Good Article: Brainstorming on the "Pro Deal" Conundrum

[mka]

I enjoyed this article very much because I'm always suspicious when an angler is advocating certain gear...I tend to wonder if they may have some kind of incentive to push that item on me. Personally, I don't have a relationship with any company and I like it that way (even having to pay full price) because I can buy and play with any gear I desire...I like variety and fishing with one brand of rod or action profile would get boring for me very quickly. Anyways, I thought others on the forum might like the read also. Link below:

Brainstorming on the “Pro Deal” Conundrum

 

[k_e_v]

Mike, interesting article.
I am friends with a guide and often have wondered how the programs work but I did not want him to think I was angling for a discount so i never asked
I know my friend would never flagrantly abuse the system but he has twice given a program rod to people who broke their personal rods with him in the boat and were in the middle of week long vacations. He told them to finish out their trips and either send the rod back or a couple of $$. Once he got the rod and once the money
And recently I know the Winston rods he has received he has had them personalized with his Lodge name, those rods are beautiful and they are going nowhere


thanks, kevin

 

[mka]

Mike, interesting article.
I am friends with a guide and often have wondered how the programs work but I did not want him to think I was angling for a discount so i never asked
I know my friend would never flagrantly abuse the system but he has twice given a program rod to people who broke their personal rods with him in the boat and were in the middle of week long vacations. He told them to finish out their trips and either send the rod back or a couple of $$. Once he got the rod and once the money
And recently I know the Winston rods he has received he has had them personalized with his Lodge name, those rods are beautiful and they are going nowhere


thanks, kevin

Kevin, your guide friend sounds like a great guy! I didn't know how the programs worked either until I read the article and do think it's a great marketing tool when applied to working guides like your friend. What I didn't realize is how widespread the program works with people touching the industry and how it can adversely affect the fly shops (retailers) with no downside to the manufacturers in view of profit margin.

 

[ryc72]

I just assumed all of those rods on eBay that showed up brand new and at a discount were mostly from folks with pro deals. I fished with a guide who told me that the pro deal he had with one company was contingent on him spending $500 a year on gear. I’m guessing after a while he doesn’t have a need for the newest high end rods or reels or waders or boots. So the natural thing for him to do would be to shell out the $500 for whatever he can sell for $500 or more to stay in their good graces.

 

[taylorreels]

I love almost everything about being involved with Taylor Fly Fishing with the exception of dealing with pro-deals.... We get a huge amount of requests for "pro-forms" and dealing with them is something I have never enjoyed. I don't mind dealing with guides and true industry professionals but we get a surprising amounts of requests for "sponsorships" or "send us a free reel and we will share it all over instagram" requests.

Most guides we deal with are really easy to work with and they add value to the company.

If I could add to the article one issue that I see in the industry, is companies discontinuing a product while there is still a huge amount inventory in the market. This has taught people to just wait until the latest and greatest product comes out and score a deal on the old one. This isn't bad when most the inventory has left the market... but when there is still huge quantities around, it kinda devalues the need to pay full price. This can really hurt shops as they have to sell old inventory at a loss. Im sure consumers love it... but it really does hurt retailers. Imagine having 50-100 discontinued rods in the shop that you have to sell at a loss... not good.

 

[tcorfey]

Maybe my thought is a little too drastic but I would think that every "Pro Purchase" should require the purchaser to register with the product. Then they pay a "deposit" that can be redeemed for manufacturer credit on a different item if the original product is returned within a six month period. If the registered purchaser chooses to keep the item past the six month grace period they must pay the retailer full price for the item.

The used/returned products can be offered on a secondary market perhaps at a discount to the retailers and purchasers at a reduced price or it is eligible to be donated to a cause. This way if a product does find it's way out of the system then the ultimate purchaser buys a used item or if they were the only one to use it then they paid full price. Of course the used rods would not have a full warranty so while it is a current item it is used and has a certain risk normally associated with buying used equipment at a reduced cost.

This gives product testers ample time to evaluate a product, gives guides a ready supply of either new or used equipment and both the manufacturer and the retailer still make some coin on the item. It would also still allow the average Joe to get a current offering for a lower cost but the risk is shared by all.

Just a thought.

Tim C.

 

[karstopo]

Sounds like a good system for the gear maker/marketing concern, at least from what I get out of the article. The maker gets to get a lot of people engaged and presumably touting their products dealt away at wholesale prices (no loss for the maker), the same prices as what a fly shop retailer might pay, without having to have many people on an actual payroll to promote the product. I guess the downside for the maker/marketing concern is there are lots of people that want in on the wholesale price “pro deal”.

Why sweat the vetting process and just give the wholesale price to anyone that represents themselves as pros or influencers? The wholesale price is what the retailer pays so the maker/marketing concern is making a profit on every item let go at wholesale prices.

No loss for the maker is incurred, more product is moved, more is out in the marketplace, everyone is happy, except perhaps for the fly shop that has to mark up their inventory to retail to clear a profit and maybe the consumer that doesn’t have the pro deal and pays full retail. But even the consumer can benefit as the pro deal gear comes up on the auction sites at the near wholesale prices. Really, the only one that doesn’t potentially benefit from the current pro deal arrangement is the retailer, but if it gets more people fishing maybe they can shift into inventory that doesn’t lend itself to being promoted by the pro deal system.

I don’t see how the system is broke at all, at least from the maker/marketing company’s perspective. Maybe some pros don’t think other pros are worthy of the same deal they are getting. I suppose there is a pro pecking order out there.

 

[ia_trouter]

Seems like an issue for the individual manufacturer to work out with their retailers. I wouldn't expect Taylor to operate the same as Orvis or Simms, as Taylor is the retailer and designer, not the manufacturer. As far as good reviews in exchange for free product, that is running wild on Youtube for about any product you can think of. Homework is necessary for good buying decisions. There are a lot of professional reviewers on social media and online retailing sites.

 

[myt1]

I love almost everything about being involved with Taylor Fly Fishing with the exception of dealing with pro-deals.... We get a huge amount of requests for "pro-forms" and dealing with them is something I have never enjoyed. I don't mind dealing with guides and true industry professionals but we get a surprising amounts of requests for "sponsorships" or "send us a free reel and we will share it all over instagram" requests.

Most guides we deal with are really easy to work with and they add value to the company.

If I could add to the article one issue that I see in the industry, is companies discontinuing a product while there is still a huge amount inventory in the market. This has taught people to just wait until the latest and greatest product comes out and score a deal on the old one. This isn't bad when most the inventory has left the market... but when there is still huge quantities around, it kinda devalues the need to pay full price. This can really hurt shops as they have to sell old inventory at a loss. Im sure consumers love it... but it really does hurt retailers. Imagine having 50-100 discontinued rods in the shop that you have to sell at a loss... not good.

With minor exceptions, I purchased almost all my rods as closeouts.

 

[mka]

Seems like an issue for the individual manufacturer to work out with their retailers. I wouldn't expect Taylor to operate the same as Orvis or Simms, as Taylor is the retailer and designer, not the manufacturer. As far as good reviews in exchange for free product, that is running wild on Youtube for about any product you can think of. Homework is necessary for good buying decisions. There are a lot of professional reviewers on social media and online retailing sites.

Agree...huge difference between the big boys like Sage and Taylor Fly Reels. Social media is changing the market and I'm not sure for the best. Those professional reviewers are having a "nice ride" at the moment, but I'm not sure about the future for that channel of advertising...all I know is that I don't trust their feedback to me, the consumer. I'm betting (hoping) that there will always be fly shops for guys like me who like to put their hands on the product and test it before spending on premium products...hope as you say the manufacturers start valuing more their retailer network and the benefits of such.

 

[pheldozer]

i'd be interested to see some metrics on how much a retailer suffers from whatever minuscule % of their regular customers have access to proforms. most of the people I know who are on "prostaff" (terrible term!) greatly value that opportunity, and will not, under any circumstances, buy things for their friends/clients.

if retailers are losing that much business from a particular manufacturer because of their pro-program, why not just stop carrying their line of equipment?

 

[denver1911]

I read it because I figured it would be entertaining, not because I wanted to know about “pro deals.” Guy seems frustrated. Who am I to tell a manufacturer, retailer, guide, author, or any other person how to run their business. Especially with the tone that seemed, to me, to come across in his article. I would think that a more professional, and effective, way to influence would be through personal conversation and discussion of the issues. Sure, suggested solutions are probably welcomed in that private and respectful venue, but it is, after all, their business and they have probably thought these things through. Don’t like the way pro deals are run? Don’t partake. No reason to complain all over the internet about it unless you just like to complain.

 

[Ard]

I read it because I figured it would be entertaining, not because I wanted to know about “pro deals.” Guy seems frustrated. Who am I to tell a manufacturer, retailer, guide, author, or any other person how to run their business. Especially with the tone that seemed, to me, to come across in his article. I would think that a more professional, and effective, way to influence would be through personal conversation and discussion of the issues. Sure, suggested solutions are probably welcomed in that private and respectful venue, but it is, after all, their business and they have probably thought these things through. Don’t like the way pro deals are run? Don’t partake. No reason to complain all over the internet about it unless you just like to complain.

On point.

I didn't reply because I didn't bother to read the linked article. I was able to ascertain the content based on the replies I browsed here. This whole thread seems unnecessary to me. People who work for automobile dealerships get to drive new cars & trucks, do I care? Doctors are given samples of medications to hand out and on and on.

Many here like the Hank Patterson.s comic fly fishing videos but I'm not about to write an obscure article decrying his corporate sponsors. Some people who have fished with me found my crude sense of humor to be entertaining, perhaps I should be an Orvis Pro or Yetti sponsored guide?

At times it seems that people spend way too much time searching for a chink in the armor of even long established programs and companies when the matter has little or nothing to do with them personally. The article may qualify as such, perhaps I'll read it now.

 

[Ard]

OK, I had a read.

I'm not famous and don't have a face book account which is apparently what started this off. I'll also admit that I only got as far as #1 of his ten points he believes would remedy this cancer growing within the fly fishing world. Geez, this guy wrote more regarding this topic than I did when I was producing blog posts and threads aimed at helping people become more proficient at swinging their streamers and I'm not sure his work was meant to help anyone.

Brainstorming? I was once part of a Brainstorming committee, it was a labor management participation committee aimed at productivity. If I recall the group had a dozen members from across the spectrum of the plant with both union and management family present for many meetings. I also recall there was a lot at stake which I don't recognize in regard to this pro deal situation...…… Perhaps the author gathered a panel of representatives from all the major tackle manufactures and also from the "secret society" who purportedly are growing fat from these deals, although I think not.

No offense Mike but I could easily categorize the article along with the thread titled 'Questionable Behavior' which was posted yesterday. Nothing within the piece spoke to me as being positive or in any way helpful to fly fishermen in general. I'll slip into the saddle of my high horse for a few sentences and ask that you all excuse me...…

I already said I'm not famous and that is an accurate assessment. I have however written tens of thousands of words on this forum for the large part aimed at being helpful or at least friendly. Like everyone I've had my lapses of reason where I rubbed people the wrong way however the general overtone has been one of a positive message. When I read something that seems to have been composed in a moment of angst I wonder if the precipitant was just a moment or a deeper obsession.

I think the author spent a lot of time and typed a large document that may serve no greater good in fly fishing other than to fan embers of division and or suspicion among the fraternity of fly fishing anglers. In the end I have the same assessment as I had for the Questionable Behavior thread, who cares?

 

[sweetandsalt]

Having just returned from Montana where I took a break from media of all manor (a healthy relaxation technique), I have not and likely won't read this article. My view on this matter is though that when Yellowstone or Telluride Angler, or someone on his/her blog or on this Forum even, writes a product review, it generates interest in the new rod or whatever which can only benefit the manufacturer and retailer. However, when I soon write about my experience with my new wading staff, appropriately under the multi-page Wading Staff thread, it may not radiate the positive interest usually associated with internet reviews.

 

[Ard]

I always find problems with the wading staffs curious. Just yesterday I fished through the lower canyon of a remote river here which offers up some of the most challenging wading conditions I've ever dealt with. I of course used my Simms carbon fiber assistant and made the ankle wrenching 2 mile trek without any problems. Staff has been in use ever since I gave my Folstaff to Nancy years ago so all I can say is that if the offending staff is a Simms I have no clue. Every single product I have and use from that company exceeds my expectations.

By the way, I just ordered another Fishpond / Nomad carbon fiber Boat Net because I have other people carrying my Guide model and Boat net which leaves me net-less. I really like them too, basically indestructible and can double as a wading stick due to length.

 

[MichaelCPA]

Having seen this issue in other industries, quite a common issue. Two possible solutions, first one is tongue-in-cheek:

1. Influencers pay double.

2. Manufacturers undercutting their retail chain risk being dropped from the retail chain (or put in the back room). Fenwick anyone?

 

[sweetandsalt]

I sincerely doubt that pro deals to guides and journalists, which have strict limitations and are done directly with the manufacturer, negatively impact retail shop sales. They are part of the companies' advertising/promotion budget to increase sales. Now ebay and the second hand market are another story; they clearly impact sales at retail but the consumer rules the fly fishing market.