Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  41
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34
  1. #11

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Quote Originally Posted by hollisd View Post
    Imagine the travel possibilities if we were to breed a brilliant strain of TSA agents and then compost them!

    Hehe I'm not going to think too deeply about this or I may never fly fish again

    It's funny though we walk the river conservation walk to preserve healthy natural resources but the backbone of the industry is a chicken mill

    I wonder where TU stands on this; how do others feel?

    I read the article and found it interesting but I've never thought about this subject before

    To me if you can have lesser feathers and not have to sacrifice birds then I'm all for it

    Genetic manipulation in a controlled environment like this is kind of crazy

    I assumed fly tying feathers were natural apart from dying (coloring) but definitely no harm no fowl
    Let me guess. You think hunting should be banned?

  2. #12

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Quote Originally Posted by hollisd View Post
    ...

    I assumed fly tying feathers were natural apart from dying (coloring) but definitely no harm no fowl
    Seriously? Where do you think squirrel tail nymphs come from? How about Elk hair caddis? Pheasants willingly donate tails to the cause?

    LOL.

    I raised chickens and guineas for awhile but the coyotes kept picking them off. They forgot to read the memo.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    I'm not going to venture far down this road as we've covered it before. I realize it is a sensitive subject.....but I will say this.

    If you fly fish, you have to accept it as a blood sport. The usage of furs and feathers is part of it. Farming and genetic breeding of animals for our use is part of it. A 3-5% mortality with C&R fishing is a proven fact. Animals must die to be tied to your hook. Whether you killed them, you bought them packaged in a store or someone in Kenya/Indonesia does it for you....it is a reality you must come to grips with.

    It's good that people educate themselves on how the materials used in their flies come to be. But, achieving the best hackle possible through selective breeding of chickens isn't on my top 1,000 things to worry about.


    “If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago.”
    ~Zane Grey

    " . . . shouldn't a man stand on his own two feet and catch his own steelhead? Maybe put out some effort and find his own fish just for the fun of it?"
    ~Syd Glasso

  4. Likes Redrock liked this post
  5. #14

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    As an elk hunter. I've never had to buy elk hair. The elk have fed my family (me and my dog) and helped me catch fish.

    Feels natural to me. Man has always hunted for meat for his family. I find it strange when a man doesn't have that urge.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownbass View Post
    Sorry' the chickens have to die in the process. I recently asked the question, " What happens to the carcass? " thinking that they may be able to donate them to a food bank but the answer is it is turned into compost.
    I'm unclear but I've read the chickens don't have to die. Why can't the feathers be harvested without killing the birds?

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    I hope you are not serious.

    If you are, where do you stand on eating chicken? If you do, they were raised for food instead of hackle and they died.

    Does it matter to me that the birds were raised for hackle instead of food. Not a bit. 9 billion chickens are eaten each year in the USA. So what if several thousand are used for hackle? if 3 thousand chickens are used for hackle each year, that is ratio of 3 million chickens killed for food for everyone used for hackle.

    Give me the best hackle possible. Regardless of whether a the hackle is bad, good, better, or best; a chicken has to die! Even if you are tieing with strung marabou, a turkey or several turkeys died. Deer or elk hair? - yep, they died, too. Pheasants tails for PTs, yep they died as well.

    We also catch and release trout - yep, 3 - 5% die.

    Where am I going with this?

    I don't care if a chicken has to to be raised for food or for hackle. I'm going to eat protein, tie flies and continue to fish; and some animals are going to die!

    But that is just me. :^)

    This are some critical questions. Do you care enough about an animal dying to not use any flies with any animal parts like fur and feathers? If you buy the flies instead of buying the materials and tying the flies are you more "innocent"?

    Not in my mind. The end user carries the responsibility. The analogy is that the person that eats the hamburger is responsible and not the person that cooks the hamburger.
    This won't be a popular reply but the price of a parachute Adams is a poultry holocaust apparently.

    I eat chicken and get that those chickens live a short miserable life compared to Whiting's cocks but at least the former birds provide food.

    What I'm struggling with is that Whiting's Farms kills these animals for ornament.

    I think they should find a way to harvest hackle without killing the birds.


    Quote Originally Posted by old timer View Post
    Let me guess. You think hunting should be banned?
    Not if it's within regulations and for food. OT but I do think automatic weapons should be illegal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Meadowlark View Post
    Seriously? Where do you think squirrel tail nymphs come from? How about Elk hair caddis? Pheasants willingly donate tails to the cause?

    LOL.

    I raised chickens and guineas for awhile but the coyotes kept picking them off. They forgot to read the memo.
    Naively, I thought all fly hackle was plucked from birds and the only thing unnatural was the odd dyed feather.

    I'm sure this will get the Texans fuming at the bit but how is this much different from Hitler. He would applaud this which amounts to holocaust.

    It seems hypocritical for a catch & release sport which practices conservation and protection of our natural resources to have a chicken mill for a backbone.


    Quote Originally Posted by flytie09 View Post
    I'm not going to venture far down this road as we've covered it before. I realize it is a sensitive subject.....but I will say this.

    If you fly fish, you have to accept it as a blood sport. The usage of furs and feathers is part of it. Farming and genetic breeding of animals for our use is part of it. A 3-5% mortality with C&R fishing is a proven fact. Animals must die to be tied to your hook. Whether you killed them, you bought them packaged in a store or someone in Kenya/Indonesia does it for you....it is a reality you must come to grips with.

    It's good that people educate themselves on how the materials used in their flies come to be. But, achieving the best hackle possible through selective breeding of chickens isn't on my top 1,000 things to worry about.
    I found this a nice summary:

    There’s no doubt that one could raise philosophical objections to breeding an animal solely for its plumage. While the underlying concern is more than legitimate, at least hackle chickens are a tiny minority of the total chickens raised in America each year. And their lives are about six times longer and a myriad degrees less stultifying than the standard pullet destined for the fryer.

    It’s been about nine months since Wigg hatched his first generation. The birds are a little fatter than they were in Canada—owing to the corn in their diet as opposed to the canola-heavy feed they’d get in Alberta. But the hackles are filling in nicely. Soon enough, they’ll be wound into an Adams, Royal Coachman, or Parachute pattern, gliding down a stream somewhere, waiting for an unsuspecting fish to take notice.



    Quote Originally Posted by old timer View Post
    As an elk hunter. I've never had to buy elk hair. The elk have fed my family (me and my dog) and helped me catch fish.

    Feels natural to me. Man has always hunted for meat for his family. I find it strange when a man doesn't have that urge.
    I agree, but gene manipulation and slaughtering of chickens on a mass scale for feathers isn't a basic necessity of life.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    I think this is one of those time we will have to agree to disagree.

    My opinion, and I want to be clear that this is only my opinion, is that the fact that you can eat chicken without any reservation but think that raising chickens for hackle is "chicken holocaust" must be resolved in your mind. If you really believe that, AND you are consistent in modeling your behavior to match your beliefs, you will stop using flies with natural materials. After all, animals died so we can have flies.

    I don't care. You apparently do. What are you going to do about it?

    If you continue to use animal derived flies, you will need to bring these two opposing beliefs into agreement which is not possible. The result will be cognitive dissonance, which is what we humans do when we must live with two conflicts belief structures in one mind. My opinion is that if you continue to use these flies, you will minimize in your mind that you are actually contributing to "chicken holocaust." The truth is that if you believe in "chicken holocaust" you cannot escape your part in it when you buy and use these flies.

    Quote Originally Posted by hollisd View Post
    I agree, but gene manipulation and slaughtering of chickens on a mass scale for feathers isn't a basic necessity of life.
    Here you are actually applying cognitive dissonance to the fact that you eat chicken and beef and pork or any animal derived food. The truth is that is that raising and butchering animals "isn't a basic necessity of life" either. You could be a vegetarian if you wanted to be really consistent.

    I don't care if animals are raised for food. I buy meat and that supports the farmers who raise it, the workers who butcher it, wrap it and sell it to me. I feel no guilt when eating meat or when I tied flies with hackle plucked from a neck or saddle.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  8. Likes flytie09, hairwing530 liked this post
  9. #17

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    I think this is one of those time we will have to agree to disagree.

    My opinion, and I want to be clear that this is only my opinion, is that the fact that you can eat chicken without any reservation but think that raising chickens for hackle is "chicken holocaust" must be resolved in your mind. If you really believe that, AND you are consistent in modeling your behavior to match your beliefs, you will stop using flies with natural materials. After all, animals died so we can have flies.

    I don't care. You apparently do. What are you going to do about it?

    If you continue to use animal derived flies, you will need to bring these two opposing beliefs into agreement which is not possible. The result will be cognitive dissonance, which is what we humans do when we must live with two conflicts belief structures in one mind. My opinion is that if you continue to use these flies, you will minimize in your mind that you are actually contributing to "chicken holocaust." The truth is that if you believe in "chicken holocaust" you cannot escape your part in it when you buy and use these flies.
    I know holocaust is a strong word but I simply think hackle should be achieved without killing the birds because premium hackle isn't a necessity.

    I've written Whiting to share my feelings and learn more. I don't have any intention to stop fly fishing nor not use these flies but I will educate myself.

    I shared this with my wife and 8 year-old son last night and both agree with me so I'm not alone.

    I'm not looking to ruffle feathers with this thread. I'm simply sharing my own opinion as well and it will develop for I've never thought of this and I've fly fished since I was a kid.

  10. #18

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    hollisd................ Just so you know. Automatic guns are illegal. You're probably thinking of the military guns a lot of guys use. Those are semi-auto just like a lot of hunting guns. Personally, they do nothing for me. I'm a traditionalist and love the old Hawken muzzleloaders. That's what I use to hunt with. Real black powder and a round ball. I hunt just like the old mountain men from the early 1800's.

    I fish the same way. Old bamboo rods, silk lines, and old classic dry flies tied with only natural materials.

    I was born 150 years too late.

  11. Likes hollisd liked this post
  12. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Maryland - Gunpowder River
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Fascinating article.

    Admittedly I was a little surprised that the feather donating chicken winds up in a compost pile. That fact won't keep me up at night nor change my behavior, but hard to believed there isn't a better use for the meat.

  13. Likes hollisd liked this post
  14. #20

    Default Re: Great Article even for non Flytiers

    Don't think of what happens to your dog if you bring it to a vet to be put down.

  15. Likes hollisd liked this post
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-12-2017, 12:00 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-05-2017, 04:20 PM
  3. A great newspaper article about Spey
    By skinnytrucker in forum How to Spey Cast - Technique and Advice
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-06-2013, 09:33 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-19-2012, 11:20 PM
  5. A great article on going for distance
    By wjc in forum The Fly Cast
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-2009, 09:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •