Do you fish emotionally or logically?

Bigfly

Well-known member
Messages
3,376
Reaction score
629
Location
Truckee, CA.
If you work in a shop, you see "normal" human fishing behaviors......
People fishing out of a warm feeling about the fly that worked last time.
Even if the last time was 10 years ago.
I used to fish early on with a Royal Humpy......I didn't know any better.
But since I learned bugs are always changing, and that fish appreciate the effort you put into choosing your fly, do you even try to match the hatch?
So, are you an emotional or a logical fisher?
From my time on the water, I would say 70% of the fishers never learn the bugs at all........just fish their "lucky" fly.

Jim
 

karstopo

Well-known member
Messages
3,598
Reaction score
1,978
Location
Brazoria County, SE Texas
I always want to determine what a fish is feeding on. In my experience, fish can selectively feed on one particular type or species of forage or they can be feeding on a variety of forage. If they seem to be by observation feeding on one specific forage, then I'm going to select a pattern to fish that strongly suggests that type of forage and aim to present that pattern in a way the natural is presenting. If there isn't a clear pattern of feeding on a specific organism, then I'm likely to select a pattern that is known to be forage and present the fly in a way that is natural to the forage I intend to replicate.

But there is often several fly patterns available that suggest or imitate a particular organism. In that case, I might choose one pattern that I like to tie and/or fish more than an alternative.
 

redietz

Well-known member
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
1,385
Location
Central Maryland
I'm not sure that it's an emotional/logical difference so much as reasoning from first principles vs reasoning empirically.

I went through a phase where I didn't fish a fly if I couldn't match that fly to a specific food source. You know, if there's a sulfur hatch, I had to fish a specific sulfur imitation. In the process, I gave up using flies like a Renegade because I couldn't figure out what it represented. Very much match the hatch/ reason from first principles.

I gradually changed to a more empirical approach. Based on my experience, which flies work in which situations? As it turns out, on my home waters, a Renegade often works better during a sulfur hatch anything that actually resembles a sulfur dun. Again, by long experience, that same fly doesn't work at all during a sulfur spinner fall, but a partridge and orange fished dead drift often does. It's not emotion on my part that I made those choices, it's experience of what's worked in the past.

I could argue that matching the hatch is in some ways the more emotional choice, choosing something you think should work based on your pet theory, rather than something that long experience says will work, even if you have no theory why.

Of course, the downside is that it takes years of experimenting to gain that experience.

BTW, if you should come east in June, bring some of those Royal Humpies with you. They can work great when there are iso's on the water.
 

roach45

Well-known member
Messages
47
Reaction score
12
Location
Santa Clarita
Howdy,
It starts out logically. Try and “match the hatch”, but then becomes emotional when I don’t catch anything.
Then I just put on a Woolley Bugger and hope for the best!

This was a good emotional day. We let our guide do all the thinking lol!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

rusty 54

Well-known member
Messages
886
Reaction score
629
Location
Adrian, MI
I usually start out logically, trying what the hatch charts suggest. Then I emotionally tie on a bead head soft hackle, anyway.
 

bumble54

Well-known member
Messages
811
Reaction score
314
Location
Sheffield UK
I think it's too long ingrained for me to comment impartially. I was fascinated by insects (bugs) before I ever discovered trout. I kept all sorts of beasties in sweet and jam jars in the bedroom, outside, in cupboards, terrestrial and aquatic, I must have been the archetypal vile child. 60 years on and I'm still learning and still fascinated. So, yes I suppose I prefer the imitative, logical approach to trout fishing but not exclusively. Emotional?, no, not unless I lose a lunker through my own stupidity.

Given the choice of only one fly?, the fly I would turn to first?, black spider.(I think? :decision:)
 

weiliwen

Well-known member
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
384
Location
Lincolnshire, Illinois
Neither. In fact, I'm not sure I am thinking at all; fly fishing is sort of a meditation for me, and the fly goes where it will.

I am sure that I watch for rises, fishy locations, wind, rain, etc., but if they all get incorporated into my fishing, I'm not sure.

It's not like I don't remember the scenery or the fishes at the end of a day on the river, but I certainly don't approach it with a consciously analytical approach. At this point, my actions are probably hard-wired into habits. I know that after a day on the river, even if I'm exhausted from walking/climbing/wading all day, my brain feels like I had a full-body massage.
 

rodneyshishido

Well-known member
Messages
348
Reaction score
189
Location
Maui, Hawaii
This is a great question. I had to think about it. I am more emotional. I really love being on the rivers and lakes. When I don't catch anything then I start trying to figure why. Never had a bad day fly-fishing even those when I came up empty handed.
 

silver creek

Well-known member
Messages
11,063
Reaction score
8,064
Location
Rothschld, Wisconsin
If you work in a shop, you see "normal" human fishing behaviors......
People fishing out of a warm feeling about the fly that worked last time.
Even if the last time was 10 years ago.
I used to fish early on with a Royal Humpy......I didn't know any better.
But since I learned bugs are always changing, and that fish appreciate the effort you put into choosing your fly, do you even try to match the hatch?
So, are you an emotional or a logical fisher?
From my time on the water, I would say 70% of the fishers never learn the bugs at all........just fish their "lucky" fly.

Jim
You are probably right. I think it is because most fly fishers fish freestone streams and rivers that do not often have a prolific enough hatch for the fish to become selective "most of the time". I bet if they did, then the fishers would become more "logical" meaning they would have a reason to figure out what the fish are taking and use a matching fly.

I understand what you mean by your post, but I need to point out that, even when we might think a fly fisher is not being logical, eg putting on "the fly that worked last time", that in itself is logical; because it is based on experience and not a random choice.

Here's the thing. Norm Albinson, a fly fishing instructor at the University of Utah rightly points out that there are 5 main decisions that we make every time we fly fish. Rarely are these decisions random. In fact they form the basis of a logical systematic method, and we HAVE TO MAKE these choices every time we fish. We can be random, but I don't believe they are. If they were truly random, we would sometimes fish a hopper pattern in the winter. So we subconsciously or consciously must choose what to do.

If we really think about these decisions; they can form the basis for a systematic method. Below is part of a post I have made before.

"According to Norm Albiston of Utah, there are actually 5 major choices you have when fly fishing. They are the (A) location you fish, (B) the time of day you fish, (C) the water column you fish, (D) the fly(ies) you use, (E) the action you impart. Yet we almost always ask only about one of the five - (D) fly choice. Realistically, all 5 choices determine whether you will catch fish.

Realize also that choices (A-C) will determine (D)- the choice of flies, and (D) determines (E). I find that a systematic method helps me to become a better fly fisherman and to analyze what is going on. Always try to understand, what you are doing and why you are doing it, based on the five choices.

Here is the method I have come up when I fish a river for the first time. Break down a large river into small sections. The water type will generally determine the aquatic organisms. You are reading the water, but you should by extension be reading the food. Riffles for example will generally have clinging mayflies and cased caddis, slower sections may have burrowing mayflies and so on. I turn over rocks and pull up some aquatic vegetation to confirm what lives underwater, and I shake a few bushes to see if there has been a hatch recently.

Based on (A) water type and what I have found when I looked at rocks and bushes, and (B) the time of day, I'll choose (C) the water column I'm going to fish. This determines (D) fly choice and that determines (E), how I am going to fish it. If there is a hatch going on, all 5 choices are determined when you decide to fish the hatch with a dry.

During non hatch periods, it is not so simple. During non hatch periods I still may fish the dry especially if the hatch that is occuring has just past. It is not so simple if you decide to fish the nymph. Then you need to decide what fly and where to fish it.

I will almost always put on two flies when fishing with a nymph. The reason is that I can use two entirely different flies, like a mayfly and a caddis pattern, OR I can use two different sizes of the the same pattern, OR I can use the same pattern in different colors (and also vary the size), OR I can use a nymph and an emerger pattern of the same natural.

Fishing two flies also allows me to fish two different water columns, essentially fishing to two different holding areas with the spread of the flies determining the spread of the water columns.

I will generally fish the riffles. Why? Because riffles are a prime lie. They hide sound so that I can get closer to the holding fish. Also the rougher water tosses naturals around and the fish have a harder time detecting unnatural drag.

By fishing two flies in the riffles, I let the fish tell me what flies to use and when to change flies. For example, if I know that a specific mayfly hatch is going to come off like BWO's and I'm fishing well before the hatch I'll put on a PT nymph of the appropriate size and maybe a caddis larva pattern that is also present in the riffles. When the BWO nymphs start to emerge and get tossed around in the riffles, the fish will begin to hit the pt nymph. Then I remove the caddis larva and put on a BWO emerger. As the hatch progresses and they stop hitting the nymph, I'll take off the nymph and rerig to fish a BWO dry with a emerger dropper. When the fish stop hitting the emerger, I'll just fish the dry.

This is a method that I call systematic nymphing or hatch progression fishing. It is a method that allows the fish to tell you when to change flies. But to do that you have to allow the fish to choose between two possibilities.

Realize also that feeding preference is a population based phenomena. That is, not all fish will be feeding on the same food item or change feeding preference at the same time. What we are doing is tracking what the population of fish are doing where you are fishing. Your friend that is 50 ft away could be in another micro environment and experience something different.

One last tip - in my experience, the first question that one should ask a successful fisher is not what fly they are using, but what water layer are they fishing and how they are fishing it. I think this is the one important decision that is most often ignored. In my experience, in non-hatch periods during opportunistic feeding, a fish will take almost any fly that looks like food what is presented at the right level with the right action.

On the San Juan River where almost all the fish are feeding all the time, the best tip I ever received was to change the weight rather than change the fly. Peggy Harrell is a guide on the San Juan and she is the best female fly fisher I have ever met and one of the best fly fishers I have ever fished with. I have seen her purposely put on the "wrong" fly, but take fish with it because she was fishing it at the right level with the right action."
 

corn fed fins

Well-known member
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
1,081
Location
Montrose, CO.
I match the hatch; logic. When I don't see bugs hatching I'll double down on midges. If that doesn't work, the river must have suffered a fish kill that escaped observation.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
 

Unknownflyman

Well-known member
Messages
4,393
Reaction score
3,116
Location
The North
Are trout rising?

Yes— What could they be taking? What is hatching?
No— put on a wet fly or streamer and start swinging.

The other 99% is skill and a gut feeling.
 

Monello

Well-known member
Messages
410
Reaction score
152
Location
Atlantic Beach, FL
I mostly fish still waters. Lakes and ponds. I don't fish moving water often. That said, I usually go with what worked recently or what I feel most confident will give me success.
 

dillon

Well-known member
Messages
2,943
Reaction score
2,244
Location
Portland and Maupin, Oregon
When I am trout fishing my preference is to match the hatch. If fish are rising and there is no discernible hatch I select a fly that represents what I think they might be feeding on. If there are no fish rising a may search with a fly that represents insects that may be present. Or, I'll hunt for a riser while waiting for a hatch.

If steelhead fishing I will select a fly appropriate for the conditions, including, water temperatur, level and clarity, light level, and the season. Many steelheaders have a confidence fly. I have many flies that I have confidence in and try new patterns to gain confidence in them.
 

wthorpe

Well-known member
Messages
834
Reaction score
312
Location
Atlanta/West Yellowstone
On streams, i fish dries for whatever fish are rising to, nymphs / emergers if they are about to hatch. i will also often try a big dry and a dropper especially when fish might take the big dry for a stonefly or hopper. when all else fails: Rubber Legs and zebra midge. If fish wont eat those i go home; how's that for logic.
 

ia_trouter

Senior Member
Messages
8,453
Reaction score
97
Location
Eastern Iowa, Southern Driftless
By your definition I am probably a emotionalogical fisherman. When I arrive the water gets a quick glance. "Yup, looks like dark streamer water, or one o my other lucky flies". If that isn't impressing them in 30 minutes it's time for a cup of coffee and a more analytical approach. I'm flexible as Gumby when I need to be.
 

flav

Well-known member
Messages
2,110
Reaction score
1,889
Location
oregon
I have a very logical approach to what flies I am going to use, trying to match the hatch or at least match what the fish are most likely seeing. I also have a very emotional approach to what methods I use, preferring dry flies even when they have a very limited chance of success.
 

goshawk87

Well-known member
Messages
266
Reaction score
8
Location
Roy, Utah
I am a combination of both. I have a set of confidence flies that work in a broad range of situations, but which of them I pick is based on the commonly available food in the river. That said, some of them don’t look like anything, but work amazingly well.

Presentation > fly choice
 
Top