what is drilled into the angler's head, the worst fishing can be during an intense hatch.

I've noticed less risers over the years....I've noticed more people as well. Some of the best dry fly fishing I've seen is in the depths of winter today when only the insane have walked in to fish. Think about conditioning. Why would a fish stop eating during the best time of the year? It wouldn't and won't. It just changes its habit. The reward for this change is more food, easier food, and with less disruption in the process. I think numbers of people have conditioned feeding habits on many stretches. Taylor River. (I use this river a lot as an example because it's full of conditioned fish and just about everyone has fished or read about it. lol). Sure you can catch fish on dries. There are days when dries can be very productive. Overall though, if you want to catch the big fish or numbers of fish you will nymph, even during hatches. Why would a fish expose itself if it doesn't have to? It won't. Why focus on a dry only to stop when the next angler walks up, next splash of a fly line, or the way wrong bug?

Diminishing hatches? I have yet to witness this anywhere I have fished in over my 40 years of angling. Intensity depends on year; dynamic populations. Yeah, I hear stories of how thick hatches used to be and I take them with a grain of salt. These are from the same guys that sat around the shop and call giant stones 'Hellgramites'. Sorry, but many of the 'old timers' never left 50 miles from where they lived/died and knowing the difference between species, casings aside, is beyond the knowledge of the vast majority of the fly anglers today despite the availability of picture ready information. I get texted all the time from guys asking "What's this bug...'shell'....nymph?" Their knowledge of aquatic entomology begins and ends with newest and hottest fly pattern and are amazed when they find out the real bugs are not purple, don't sparkle in the light or glow in the dark.

So, before determining the storm direction by testing the wind with a licked finger, a look at doppler would be in order. Surface winds don't mean a damn thing and could possibly result in one being caught in flashes of negatively charged conclusions.

My grain of salt
 
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knotjoe

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I'm willing to bet you are witnessing natural population dynamics and maybe even stream dynamics. I have seen changes in streams and lakes; natural shifts in entire stretches, reaches, and even one basin. A flash flood knocks out one hole and created another. Sediment loaded reaches from a slide 12 years earlier turned gravel to silt bottom and slowed the water for hundreds of yards. With these changes so changes the entomology.

Populations go up and down and a cycle can be years or decades. The are are predators, grazers, shredders and filter feeders. These populations are all interdependent and, at the same time, some independent. Populations can also vary up and down the river, laterally, and a sample can be inadvertently skewed by the time the sample was taken (day, night, spring, summer, fall, pre/post hatch). Other impacts to these populations are water temp/dissolved gases, flow, detritus composition/ nutrient load, light penetration, etc.. So these cycles can be very complex.
Very nicely put.

Hard to assess with many variables and darn near impossible to predict with any accuracy in a lot of cases. Keeps things interesting and is something to be appreciated in terms of how the natural world works.
 

scotty macfly

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I could understand this if it was just happening in a few areas. But like Bumble54 said, and I have read this myself, this is also happening in Europe, plus Great Britain. And I'm sure in other areas as well.

But I also agree with corn fed fins when he mentioned floods and such. But this issue of diminishing numbers of insects is happening in areas that have had no flooding. Natural population dynamics, and possible stream dynamics, all over the world at one time, the timing of it happening at once doesn't seem right to me. I think it's something bigger, possibly climate change, but I'm not a scientist.
 

Bigfly

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Corn fed is correct about variability. ....
Stones are a very old specie, and in 165 million years there had to be some years with more than other years...
If they don't show though....then something has changed for the worse.
But, if you don't have a benchmark study, no one will even listen.....
That's the issue here.
We have a study in progress....but 30 years ago would have been better.
I do notice that hatch charts are not as close to accurate as when I started in the 70s....now, I fish what I see......
I feel climate change, I know as a youth I had to summit a peak by 12:00 pm or get struck by lightning.......now, it rarely booms at all. I figure we humans have about the same time sense as a mayfly..........

Jim
 

stenacron

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There are overlapping conversations here; the global insect/pollinator concerns and population crashes, natural selection and redistribution due to catastrophic (natural) events, and the ongoing fight to preserve coldwater resources from various manmade forms of destruction.

Now we all don’t have the same luxury as Corn Fed Fins has to live in a land where the expansion of civilization has had zero negative effects on the rivers and streams for over 40 years. [poke]

I can tell you from personal experience and tabulated data from qualified professionals that it is quite common for flowing waters in the eastern US to have lost or diminished aquatic insect populations due to a variety of reasons… mostly manmade.

In my old stomping grounds, the Lehigh Valley area of PA, most of the clinger type mayfly species have diminished to the point where it was exciting to see just a few on the water or have completely disappeared. The culprit for the most part is dropping water levels (lower/slower flows) and heavy siltation from the explosion of development that took place there in the 80’s thru 00’s. Yes, there are still plenty of Baetis, midges, and scuds to keep the trout and the anglers happy, but these species are also some of the most tolerant of organic pollutants thus will be present in numbers when it’s nothing but a trickle with turds floating by.

Those that monitor water quality use aquatic biologists to perform macro studies to gauge overall population changes as well as species being replaced by others. Every aquatic insect has biotic index (BI), a value assigned to it based on its tolerance for pollution. Some species have a 0 as in zero tolerance for anything but the cleanest water. Others range as high as 8 or 9 and are capable of flourishing in sewage ponds (midges for example). Biologists sample the streams and count the species… the cumulative BI is averaged out and the biotic index range that the number falls under determines the quality of the water. Of course these studies are often published and should be of great interest to anglers as they will point out hatches and population densities of what/where the trout menu looks like on your favorite river.

Here’s kind of a Dummies Guide that I posted a while back for collecting/evaluating macro’s for angling purposes, but the concept for monitoring streams rivers is quite similar: Holiday Inn Express Guide to Macro Study

Now in that particular example shown in the article, we were actually using the study to show water quality improvements to a local stream that had been left for dead in the 60s and 70s and cleaned up quite nicely to the point where its now home to some of the best hatches in the area with a wild trout population to boot and fresh regulations by the PFBC to help protect what has returned.
 

stenacron

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I can tell you from personal experience and tabulated data from qualified professionals that it is quite common for flowing waters in the eastern US to have lost or diminished aquatic insect populations due to a variety of reasons… mostly manmade.

In my old stomping grounds, the Lehigh Valley area of PA, most of the clinger type mayfly species have diminished to the point where it was exciting to see just a few on the water or have completely disappeared. The culprit for the most part is dropping water levels (lower/slower flows) and heavy siltation from the explosion of development that took place there in the 80’s thru 00’s.
Headline from today on one of the aforementioned Lehigh Valley limestoners...

43-year study of Bushkill Creek yields 'concerning' results | lehighvalleylive.com
 

bumble54

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Took a walk along the stream where I started fly fishing at the age of 8. Bone dry, no fish, no fly life and yet, in the field at the side of the stream a broken slurry pipe was oozing it's filth into the watercourse, hundreds of butterflies sipping the minerals from the stinking slick. Butterflies, we are told, are becoming very rare and need their habitat protecting, perhaps this is the habitat insects prefer rather than our idea of a pristine habitat.
 

lightline

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Strictly anecdotal here, but I've been fishing the same western rivers in Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana every year since the very early 80's, and mostly from June-October of those years. I frequently fish the same rivers and creeks the same weeks every year. I've seen the hatches on every single one of them get sparser and sparser for the most part. There are still those days, but far fewer of them. The whole Green drainage in Wyoming. The Platte drainage in WY. Upper Wind/Bighorn in WY. Silver Creek, Henry's Fork drainage in ID. Madison/Gallatin/Jefferson and their tribs in MT. The timing of the hatches has also moved earlier about a week or two, on average, though timing varies and is less important than density. Tricos, for example, show up much earlier than they used to. The big June bugs come a little earlier (Drakes, Salmonflies, etc). I keep logs, and have since 1981. I go back through them. I go back and look at my old photos. There were more bugs then than there is now, and that's my story, and I'm sticking to it and going to my grave with it. I can't offer any why's or explanations. Just call it as I see it, regularly, for decades. Those I speak with on these rivers and streams, who've been fishing there as long or longer than I have, say the same thing.

The one exception is the Livingston, MT spring creeks. They fish the same for me in June, July, September, and October as they did in the early 80's, and 90's, and ever since. There's "normal" seasonal and yearly variances, but not by much.
I see the same number of bugs over the course of a few seasons as I ever did. Timing, you can set your calendar by, over a few seasons. Hmmm.

And the winter hatches on my local tailwater are as good, or better, than they ever were! Hmmm again. Decent baetis hatches in January, February, and early March. Midges galore all winter.
 

dillon

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Tailwaters are great trout streams because of cold bottom released water. Some western tailwaters have suffered from low winter flows in recent drought years. Flows are reduced to keep reservoirs full for irrigation needs for next seasons crops. when rivers are extremely low macro invertebrate habitat is destroyed.
 

sweetandsalt

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I agree with many of you that without ongoing scientific data, angler subjective observations are questionable. However, anecdotally, on waters I'm familiar with over decades, I perceive a distinct diminution of aquatic insects, especially mayflies. This seasons PMD hatches in Idaho and Montana were the sparsest I've ever observed. OK, it was also a colder, wetter season than I've experienced since the late 70's.
 

knotjoe

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Bug populations do go through cycles but where 'we' screw up is the over use of pesticides.
Read the label: "2oz per gallon of water:confused:" ..... 'I bet three (or four) would be better!"

fae
Yeah...problem is it takes 5 oz to reach effective levels on resistant bugs. There's the recommended and "safe" concentrations, then there's the effective concentrations which are more than a bit higher.

Same for herbicides, the South American Amaranth (Palmer, Redroot Pigweed, etc) has become Round-Up ready to a point of pointlessness anymore in the midwest. The amount of pre/post emergent sprayed on fields and the concentrated cocktails used are downright scary. Hardly works anymore, either.

Don't get me started on residential turf grass fanatics and the chem use they embrace. Sometimes I'm surprised this stuff doesn't do more damage than it does to the local creeks.
 

bumble54

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Replaced the tramlines in our locality, asked the guys what they were using to fix the rails in place, hardener he says, none the wiser I pointed out that it was washing into the local stream, the stream is white from bank to bank for over half a mile, they couldn't care less and neither could their boss who shrugged his shoulders and walked away. Sometimes you feel the battle is lost before it's begun.
 
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