Shuffling

[dillon]

The conversation on the Pellet Fly thread got me to thinking about my shufling story. Three years ago SweetandSalt and I were fishing one of our favorite Montana Tailwaters. We were fishing a pretty popular area that features a wide shallow gravel bar. Large Rainows and Browns are known to congregate there. On this day there were only 2 or 3 other guys there. They were dead drifting nymphs on the gravel bar in the middle of the river. Below them S&S found a riser on the far bank and I wandered further upstream looking for one. Well above the nymphers, I waded over to the far bank near some good holding water and waited for a rise. Shortly, a Pmd's started funneling down the seam next to the bank and I nice head appeared. I waited until it got into a nice feeding rhythm and began presenting a dun down stream to the sipper. After awhile the large rainbow ate the fly and I netted and released it after a short but throb felt fight. No other fish rose so I waded back across and laid on the grassy bank to take a rest.

I was starting to nod off, when a loud whoop or two brought me back to consciousness. One of the nymphers had just netted a large rainbow for his partner. Then they started fishing again. I watched as one guy would standing and shuffle his feet while the other position himself below him and cast up below his partners feet. They hooked and landed another fish and then exchanged places. At this point I got up and very politely told him that shuffling wasn't cool and the local fly shop had written a note in their newsletter to anglers asking them not to do it. He got upset and retorted that it was no different then me casting my dry fly against the bank where feeding fish were rising and eating bugs. He was in fact just casting his fly into feeding fish as well.

I sat down to scratch my head over that one, while he walked off upstream in a huff. Within a few minutes I was approached by a state fish and game officer. While he examined my license, I told him about my encounter. He basically said okay and went upstream to check more anglers. I saw him spending quite some time talking to my "new friend". As he came back by he explained to me that I may think shuffling is unethical, but that it was not illegal. He went on to say that he just wanted everyone to have a good time, implying that it was good for license sales. Then he told me that if I did not like the act of shuffling that, I should fish elsewhere, if I see people doing it.
After he left, the shuffler walked by, flashed a wry smile again commenced his shuffling routine right in front of me. Without a word, we left...

Well the next year, the sign posted above, was in the parking lot. Although shuffling may not be illegal, I think it is as it is akin to chumming; putting any substance in the water to attract fish. Although a shuffler isnt putting a substance into the water, her is purposely dislodging a food sustance form the gravel, which is attracting fish. I wish the sign would have been there to to discuss with the LEO and the shuffler.

There, Iv'e done my job to educate my fellow forum anglers. Although I know I'm probably preaching to the choir...

 

[zjory]

I’ve never heard of this. So the idea is dislodging food to make them feed actively thereby upping the chances they’ll eat a nymph?

 

[dillon]

I’ve never heard of this. So the idea is dislodging food to make them feed actively thereby upping the chances they’ll eat a nymph?

Yes, it's known as the "San Juan Shuffle." On some rivers in some places, trout will line up below a wading angler, because they have learned that a wading angler dislodges food. Some guys purposely shuffle their feet to dislodge the food while dropping their nymph into the mix. Or, another angler will cast up into the chum line made by his shuffling buddy.

 

[sparsegraystubble]

I had sort of a similar conversation with a guy at a bridge over a spring fed river in central Oregon.

There had been a hatch of golden stone flies and they were crawling all over the bridge and surrounding vegetation. It was midday and no fish were rising. He was picking up stone flies, breaking their wings and tossing them in the water. It wasn’t long until he got a couple trout to start working on those crippled flies,

He then grabbed his rod and started down to begin fishing to the trout he had chummed. He had the grace to become embarrassed when I asked him if he was going to be proud of taking those fish.

He didn’t apologize, but he turned around and stalked off without making a cast.

Why would anyone do that?

Don

 

[zjory]

Yes, it's known as the "San Juan Shuffle." On some rivers in some places, trout will line up below a wading angler, because they have learned that a wading angler dislodges food. Some guys purposely shuffle their feet to dislodge the food while dropping their nymph into the mix. Or, another angler will cast up into the chum line made by his shuffling buddy.

That’s wild. Strange that people that want to fly fish also want to do that.

 

[lightline]

There's a similar sign on the BH (maybe its this one) Shuffling stinks. Its called "sport" fishing for a reason. Chumming is frequently done by saltwater anglers. I know bonefishermen who have chummed with shrimp and then cast the fly. I have reservations about all of it, though I have chummed sharks to the boat before and then cast a fly at them. It was cool a few times, but in time I resorted to trying to hunt them like any other flats fish. I guess in my mind there may be different standards for different places and fisheries. Chumming in the open offshore waters is commonplace. Shuffling the trout rivers just seems wrong because it makes it too easy and takes out any skill or technique whatsoever. These fisheries are more fragile to begin with.

 

[Bigfly]

I have seen a guide stand up stream of his client and shuffle......Some folks don't care how they catch, as long as they do. Some places it's illegal.......but its unethical everywhere....
It's why I say there are two kinds of fishers. Consumer and connoisseur.........
The main reason it's frowned on is how it impacts the bug population....
Personally, I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't catch a fish without a shuffle.

Jim

 

[proheli]

To me the question is, "how much damage are you willing to do in the activities of your choosing."

Just walking in the stream bed is going to be killing at least a few bugs and disrupting the natural habitat. Of course, mowing the lawn and trimming the trees does the same thing. Building a road or building a city has enormous harmful affects on the environment, killing and displacung anumals in untold numbers. And then of course there is eating. We raise it and grow it and then kill it just to survive. My justification for the harm i do while fishing is this, "It is such a brutal and murderous world, that small pains like a prick in the mouth really are acceptable in the game of life and the realm that we call sport."

For me, ruining the stream bed and different forms of chumming are over my personal lineof ethical operation, but I do see the whole thing, the conundrum of "ethical behavior in sports" to be a big gray area.

So, I was on the San Juan river about a week ago. As carefully as I could I walked a little ways out to the place I had chosen, - I was up from Texas Hole a couple of hunderd yards. Only a short distance and just light walking disrupted the river bed. Within a few minutes I had a line of five fish leading away from me floating over the MINOR silty churned-up line that was forming below me. I was about knee deep + a few inches. The first fish, and I am not exaggerating, was 20 inches long, and less than that from my boot. Right on his tale was the next fish and so on. it was very interesting and educational. It made you feel like the Pied Piper.

 

[sjkirkpa]

I, like zjory, never heard of this either. In all my many years of fishing, it never crossed my mind to even think of doing this. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

It certainly seems unethical, I guess, but as noted above, some saltwater fly fishers chum. But I guess the ocean is such a vast space compared to a mountain stream, that maybe something needs to be done to draw the fish in. Or like the folks who fly fish for big billfish that troll with hook-less dummy lures to attract the fish and then cast to them when they are in range. I haven't done either in the salt, but to each, their own (within proper limits, of course).

Ethics aside, when the fish aren't on their redds, I really doubt that it causes too much environmental damage because the stream bed gets disturbed on a regular basis by natural causes anyway (but maybe I'm wrong) . And if fish are on their redds, then people shouldn't be wading there and fishing over them to begin with.

 

[Bigfly]

I've been tempted on the San Juan, to drift a worm to that pesky fish hanging in my downstream shadow........especially before I had my Midge game on.....if you aren't fishing well, I can understand how a guy might weaken.....of course, since a warden may be watching with ticket book in hand, it was easy to resist....
Out west we have a few spots that just get pummeled by the hoards of fishers....
Hot creek for one......40 years ago we waded it, but with the increase of humans, it's now discouraged.
When hundreds of people wade regularly through a stream it hammers the bug population......you don't even have to shuffle..... that does even more damage.
And basically you are lowering the bar to ground level to step over.......for a fish.

And, I see no correlation to chumming in salt. You aren't disturbing the sea floor.....

Jim

 

[redietz]

Shuffling is totally beyond the pale, IMO.

OTOH, I'm more than willing to take advantage of it when done inadvertently by float tube riders and kayakers. I'll position myself in pool I'll position myself in a pool immediately below a riffle that's too shallow to float. Inevitably, when the floaters have to get out and walk, they dislodge food items -- especially those in tube, since they're often drunk. This has proven an effective tactic time and again. There have been days when every fish I caught was in a time period of +/1 one minute of a party of drunks floating by. (And I'm talking about 10+ fish days.)

I'd rather the floaters weren't there in the first place, but given the lemons, I might as well make lemonade.

 

[sjkirkpa]

I guess I was thinking too narrowly when I said that I suspect that this shuffling behavior probably doesn't do too much damage to the stream bed. I've never fished one of these rivers that see as much pressure as some that you guys fish, so my perspective is perhaps off. I suppose on those super-crowded rivers, if everyone was doing this, it would be a mess and certainly have some negative impacts on the river. I apologize for not thinking broadly enough.

On the other hand (and I'm not defending shuffling - it's not good manners, to say the least), I was out the other evening on one of the larger rivers up where I live and I watched a mother doe trying to get her two fawns across the river about 125 yards above me in a shallow (ankle deep or so) crossing.

It was fun to watch - the mom clearly was on a mission to get her babies across the river and back into cover. The kids, on the other hand, were doing what all kids do - playing. They were jumping around, play fighting, getting up on their hind legs and wrestling with each other. All the while the mom had this look on her face just like human mom's do when trying to get the kids to cooperate (Ok...maybe I am anthropomorphizing too much - but that's what it looked like).

Anyway, the point is, I could hear rocks being kicked over and the bottom was certainly being made a mess of.

So while not defending shuffling, these sorts of bottom disruptions happen all the time. I'm sure these fawns upset more rocks and dislodged more insects than I could have done without putting serious effort into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if fish take advantage of this feeding opportunity and have been taking advantage of it long before unthinking fishermen started doing it on purpose.

 

[pcolapaddler]

I've fished in fresh and salt using flies, other artificials and bait.

I see a significant difference between chumming and shuffling.

Chumming is the application of introduction of bait or scent to attract fish. I can't recall an instance where I have seen it cause damage to the habitat.

I've not witnessed shuffling, but it sounds as though it can't be performed without causing damage to fish and insect habitat.

Some folks shake tree branches to dislodge insects or walk the grass at the waters edge to 'chase' bugs into the river.

Hunters plant food plots for deer and use mechanical feeders. Fishers use bait, scents and other means of enhancing their prospects of locating fish.

Add enhancements if you desire, but seek to avoid damaging habitat when possible.

Sent from an unnamed device running an undisclosed OS via a third party application.

 

[flytie09]

Shuffling to me is unnecessary. It’s on par with chumming in my mind. I mean the “San Juan Shuffle” has been known about for a loooooong time. Guides have been known to chum for steelhead w/ cups of eggs. Heck I just watched a Fly Fishing Film tour movie where they drove over a wooden bridge back and forth to knock ants loose and then proceeded to clean house. Doesn’t make it right.

We’re not subsistence hunter gatherers anymore. Fly fishing is a recreational hobby. We should be as sporting in the pursuit of these animals as possible.

Does there need to be a sign, paragraph in a rule book or an initiative to do what’s ethical or sporting?

Know the rules.... and think twice is all I’d ask.

 

[el jefe]

For some rivers, I don't think shuffling damages the river bottom any more than wading does. Take the San Juan, for instance, birthplace of the eponymous shuffle. Areas of that river get waded on so much that there will be very little left that does not get stepped on within a short period of time, yet bug life is prolific.

I suppose if I were fishing for a meal, I might shuffle or chum, but I only fish for sport. So to me, it's not about shuffling to entice fish. I want to catch the fish in as natural a state as possible, and that's just how I roll. And when you catch a fish in its natural state, you learn more about fish behavior and lies than if you create an artificial circumstance. You can't apply any analysis to the catching of a fish if you shuffle. Perhaps you'll catch more fish in the short run, but you won't become a better fisherman.

 

[bumble54]

Now having recently helped dig out 10 inches of silt that had built up on a local stream due to very low flows, it's been a dry year with many local waters bone dry, I can't help but wonder whether shuffling really does that much damage on some rivers/streams, one good flood will do more remodeling of the stream bed than a lifetimes shuffling.
Raking for Gudgeon was a common practice in Victorian times, of course not many of us have a manservant willing to stand waist deep in the river upstream with a garden rake these days. Gudgeon dipped in flour and fried were considered a delicacy.

 

[flytie09]

Shuffling I would think would have little long term impact on the stream bed or the aquatic critters..... I can't see this as an argument against it. A good heavy storm or a herd of Elk comes walking through would do more than an angler doing the truffle shuffle.

Bugs are pretty resilient and numerous in the grand scheme.

 

[alpobodog]

The San Juan is my home river and I fish it regularly. The good fishermen know to keep your feet dead still. If you move your feet you pull all the fish out of the hole or run and they line up below you. Wading to a spot will have the fish lined up below you but if you keep your feet still they will eventually move back into the run where you can catch them.

 

[el jefe]

I've been tempted on the San Juan, to drift a worm to that pesky fish hanging in my downstream shadow........especially before I had my Midge game on.....if you aren't fishing well, I can understand how a guy might weaken.....of course, since a warden may be watching with ticket book in hand, it was easy to resist....

I was up there in June with my dad, and had that same feeling as the fish stacked up at my feet. So I grabbed my net out of my belt, and scooped up the little *******.

 

[silver creek]

This one is not a hard call.

The purpose of the San Juan Shuffle is to disturb the river bottom to dislodge aquatic invertebrates but the purpose of wading is not intended to disturb the river bottom.

We judge behavior on intent.

If you foul hook a fish unintentionally, that is part of fishing. Intentional snagging is not and is illegal. That is why they have different names for two different behaviors. The intent of the fisher is part of the definition of the verb.