Building Trout Leaders

brokeoff

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I looked up some trout leaders for a few upcoming trips this summer. This guide I will go with uses a 16' leader. In preparation for the trip I'd like to practice with some long leaders. The recipes I'm finding call for 10 sections!

I'm not sure if I want to buy 10 spools of tippet.

Can someone narrow down a few tried and true leader formulas to check out. Looking for between 14 and 16ft. 5 wt line throwing size 14-16 caddis.
 

rodneyshishido

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The last time I used a 16' leader was on Silver Creek. Technically it wasn't a 16' leader, it was a 12' leader with 4' of tippet. I used to tie my leaders with Maxima Chameleon as it is a pretty stiff line. I would not tie the entire leader with tippet material. Just my 2 cents.
 

osseous

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Having just returned from New Zealand, where I was using leaders to 19', I can tell you that practicing is a VERY good idea. My practice helped immeasurably.

Trout Hunter makes 14' leaders- you can add onto either end. They have long tippet sections- so adding to the butt with some Maxima would seem to be the easier path.

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sweetandsalt

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brokeoff, Where are you fishing with this guide? My dry fly leaders for the Delaware, Missouri, Henry's Fork and Silver Creek are all 15 - 17' with 5' of tippet. I've written about what I do down under Lines if you wish to search some. My personal technique involves starting with an Orvis Braided Butt then building down from 0X to 5X. Hand knotted works too but not knotless extruded products.
 

ottosmagic13

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14' leaders, yikes!

I'd be casting nothing but leader and maybe 6' of line on my home creek, or tight lining with 3 feet of leader inside the rod tip.

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Rip Tide

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For extra long leaders, I use the formula for a 12', 5x (9 sections) but extend the butt a bit for better turn-over, along with extra tippet length.
Just buy the leader tie kit.
I've hand tied all my own for 30 years and I would never go back
 

dennyk

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I build my own leaders mostly for warm water applications. But when I need a long trout leader I'll start with my choice of 9' tapered leaders usually 3x or 4x and add to them from there. I add taper
to the existing tapered leader down to 6x, normally just 2 sections, 5x and then 6x.

Denny
 

silver creek

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I looked up some trout leaders for a few upcoming trips this summer. This guide I will go with uses a 16' leader. In preparation for the trip I'd like to practice with some long leaders. The recipes I'm finding call for 10 sections!

Can someone narrow down a few tried and true leader formulas to check out. Looking for between 14 and 16ft. 5 wt line throwing size 14-16 caddis.
Having just returned from New Zealand, where I was using leaders to 19', I can tell you that practicing is a VERY good idea. My practice helped immeasurably.

Trout Hunter makes 14' leaders- you can add onto either end. They have long tippet sections- so adding to the butt with some Maxima would seem to be the easier path.
I agree with ^^^^

This would be the easiest solution.

Buy the Rene Harrop 14' leader in the tippet sizes you need and also buy the appropriate X sized tippet spools of Trout Hunters Tippet that you will need.

TroutHunter Rene Harrop Signature Leaders - 14 ft - TroutHunter - Island Park, ID

TroutHunter EVO Nylon Tippet - TroutHunter - Island Park, ID

Call the shop 208-558-9900 and tell them that you also need to buy some butt material to make the leaders longer. Ask them what size and brand of mono to buy to extend the leader. If they don't know, ask what the diameter of the butt section is. Then use Maxima Chameleon that matches the diameter: (20 lb =0.017" diameter), (25 lb = 0.020" diameter), (30 lb = 0.022" diameter) and (40 lb = 0.024").

Here's another method by Louis Cahill of Gink and Gasoline

Tying Extra-Long Fly Leaders That Actually Turn Over | Fly Fishing | Gink and Gasoline | How to Fly Fish | Trout Fishing | Fly Tying | Fly Fishing Blog

As to how to fish with a leader that long, it is likely that when you fish dry flies or "film flies," one of the casts you will using is the downstream parachute cast/mend. I explain the technique here.

Fish up or down stream?

The greased line technique is explained here for fishing flies just under the film:

Limestone creeks and weeds
 

sweetandsalt

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It is true that the TroutHunter knotless tapered leader is superior to normal store bought extruded products and I too recommend their new EVO tippet material along with a few others. Nevertheless, unless one has an aversion to assembling a kit and building his own with Blood Knots, hand built turn over better and are fine tunable by varying the mid taper's sectional lengths. I would, despite conventual wisdom from the good old days, dispense with antiquated and inaccurately rated Maxima and employ a modern copolymer material like RIO Powerflex starting with .021" (40#) for a 5-weight butt of some 4' in length and tapering down to 0X where I would convert over to TroutHunter EVO or RIO Powerflex Plus.

This is what I do with my 6-weight outfits but for #'s 4 and 5 I preferer the Orvis Braid (Medium) or Cutthroat NYLON (not thread) Furl then again build down form 0X to the long tippet. The Braid or Furl have fare less memory and suitable mass to transfer energy from the cast line to tippet. This of course is most relevant for larger technical waters than small streams and is less relevant for sunk nymphing.
 

osseous

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It is true that the TroutHunter knotless tapered leader is superior to normal store bought extruded products and I too recommend their new EVO tippet material along with a few others. Nevertheless, unless one has an aversion to assembling a kit and building his own with Blood Knots, hand built turn over better and are fine tunable by varying the mid taper's sectional lengths. I would, despite conventual wisdom from the good old days, dispense with antiquated and inaccurately rated Maxima and employ a modern copolymer material like RIO Powerflex starting with .021" (40#) for a 5-weight butt of some 4' in length and tapering down to 0X where I would convert over to TroutHunter EVO or RIO Powerflex Plus.

This is what I do with my 6-weight outfits but for #'s 4 and 5 I preferer the Orvis Braid (Medium) or Cutthroat NYLON (not thread) Furl then again build down form 0X to the long tippet. The Braid or Furl have fare less memory and suitable mass to transfer energy from the cast line to tippet. This of course is most relevant for larger technical waters than small streams and is less relevant for sunk nymphing.
I agree- it's definitely a better solution to have the ability to build a custom taper with high end material...if it's going to become your goto. But you're looking at a significant investment. For a one-off solution, a $20 bill will more than get you there with the Trouthunter and still get the job done... and you'll have enough left over for a cold one to celebrate your catch.

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Rip Tide

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I agree- it's definitely a better solution to have the ability to build a custom taper with high end material...if it's going to become your goto. But you're looking at a significant investment. For a one-off solution, a $20 bill will more than get you there with the Trouthunter and still get the job done... and you'll have enough left over for a cold one to celebrate your catch.
It's seems to me that folks, especially around here, are all eager to use the finest rod that they can afford.
That's probably the single most discussed topic on this whole forum
Top of the line reels too, and how about those high end lines?
But as for leaders, it's mostly "what can I do that's a cheap out and still get the job done.?"

That makes no sense to me at all.
Your leader is your connection between you and your fly, and therefore the fish.
It's the most important piece of your gear.
Understanding what it takes to have your leader perform as you'd like it to, and then constructing it to do just that is a distinct advantage over just using a store bought "one size fits all" extruded leader and letting it fly.

Tying your own leaders is very much like tying your own flies.
There's a satisfaction to it. You can tweak them to perform a specific function. (Like turn over a dry fly at 16').
You come to understand why one formula is better in this situation and an other formula is better for that.... just like knowing when your personal go-to emerger is going to out-fish a store bought Adams.

And on top of all that, once you get past the initial investment, it's actually a lot cheaper and easier to tie your own.
 
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sweetandsalt

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Rip and I are in concurrence. Building your own, importantly understanding how and why to build your own leader, is a core fly fishing skill set. I can easily spend more on Scottish Whisky than on a full set of the most expensive monofilament to build innumerable leaders...my way. You don't learn it, or anything of merit, overnight or by looking up an internet leader formula. I don't have a "recipe" to tie a Hendrickson emerger nor a formula to construct a dry fly or bonefish leader; I grasp the principles behind each and, with no ruler, just make them. But I've been practicing and adapting since I was 14 years old. And I still learn new ideas every year.

I can not devise my own rod tapers, I rely on the likes of Siem, Rajeff, Bartschi and a few other really smart rod designers to create the best. But I can create and specialize the performance of my leaders and like those elite rod designers, I'm always experimenting in an effort to do better yet.
 

Rip Tide

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For the most part, I follow the formulas and I use a "ruler".
(actually marks drawn out on my tying desk)
I also know when to modify a leader formula to have it perform to my expectations
It's the same way that I cook.
I'll evaluate a recipe, then I'll adjust it to my own purposes.
 

sweetandsalt

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For example, we are going to fish for redfish in Florida in a week or so. I'll use the same tackle we fish for bonefish with. However, bonefish tend to feed in crystalline water, are max spooky and take sparsely tied flies. Where we will go redfishing the water will mix between clear to stained to mucky. We will throw bulkier flies too. My 8-weight Bahamian fluorocarbon bonefish leader runs 12- 14' but for redfish I will shorten it to 9 - 10' mostly by reducing the segment lengths in the mid section and reducing tippet length to 4'. This will give it a steeper taper for more aggressive turn over of the bigger heavier flies and decompensate for less water clarity to be more wind friendly too.
 

dillon

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I attended the NW Fly Tyer and Fly Fishing Expo, in Albany Oregon the last two days. There I met, Joe Bradley, a bamboo rod maker who resides in St. Anthony Idaho. I cast a couple of his rods. The leader attached to one of them appeared to be furled monofilament. However, Joe explained that it was in fact a twisted nylon leader. Joe makes them himself using three pieces of maxima chameleon. He said they weren't hard to make but he needed to climb a six ft. step ladder three times to do it. Then he offered to sell me his last one for 10 bucks. So, I performed the Sweetandsalt parabolic curve test on the one I had cast and it failed miserably, so I politely declined. He appeared a bit puzzled. If you would like a leader, I can send you his contact info. Judging from where he lives, they must work pretty well. Just thought I'd throw it out there...
 

Ard

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I guess I've done it all, at one point in the 80's I owned a Mason Hard Nylon Kit - the Orvis Kit and the Maxima Kit. I used different materials for various parts of the designs. I had formulas given to me by C.W. (Bill) O'Conner and George Harvy and actually modified from those to get to where I wanted to be...…….

Then by the late 90's I found that I was dry fly fishing less than streamer fishing and I got lazy. I found that I could buy 12 foot tapered leaders that were way heavier than what I needed and add three front sections one of those being the tippet. I have to say that the leaders built up using the knotless tapered 3X twelve foot leaders worked just as well as my knotted hand ties.

I still have to make some but they are true specialty leaders for Spey rod casting with super heavy Sculpin patterns. I was able to imagine and then make a taper that works only because of all the learning done 35 years prior building dry fly leaders.

You can go any way you want with the leader thing but I do believe that learning how to formulate and tie your own is almost a prerequisite to claiming to be a fly fisherman :)
 

osseous

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Don't get me wrong, I carry furled, braided, store bought and many I've tied myself... and I do all my own rigging. I'm sort of a walking tackle box. But I also recognize that few anglers take the time or trouble that I do- So I offered a solution I though would serve the need as described.

Isn't three strands of mono twisted together.... a furled leader? You can also use tying thread, or a number of other materials... or even combine different ones for a unique effect. I built a few last year. The ladder is to let the tails unwind without tangling while you twist the other ends together. They're.....fine. Not as nice as a braided leader IMHO- but quite trendy at the moment.

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Redrock

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I go back and forth on this issue. Like Ard, I had multiple kits 30-40 years go. Back then tying one’s leader was, as S&S wrote, something of an art like fly tying. I used red amnesia just below the hard butt section as a strike indicator. I tied in shock tippet material because 6x and 7x was so weak. I nail knotted hard leader material to new lines and blood knotted the connections. Some of the longer leaders I tied had 8-10 blood knots. What changed?

First I started experimenting with braided leaders. I really liked the turnover of a well built braided leader. I noticed, however, the braided leader flicked micro spray and seemed to spook leader shy fish. I cut back the braid and added mono sections, but I was never totally satisfied. Second, flouro tippet material, while something of a game changer on flat water, added complications such as increased stiffness and the fact it sinks. It’s also harder for me to knot correctly. Third, high quality extruded leaders came on the market. One Fall day, out of frustration with the weeds on the RR section of Henry’s, I bought a long extruded leader. I cut it back and added a few sections of tippet to get the leader to turn over to my satisfaction. I was very happy with the results — supple, good turn over, accuracy and minimal drag.

So, today I split the baby. I prefer a leader which is longer than the stock sizes offered in the shops. I buy soft or hard, flouro or regular mono, tippet material depending on what I am doing. I then cut the leader back and add sections. Depending on the fishing application I may cut back as far as 0x-1x. In the old days I used a leader gauge, but I’ve either gotten lazy or really experienced as I now do this by feel. I blood knot all but the smallest connections which I connect with a double surgeons knot. I always hated straightening leaders and hard butt sections tend to curl. I also felt the multi knot, long leaders created micro drag on flat water.

My style fits me, but I’m always experimenting. In fact I’m toying with going to a furled/flouro set up for a spring creek I like to fish. The point is don’t be afraid to experiment. You may not decide to own a leader kit or ever sit down and tie your own leaders, but I think it valuable to learn proper leader construction. One last example. A quartering stack cast is my “go to” for difficult rising trout. I can’t find a stock leader which accomplishes what I want. I use a really long tippet section on this cast. Getting the tippet to turn over with the accuracy I desire requires me to tinker with the butt-mid sections of the leader. I want a fairly stiff butt and mid section for accuracy but not so much that I end up with a hinge as the leader progresses to the tippet. I want accuracy and a two foot or so drag free drift. Current speed, wind and micro currents all have to be considered in deciding on the final construction of tippet section of the leader.

I reread the above and decided I am turning into one of those “crusty old *******s”. Where did the years go? I’ve reached the point where I would rather spend my time attempting to catch a few tough fish. I’ve got no issue with hoovering water. I can and occasionally do pull out my nymphing bag of tricks. Who doesn’t like to pick pockets on a mountain stream? Stripping a big bugger on a Fall day is crazy exciting. These days, however, I just prefer to sit on a bank, watch a sipper and decide how to catch it. And, I can build a leader to do any of the above!
 

dillon

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Isn't three strands of mono twisted together.... a furled leader?

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That's what I thought it was when I saw it. But, he said no, not furled, it's twisted. I didn't take it any further, Not wanting to risk upsetting him more after my parabolic curve comment...
 
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