Braided line as backing

[runningfish]

Years back I used some leftover 50# PowerPro braided back as my backing for 2 of my reels. As I can remember the 50# PP was thick and rough.

So, I bought several reels and was contemplating to buy some 50# gel spun for 1 of the reels that I'll be using for Blue Water. However, Gel Spun for 300+ yard in 50# is just too expensive and I never had the experience in handling one but I used braided line when I used the conventional tackle. So I bought a couple of spools of Daiwa J-Braid 8 strands 330 yard in 50# and 65#. To my surprise, these products are much thinner than the 50# PP and much smoother too.

I used half the 330 yard of the 50# multicolors on a Danielsson 4Seven which I might never seen again. and thought about exchanging the 60# with 80# or 100# just to have a bit more body.

I am fully aware of the braided line +/- but kinda amazed on how fast things changed in the past couple of years.

 

[bluechipfish]

I had a nearly bad experience on one of my tarpon rods that i have power pro on as backing, I think #60lb. It kept wanting to dig into itself. The same line is fine wahoo trolling on my 50s, so I'm not sure what went wrong there with the fly rod but it was concerning to say the least when you're hooked into a good fish.

I might go back to dacron, or even heavier PP.

 

[silver creek]

I've heard of the "super" lines cutting grooves into snake guides. I don't know if it is true.

Braid cutting guides - Fly Fishing - SurfTalk

 

[runningfish]

Those are exactly my concerns. When I spooled with Braids I took my time to criss cross the braid with my toes applying pressure on the spool. And I am going to exchange the 65# with 100# so it won't groove the guides.

 

[denver1911]

Cutting grooves in the guides? Where are ya’ll fishing? I want to know where to go so I can get so many fish into the backing that I would worry about grooves.

 

[deceiverbob]

I have been using seaguar threadlock. It is a 16 strand hollow core braid. It is very smooth. I use 60 lb which has a slightly smaller diameter than 20 lb dacron

 

[osseous]

Original PowerPro is round profile. The 8 strand and 16 strand hollow core (PowerPro HollowAce among them) are flat when wound onto the spool, and very smooth. They are also very easy to splice. These lines make excellent backing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[ia_trouter]

Cutting grooves in the guides? Where are ya’ll fishing? I want to know where to go so I can get so many fish into the backing that I would worry about grooves.

That's what I was thinking. The last time my braided backing saw sunshine was the day I spooled the reel.

 

[silver creek]

Cutting grooves in the guides? Where are ya’ll fishing? I want to know where to go so I can get so many fish into the backing that I would worry about grooves.

I have had several trout on the Madison River spool me. I suspect that most were foul hooked but I know that one for sure was not.

My partner caught it one day and it spooled him; and the next day I caught it in the same location with the same result. We are positive it was the same fish because the tactic it used was exactly the same. Although we both hooked the fish in a quiet side channel behind the same boulder, it immediately ran downstream into the main channel of the Madison on both our hookups.

On another trip to the Madison River, I saw a fisherman hook up below $3 Bridge on the east side of the Madison River and the brown trout went ACROSS the river to the west side. The guy took off after the fish, waded across the Madison, and fought it on the other side of the river, and released it. Fortunately the guy was about 6' 6". He waded across the river like it was a normal thing to do. Then he waded back towards me. The fish was well 20 inches, maybe 24-25 inches.

I personally don't use superlines. I figure if the fish has all of the 95 feet of fly line in the water, just the drag of the fly line leaves too little extra pressure that I can use to bring the fish back to me. At my age, I can't ever overtake the fish by running after it especially in the Madison. Those days are long gone.

I hope you get there someday if you haven't been. It is my favorite river to fish in the west.

 

[runningfish]

If I tell you, I have to use you as a shark bait.

Kidding aside, picking up braid line as a more economical solution to Gel Spun for blue water off shore fishing. The rest is just because they are cheaper/yard.

 

[denver1911]

I have had several trout on the Madison River spool me. I suspect that most were foul hooked but I know that one for sure was not.

My partner caught it one day and it spooled him; and the next day I caught it in the same location with the same result. We are positive it was the same fish because the tactic it used was exactly the same. Although we both hooked the fish in a quiet side channel behind the same boulder, it immediately ran downstream into the main channel of the Madison on both our hookups.

On another trip to the Madison River, I saw a fisherman hook up below $3 Bridge on the east side of the Madison River and the brown trout went ACROSS the river to the west side. The guy took off after the fish, waded across the Madison, and fought it on the other side of the river, and released it. Fortunately the guy was about 6' 6". He waded across the river like it was a normal thing to do. Then he waded back towards me. The fish was well 20 inches, maybe 24-25 inches.

I personally don't use superlines. I figure if the fish has all of the 95 feet of fly line in the water, just the drag of the fly line leaves too little extra pressure that I can use to bring the fish back to me. At my age, I can't ever overtake the fish by running after it especially in the Madison. Those days are long gone.

I hope you get there someday if you haven't been. It is my favorite river to fish in the west.

“several.” How many does it take to cut grooves into the guides with braid? I’ve had one fish this year go over 200 yards and a couple other ones took over 100. Of course that was hollow braid 80, not the small stuff. It has never even crossed my mind to worry about grooves with only these few fish. On another rod, I see the backing (first fifty feet) 40 or 50 times per year. That’s 30lb micron. Should I worry?

 

[silver creek]

“several.” How many does it take to cut grooves into the guides with braid? I’ve had one fish this year go over 200 yards and a couple other ones took over 100. Of course that was hollow braid 80, not the small stuff. It has never even crossed my mind to worry about grooves with only these few fish. On another rod, I see the backing (first fifty feet) 40 or 50 times per year. That’s 30lb micron. Should I worry?

I don't know since I don't use braid. Do a google search and see if you can come up with any reports.

 

[karstopo]

I use the conventional tackle slick 8 strand braids for backing, sufix or power pro. I can find them on the discount sites for very little $. They are very thin and I can put a ton of 40# on a reel meant for the saltwater.

The primary risky fish inshore here to contend with are larger jack crevalle, a.k.a. Black-Tailed Trevally. They will run off 100-150 yards of backing in a hurry. If I’m wading, I don’t have the option to follow the fish in a boat so some considerable amount of backing is nice to have on the reel. 40# seems about right, 2x or more stronger than my tippet, but not so massive as to take up a lot of extra space on the reel.

Haven’t noticed any grooving in the rod guides. Better redfish will take me a little into the backing on a pretty regular basis. I don’t tend to keep the rod in the exact same position when I battle the fish. Maybe that helps to change the line position as it runs through the rod guides.

 

[knotjoe]

I've heard of the "super" lines cutting grooves into snake guides. I don't know if it is true.

Softer chrome guides, sure, but's it's gonna take some milage of line going through the guides in most cases at higher tensions. I say this because long ago while using cheaper spinning rods, I've worn grooves in softer guides using regular ol' nylon mono. Braid probably would have killed 'em faster.

Never have grooved harder coatings and even Fuji Aconites hold smooth on my spinning rods and 2/10 PowerPro after many years of hard and frequent use on larger fish. Lot's of casting, too.

I personally don't use superlines. I figure if the fish has all of the 95 feet of fly line in the water, just the drag of the fly line leaves too little extra pressure that I can use to bring the fish back to me.

Y'know, man...that's a bit of wisdom and reality more folks should contemplate when assessing their perceived need for backing capacity. Once the whole, fat flyline is out there it's all about the skinny tippet part if the fish cuts one direction or another. Weakest link determines the need for yardage in my world.

On most reels, I just use thicker backing to build-up arbors. On my larger wt LA reels, braid may have a place to get max yardage and still have clearance for the flyline against the reel structures. On large carp and potential long running river fish, 100' of something beyond the flyline gives me a bit of insurance, but I've yet to see it. More for a long cast with a hook-up way out there and I'd probably lose those in a deadfall or beaver porch anyway, but at least I tried.

I think the smoothness of the backing/flyline junction is probably the biggest issue to agonize over. Just that little guide bump or hang-up added to the draggy situation with lighter tippets is going to matter most.

 

[runningfish]

Update,
Keep in mind, this is for 9-12wt saltwater reels and not for chalk stream trout reels.

So I bought the 85# 330 braided line and compared it side by side with the 65# braided line and with 20# and 30# dacron.

The 85# diameter is 0.043mm and the 65# is 0.040mm taken straight from their boxes.
The 65# braid diameter is closed to 20# dacron and the #30 dacron looks twice thicker than the 85# braid, could be more.

The reel that I'll be using with the 85# will take 250 yard of 30# dacron per the mfg specs so that 330 yard will be perfect or maybe even a bit short to build larger arbor.

Playing around with this makes me think that actually using heavy braided line is beneficial for heavier reels intended for big game fish. I get to have better yardage-arbor-strength-price combination than with dacron or gel spun.

by the way, another type of line that I think will be good as a backing is the P-Line Hydrofloat. I used the 50# as a running line for light shooting head for my trout double hand reels. The line is smooth, the 50# have similar thickness to the 20# dacron. Cheap as well. I used to spool the entirety of a 4-5 wt reel with it and attached it to the shooting head.

 

[flafly14]

another vote for the seaguard 16 strand hollow. A tarpon guide I trust recommended it and I've changed over to it. I like it because you can splice a loop - no bimini needed. You can also splice in more if you ever need to - like if you break some off, or if some gets worn on coral or whatever. Another reason the ability to splice if an advantage is if you want to connect different colors for some reason - like the last x yards is a different color so you can be aware if you're running out.

I use the 60lb size.

 

[denver1911]

I put some Jerry Brown hollow on my reels last year (80 lb for the 12 and 60for the 8s and 10s). Pricy, but certainly nice.

 

[runningfish]

This is what 300-310 yard of 85# braided line looks on this Allen Atlas IV.