mcnerney
Administrator
Here is an excellent article in the Denver Post:
National parks face crisis from crowds that visit each year
National parks face crisis from crowds that visit each year
Crisis in the National Parks
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rfb700
Well-known member
People suck. We need a good plague to take out a billion or two.
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Meadowlark
Well-known member
I don't have the answers...but that article hits the nail on the head:
“Social media is the number one driver,” said Maschelle Zia, who manages Horseshoe Bend for the Glen Canyon national recreation area. “People don’t come here for solitude. They are looking for the iconic photo.”
It isn't often that I'm thankful for being old...so much more fishing I want to do, so many places to try...but I'm glad I won't see what our Natural wonders are headed for. On this Thanksgiving, I'm thankful I appreciate solitude but worried where we are headed.
“Social media is the number one driver,” said Maschelle Zia, who manages Horseshoe Bend for the Glen Canyon national recreation area. “People don’t come here for solitude. They are looking for the iconic photo.”
It isn't often that I'm thankful for being old...so much more fishing I want to do, so many places to try...but I'm glad I won't see what our Natural wonders are headed for. On this Thanksgiving, I'm thankful I appreciate solitude but worried where we are headed.
Living half the year close to Yellowstone, we've seen the crowds increase seemingly exponentially. There was once a time, not too long ago, that you could go there about anytime other than June through August and not see many people at all, but now it stays crowded through October. And an amazing number of the visitors are Chinese and Japanese tourists. None of them fish, very few hike away from the roads, but they sure clog up the roads. Personally, I'd like to see the entry fees raised for non-U.S. citizens who don't support the parks through their tax money.
Monello
Well-known member
The US population in 1960 was 180,700,000, give or take. In my lifetime the population has increased by 128,000,000 according to the 2010 census. The next census will find us with around 330 million people.
When is it enough?
When is it enough?
westcoast
Well-known member
Don't panic, you are all welcome to come up to Canada and enjoy our Parks. Much larger land area with 1/10 the population. You also get 30% more on your dollar exchange.
* no littering please
* no littering please
bumble54
Well-known member
Solyent Green. :hungry::madgrin:
denver1911
Well-known member
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If you place your measure of value on human life, this is not a problem. If you place your measure of value on the experience you as an individual have, it is.
rfb700
Well-known member
My dear American friends. Canada is a vast wasteland with no fish or game left and all our parks are filled to overflowing. Don't come here. It is not worth your time.
Seriously though, maybe it's better out west but in the east anything accessible is packed. Too many people. The portages in Ontario's great wilderness park, Algonquin, resemble rush hour in Los Angeles during the summer. And don't even think about getting a camping space in the more popular provincial parks during summer high season.
Even what was relatively remote places like Iceland are feeling the heat from tourist over crowding. Not too much remote and uncrowded left anymore on our dear old planet.
We really need that plague. Or maybe institute the death penalty for parking tickets.
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Seriously though, maybe it's better out west but in the east anything accessible is packed. Too many people. The portages in Ontario's great wilderness park, Algonquin, resemble rush hour in Los Angeles during the summer. And don't even think about getting a camping space in the more popular provincial parks during summer high season.
Even what was relatively remote places like Iceland are feeling the heat from tourist over crowding. Not too much remote and uncrowded left anymore on our dear old planet.
We really need that plague. Or maybe institute the death penalty for parking tickets.
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rsagebrush
Well-known member
I live in the 'overcrowded' Mid Atlantic area, I rarely see anyone when fishing about 80 percent of the time. The National Parks for for everyone, not a private reserve you may have been used to. The last time I was in Yellowstone there were plenty of people in the park but I rarely encountered anyone while fishing, I did see many people driving by when I was in sight of a road. Outside the park, it was pretty much empty.
I think foreigners should pay 2x the price for entrance into our parks.
I think foreigners should pay 2x the price for entrance into our parks.
I saw that article a couple days go.
At the same time I was looking at some old 35mm slides I had digitized.
These are from Yellowstone in August 1973.
Not many people around.
I'm sure the simple boardwalks that were in place then have been replaced with something much more grand.
At the same time I was looking at some old 35mm slides I had digitized.
These are from Yellowstone in August 1973.
Not many people around.
I'm sure the simple boardwalks that were in place then have been replaced with something much more grand.
I’d no idea how much the entrance fee was for Yellowstone... 35$ for 7 day pass, per vehicle...
Absolute bargain... as a foreign tourist I’d happily pay double.
Perhaps they should do it on a chip and charge you per mile driven once in the park.... It would perhaps encourage people to park up, get off the arses and walk a bit
... the one thing you can guarantee is the vast majority of people will drive too much and walk little... so if you like a bit of exercise you can soon leave the crowds behind... same the world over.
I have a friend who has fished in US a number of times, I was discussing what’s it like as a visitor and crowded waters... Obviously being a foreigner you haven’t got a drift boat with you, so same as at home you are walk and wade for most of the trip... his response I found very reassuring... park up walk a mile or so and you’ll have left everyone behind.
Absolute bargain... as a foreign tourist I’d happily pay double.
Perhaps they should do it on a chip and charge you per mile driven once in the park.... It would perhaps encourage people to park up, get off the arses and walk a bit
... the one thing you can guarantee is the vast majority of people will drive too much and walk little... so if you like a bit of exercise you can soon leave the crowds behind... same the world over.
I have a friend who has fished in US a number of times, I was discussing what’s it like as a visitor and crowded waters... Obviously being a foreigner you haven’t got a drift boat with you, so same as at home you are walk and wade for most of the trip... his response I found very reassuring... park up walk a mile or so and you’ll have left everyone behind.
jayr
Well-known member
I primarily fish the GSMNP as it is about 30 minutes from my home.
We have in excess of 11 million visitors a year. Supposedly it is the most visited NP in the country and I don’t doubt that. This is due to close access to some major interstates, population and the fact that no admission is charged.
The GSMNP is right at 500,000 acres however the vast majority of the visitors access the park via the main entrance at Gatlinburg. There are however parts of the park that receive far fewer visitors due to access via the road system outside of the park. As a fisherman, I take this into account when fishing the park, that and the season.
In my opinion one thing that has also driven up the visitation rate are areas such as Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg and somewhat to a lesser extent Cherokee, NC. I can’t help that think, and I have witnessed, quite a few that drive into the park snap a few pics and then leave. It still does add to the traffic and wear and tear on the park.
There has been mentioned adding an entry fee into the park like a lot of other parks, but this has not happened. One thing I have heard on this is that the way the park was formed and “gifted” to the US via TN and NC is that no entrance fees could be charged, ever. Don’t know if this is true or just popular myth.
We have in excess of 11 million visitors a year. Supposedly it is the most visited NP in the country and I don’t doubt that. This is due to close access to some major interstates, population and the fact that no admission is charged.
The GSMNP is right at 500,000 acres however the vast majority of the visitors access the park via the main entrance at Gatlinburg. There are however parts of the park that receive far fewer visitors due to access via the road system outside of the park. As a fisherman, I take this into account when fishing the park, that and the season.
In my opinion one thing that has also driven up the visitation rate are areas such as Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg and somewhat to a lesser extent Cherokee, NC. I can’t help that think, and I have witnessed, quite a few that drive into the park snap a few pics and then leave. It still does add to the traffic and wear and tear on the park.
There has been mentioned adding an entry fee into the park like a lot of other parks, but this has not happened. One thing I have heard on this is that the way the park was formed and “gifted” to the US via TN and NC is that no entrance fees could be charged, ever. Don’t know if this is true or just popular myth.
kentuckysteve
Well-known member
This is true but it's not so much the entrance fee but the road thru the park that has the stipulation placed on it.The 2 states (Tenn,NC) paid for the road (US441) and at the time this was the only road across the mountain into tennessee so when they transfered the road to the US Govt they made sure no toll or fee would ever be charged to travel that road.However tennessee could pass legislature to change this if they ever want to.
el jefe
Well-known member
A few of thoughts occur. First, more people experiencing our national parks being thought a crisis might just be the best example of first world problems I've ever read. It's not a crisis. Somebody here wants to solve a problem with a crisis (plague); seems like overkill, but whatever.
Second, many of the statistics cited in that article talk about the crowding happening in the last couple of years. Guess what we've had the last couple of years? An economic boom, leaving people with a lot more leisure time and disposable dollars. I really don't think social media is the cause of this overcrowding, I just think we're seeing it as a symptom. The additional time and money are the cause, but it's enhanced with social media. Social media as a cause is quite a stretch.
Third, these things tend to ebb and flow, to a point. Unquestionably, population growth leads to higher visitation numbers because demand grows with population, but I think we might be looking at recent numbers and seeing some folks who finally have gotten the chance to go, and my guess is that this tapers off as a percentage of the population in the next couple of years. Actually, some small movement in economic indices might have a pretty direct effect on national park usage.
The article was an advocacy piece, limiting itself to only one or two perspectives, and ignored a lot of more obvious potential factors. It's a human interest piece fraught with anecdote, but does not qualify as analysis.
Finally, why is Canada's population still so small, considering they spend a lot more time indoors?
Second, many of the statistics cited in that article talk about the crowding happening in the last couple of years. Guess what we've had the last couple of years? An economic boom, leaving people with a lot more leisure time and disposable dollars. I really don't think social media is the cause of this overcrowding, I just think we're seeing it as a symptom. The additional time and money are the cause, but it's enhanced with social media. Social media as a cause is quite a stretch.
Third, these things tend to ebb and flow, to a point. Unquestionably, population growth leads to higher visitation numbers because demand grows with population, but I think we might be looking at recent numbers and seeing some folks who finally have gotten the chance to go, and my guess is that this tapers off as a percentage of the population in the next couple of years. Actually, some small movement in economic indices might have a pretty direct effect on national park usage.
The article was an advocacy piece, limiting itself to only one or two perspectives, and ignored a lot of more obvious potential factors. It's a human interest piece fraught with anecdote, but does not qualify as analysis.
Finally, why is Canada's population still so small, considering they spend a lot more time indoors?
rfb700
Well-known member
We all use The Newfoundland lobster trap or the full mountie. Great for preventing pregnancy
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westcoast
Well-known member
rfb700
Well-known member
Someone has to support the Florida hockey teamsFreedom 55.
Once you hit a certain age in Canada, you are sent down to Florida
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zjory
Well-known member
I live near RMNP and don’t go up there much anymore in summer due to the crowds. I love it up there in October when the crowds thin out and the cutts start feasting to fatten up for winter. But there is so much uncrowded water in the front range that I choose to fish outside the park during the busy season. IPWA is RMNP without the roads and parking lots. Amazing how little you have to limit access to do away with 90% of the crowds. Contrary to popular belief, solitude and a long blue line to yourself is still easy to find in Colorado if you’re willing to put in a bit more work than 99% of the population. I for one, am glad the parks exist and are so easily accessible so people can see such beauty that otherwise wouldn’t.
jayr
Well-known member
Toll roads in TN are illegal by statute. It would take a big change in state law to make it a toll.
The other thing I remember from years ago was when TN and NC helped “found” the park, both states wanted it so that at the very least residents of both states were never to have to pay to enter the park. Don’t know necessarily if that’s true or not.
As former cabin owners inside the GSMNP, our family and many others, were privy to a lot of the unwritten history of the founding of the GSMNP as several of the families were descendants of the Chapmans, Townsends, etc.