Czech Nymphing - Flyfishing?

[Whizzer]

Well, I gave czech nymphing a good workout Dec 24th at a local tail water fishery. I have used the technique(sort of!) several times in the past at my favorite local hot spots and have always done well with it. Lately, I have been researching the technique extensively ( I really need to get a life!). A local fly shop had a tier in who put on a great presentation on the technique and the flies he uses in our area. Armed with the info gleaned from various sources, and a whole bunch of leaders and flies i tied and built (no small task for a noob tier!!) i headed to the local tail water area. No one there! Woo-Hoo!! i won't completely embarrass myself! The fishing was awesome! Nothing huge, but lots of real nice browns. Fished for about 5 hours and landed over 30 fish. That’s a great day for me. The czech technique worked great. I was really gettin’ into it.

Not too long after I started fishing other fisherman showed up and after a while it was getting a bit crowded. That’s to be expected in this area as there is not a bunch of open water. Most of the other folks were not doing well at all and I was doing great. Soon one of the other fisherman came over to czech out what the hell I was doing. I showed him and offered him the rig. He took it, got the hang of it quickly and soon had landed a couple of fish. I gave him a leader and a few nymphs and he gave me a bunch of midges and off he went. With in 10 minutes a couple of other fisherman showed up and began chewing my butt!

The area is a quality water, Fly and lure, catch and release fishing only. They told me that what I was doing was not legal in this area. I politely argued the point, but they were persistant, and loud!! I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle and moved well downstream. Still caught a bunch of fish though! Before entering the new water I talked to three of the folks that were closest to my new spot and explained what I was going to do. They thought it was definitely legal, but they really didn’t think it was kosher. Not really fly fishing was the main complaint. I fished a while longer, but my heart was no longer in it. So I hit the bricks.

The 50 minute ride home gave me time to reflect. Know what, I found myself agreeing with those folks. I know it is legal. I know that is a great way to catch a bunch of fish quickly. I just don’t think it can be categorized as fly fishing in the true sense of the word.

I’ve been beating myself up over it for the past few days. I somehow feel like I cheated. I will place the technique in my memory bank, but don’t know if I will mess with it again til I can get my head around the issues involved.

I’m new here, but I think this is a perfect place for a discussion of Czech nymphing and it’s place in flyfishing in general. What do you folks think? Is it fly fishing. Is it for tournaments only? Are those who use it no better than dredgers(a term I got from some green river guides) ?

Any input appreciated
Happy New Yera to everyone

Steve

 

[Joni]

What? Let me get this straight. You put on a longer than normal leader, a few very heavy flies (two is the limit here) drop them in a deep current and lead them down the river.
But you make the flies out of synthetics, or fur, you are using a leader, fly line and a rod and reel, and fishing a style that has been around for years although new to the US.
To me, to think this is not fly fishing you would have to include streamers, San Juan Worm, eggs (bead or Glowbug) and specially deep nymphing with a floating line and an indicator.

Must be just me, but I think it is all fly fishing. Maybe not Traditional, but I guess I am not a traditionalist.

I say RIGHT ON and good job.

 

[Fly2Fish]

What you're doing is the standard for fly-fishing on the San Juan in the "quality" C & R zone, i.e., an attractor fly and a dropper fly following - usually a wet/nymph. Sometimes the attractor fly is a dry and used as an indicator; other times a separate indicator is used, especially if the attractor fly is also a wet fly/nymph.

 

[arfishinbear]

To many folks worry TO damn much what other folks are doing. If you were useing two small trebles on your fly rod and snagging fish then yeah I can see them hollering, most just figure its easy to holler and bitch about what they dont know then to take the time to learn about it.
People really piss me off. If Unless you were floating a worm in a fly only aera thye should just mind their own. Dont back down if you know your in the right from now on man, stand your ground. The only time a two fly rig is bad is when the fish are stacked in water and you fowl hook alot, other then that, fish on.
Keep at 'em
Bear

 

[devon flyfisher]

Those 2 guys should be ignored, it came down to jealousy and snobbery and that is why they said what they said.
I fish all fly fishing methods and although i rarely fish the czech nymph i do on occasion.
My friend is an international fly fisherman and fishes for England on occasion, i watch him and when nothing is rising he uses the nymph to great effect, but switches to the dry in an instant, also to great effect, both methods are legal and involve fly casting, so as i said before, they were snobs who haven't moved with the times.
Happy new year.
Richard

 

[arfishinbear]

P.S.
Next time they say your doing something wrong and you know your in the right tell them to call the conservation officer for the area and shut the hell up in the mean time.
Bear

 

[pdq 5oh]

As I see it fly fishing, and fishing in general, is about figuring out what's going to work on any given day to catch fish. If drifting drys, or swinging streamers doesn't work, why not do what does? Why do we carry different flies, leaders, tippet, etc? Because the same method or fly isn't going to work every day. Conditions change, and fly fishers need to change to..........accommodate change. You helped one guy out who was willing to allow you to. He had fun as a result. That should make you feel some satisfaction. I'm also sure that guy is thanking you every time he uses what you showed him. Two guys were not willing to accept your help and have rained on your fun and success. Let them wallow in their lack of success. Bottom line, you went to catch fish and have fun. You did. Good for you.

 

[OldMan]

Czech nymping uses three heavily weighted flies. What was their argument with you? Heavy flies, or three flies? Using three flies in some areas might have some merit, but i'm not sure of that.

Other than that, you're basically high sticking with weighted nymphs. You use the weight in the flies instead of lead weight, and you keep a tight line instead of a bobber. That's hardly a reason to call it cheating. If high sticking is legal. Czech nymphing should be too.

On a personal note. I hate that type of fishing. It works, but there's no casting skills needed, and that's half the fun of fly fishing for me.

 

[FISHN50]

Hi Whizzer
I agree with everyone else who posted. It sounds like those guys were just sour grapes. You caught fish & they didn't so you were cheating. If you weren't using more than the total allowed number of flies you were just close nymphing. Didn't Swiebert describe Czech Nymping in one of his books 30 yrs. ago. I think he called it Close Nymphing & used the Liesinsing ( or something like that ) lift...He just used different fly styles but the fishing style was the same as I remember.

 

[mojo]

Czech nymping uses three heavily weighted flies. What was their argument with you? Heavy flies, or three flies? Using three flies in some areas might have some merit, but i'm not sure of that.

Other than that, you're basically high sticking with weighted nymphs. You use the weight in the flies instead of lead weight, and you keep a tight line instead of a bobber. That's hardly a reason to call it cheating. If high sticking is legal. Czech nymphing should be too.

On a personal note. I hate that type of fishing. It works, but there's no casting skills needed, and that's half the fun of fly fishing for me.

Czech/Polish nymphing is nymphing, highsticking is nymphing of a different sort. Nymphing with an indicator(and to you smart asses "bobber") is nymphing. Still the same-it's all flyfishing. Look it up in your state proclamation.
Yes, maybe no "casting" skills in that type of fishing, but you do have to know what you're doing to Czech or Polish nymph. So I would say you have to have some type of skill to catch fish.

 

[jclampwork88]

Czech/Polish nymphing is nymphing, highsticking is nymphing of a different sort. Nymphing with an indicator(and to you smart asses "bobber") is nymphing. Still the same-it's all flyfishing. Look it up in your state proclamation.
Yes, maybe no "casting" skills in that type of fishing, but you do have to know what you're doing to Czech or Polish nymph. So I would say you have to have some type of skill to catch fish.

Agreed

 

[Joni]

Neither require a BOBBER/INDICATOR...that is the beauty.

 

[OldMan]

Czech/Polish nymphing is nymphing, highsticking is nymphing of a different sort. Nymphing with an indicator(and to you smart asses "bobber") is nymphing. Still the same-it's all flyfishing. Look it up in your state proclamation.
Yes, maybe no "casting" skills in that type of fishing, but you do have to know what you're doing to Czech or Polish nymph. So I would say you have to have some type of skill to catch fish.

I think you and Joni in PM's have missed my point completely. The topic of the thread is Czech nymphing, legal or not? I pointed out that Czech nymphing and high stick nymphing are similar enough that if one was illegal, then the other one would be too. With the exception of the number of flies used.

I said nothing about whether you needed skills, or what skills it took. I said it didn't need any casting skills, and it doesn't because..well.. you don't cast. I think casting a fly rod is the most fun in fly fishing. So, for me, that type of nymphing may produce lots of fish, but I don't find it that much fun.

 

[mojo]

I think you and Joni in PM's have missed my point completely. The topic of the thread is Czech nymphing, legal or not? I pointed out that Czech nymphing and high stick nymphing are similar enough that if one was illegal, then the other one would be too. With the exception of the number of flies used.

I said nothing about whether you needed skills, or what skills it took. I said it didn't need any casting skills, and it doesn't because..well.. you don't cast. I think casting a fly rod is the most fun in fly fishing. So, for me, that type of nymphing may produce lots of fish, but I don't find it that much fun.

Pete, for the first time I agreed with you. I know it doesn't take any "casting skills" and that's what I said. Please re-read it. I said it takes skills to C/P nymph. It's not that easy. I just re-interated, that- high sticking, nymphing with an indicator/bobber, and C/P nymphing is-NYMPHING. "Still the same-it's all flyfishing. Look it up in your state proclamation"
Nymphing is not one of my favorite ways to fish. I prefer dry fly's 100:1 but, when there's no takers on the surface, I go sub surface, WD's, wets,
and finally, nymphs.

 

[OldMan]

Let's mark this moment in history.

We agree. :frogdance

 

[Whizzer]

A quick thank you for the responses. I feel better already!

Fly2Fish - I only get down to the San Juan a couple of times a year, and I have never CN’ed there at all. I will make a note to try it this year. If I get in trouble I’ll tell them you said it was OK!! :icon_lol:

Old Man - you are right, they had a problem with the 3 fly set up. I checked with F&G about that some time ago and it is legal in our state and is in fact considered FF. The no casting thing was a problem too. I believe broomstick and string were mentioned a few times! Actually, I did cast a few times. 6 - 8ft of fly line. It’s a bit scary with all that “stuff” hangin’ out there. I agree with you about the casting. It does make FF more fun. I enjoy the challenge of getting a bug in the right place via the cast. CNing isn’t something I want to use a whole lot. It is a nice tool to have at hand though.

Joni - you were correct about using bigger nymphs. Gonna tie me up some of those #4, and # 3 bad boys before I try it again. Got my old gram scale out and ready to go. Don’t know what that residue is!!

A few notes on what I discovered about CNing in the cold. Freezing line guides is not much of a problem. Mending is eliminated and that makes nymphing a lot easier(for me). With the line relatively taught all the time, detecting the take is easier and the hook set is almost automatic. Almost!! Changing patterns is a pain in the butt! I tied up several rigs before I left home and had a large enough loop to loop braided indicator that I could change rigs pretty quickly on the river. The time from hook up to landing is short. Good for the fish and good for the fisherman. Fighting the fish is really different when you don’t have much line out, but since you can use heavier tippet 3 or 4X and a braided leader you can turn a fish more easily without fear of breaking the fish off. Of course I had a lot more “early” releases than normal. Gotta work on that a bit!! All things considered I had a good day fishing, and now that my head is a bit more together I’ll probably give it another shot this winter.

Again, thank you all!

Steve

 

[Greenwood]

I agree......and I learned a lot from this thread.......perception; attitude and where people draw the line. And, kudos to Whizzer.....nice way to end the thread!

 

[Joni]

I am just curious.....are you using a LONG STICK for this? I bought a 10' five weight for this purpose.

 

[BigCliff]

You're always gonna have folks who want to enforce their personal definition of what exactly is fly fishing. For some its only a dry fly and floating line cast directly upstream on a bamboo rod, for others its not quite so rigid/orthodox.

The folks that couldn't see exactly how you were fishing might have thought you were a pinner fishing with spawn sacs and thats why you were whoopin them on the catch numbers. The motions look somewhat similar to Czech Nymphing from a ways off.

The rules in most areas put fly and lure fishing in the same category because there are situations where the lines get blurred. The line that is not blurred is that neither involve bait. Here's what can get blurry: I think if the weight of your flies or shot on the leader is what is propelling the hook(s) to the lie rather than the weight of the fly line combined with a casting stroke, you are no longer technically fly fishing. (that said, on my last outing, i might have only been "fly-fishing" 2/3s of the time)

I don't abstain from any techniques because they don't seem like pure fly-fishing. I actually greatly enjoy high stick nymphing with a "bobber". Its faster action than most, you don't have to keep flies dry, fish 7x on 24s, etc. However, even on a single day on the river, its not all I want to do. I like to fish dries, emergers, and wets all in the same day. The high sticking just adds in a little overdriven guitar to a mostly easy-listening day in the woods.

 

[Joni]

Does it seem that the US puts all these rules to FF? I mean Polish/Czech Nymphing has been going on for year. And the English were fishing NYMPHS ONLY for years.
Were we the first to come up with BAIT FISH imitations, or San Juan Worm, or Eggs?
Flies that were used for salt water fish, now working their way inland and doing quite well.