Fly rod reviews,video footage anyone?

[The op]

I ll say this without naming names and trying to offend anyone.

MOST ‘expert’ flyrod reviews that I watch online usually leave me raising one eyebrow and wondering whether I should be taking these guys seriously,I mean,a lot of shocking loops being thrown,plate slapping,leader collapse,and some magical leader flailing that I wish I could do on purpose,in slow mo,, they talk the talk but I don’t see them walking the walk.

What I’d love to see are some real video reviews by some proficient casters on this forum,anyone up for it?

I don’t know how I rank as a caster,but I’m happy where I’m at but still ever improving.

I guess now after saying that I ll have to put my money where my mouth is so to speak.

 

[el jefe]

I think part of the issue with some of those video reviews is unrealistic expectations. I'll explain...

When you log onto this and other forums, you will read about guys who talk about these very tight, parallel loops where the two legs are just inches apart, and the ability to throw the whole line. I don't know about you, but I can't throw the whole line. And my loop legs are never parallel along their entire distance.

If you visit a golf forum, everybody drives the ball over 300 yards, when in reality almost nobody does. I think we do this on fly fishing forums, too, when we wax poetic about this rod or that line. I can get to about 70 feet from where I stand, and that's it. Factor in 10' for a leader, another 10' for the 9' rod and how I hold my arm slightly out in front of me, and that's 50 feet of fly line out. I still feel pretty good about that.

I wonder if we are really casting as far as we think, or that our loops actually form that mythical perfect tight loop as are drawn in the instruction books and bragged about whenever a new rod comes out? In any case, you won't be seeing any video reviews from me! I will save you the laughter and me the ignominy.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I agree OP there are laughable videos and written reviews out there but the only final review I trust is myself casting the rod before I buy it, unless the rod is cheap, than who cares, but generally after enough reviews on a cheap rod you pretty much know what you are in for.

Searching for some spey gear reviews last night, whenever I'm looking for high end gear reviews and advice there isn't really much out there and lots of conflicting information. I could post more than five conflicting reports about my switch rod that were done by experts in fly shops.

Honesty in rod reviews, The good, the bad and the ugly is worth its weight in gold. There still isn't one rod that will do it all and cover every kind of fly fishing discipline and size and type of water. Personally I don't think a rod is bad if a writer says it doesn't perform well in certain specific kinds of fishing, I know its not the right rod I`m looking for. On forums you will make people cry or receive hate mail.

Many reviews are by paid experts to post positive reviews and fly shops that want to sell rods. There are a lot of company shills out there. I think its best to get a few reviews off the net, talk to some experts that you know and then go try the rod yourself. No one can tell you what rod you like.

 

[cooutlaw]

Interesting topic. To a good degree I absolutely agree with you. What I have taken into account is that a number of the people reviewing rods on video are "parking lot" or "lawn" testing the rods and many of them are somewhat new to the industry....some I would say are almost novices themselves....maybe 5 years experience in some cases. That doesn't make them bad or the reviews bad but the depth of experience can often be limited. IE: It's pretty hard for someone to review 20 years of rod progression and comparison if they haven't been fly fishing for 20 years. I also think that a number of the reviewers are fly shop "sales" personnel. They are not casting instructors, nor guides, nor do they spend 250 days a year on the water, because they are in the shop managing or selling and, like many of us, their on water opportunities and more limited than a guides would be and we all know practice makes perfect and that there is no substitution for real world experience.

This all said, I too have laughed, guilty as charged, at some of the videos, while others have been more "realistic"...particularly those on the water in actual guiding or fishing situations.

I in no way consider myself an expert caster, I've been around a few and I'm not in that league. I get by, and occasionally look like I might know what I am doing, but my experience is limited to 35+ years of fishing, 4-5 years of that guiding, and is mostly self taught, so I do not have grand expectations from my abilities, it's a hobby for me now and a relaxing pastime that I enjoy, if I can regularly operate my equipment adequately in all situations to consistently bring fish to net, then I'm happy with that performance level and don't desire anything further.

I also wonder on occasion, perhaps as el jefe eluded to, how many people really understand distances, techniques, mends, roll casts, etc. Particularly the things that help people catch fish....It's not uncommon that I see anglers on even mid size water "hero" casting for distance, why I do not know, and assume they don't either. When I cast at home, for relaxation or familiarizing with a new rod before I head to water, I do so on the side of my outbuilding in a casting area that I set up long ago.....it's next to a fence with 8' sections, it's about 180' in total length.....in theory, placing myself in the middle gives me enough room to "carry" 90' of line in both forward and back casts, which I have never done....never likely ever will....I have "shot" line 80-90' forward on rare occasion just to test a rods and my "juice", but it's certainly not my common practice. I do intentionally cast to reach 8 sections of fence....64'.....or there about +/- leader length...so maybe 70' total....when trying to see the comfortable ranges of new rods and where diminished accuracy becomes issue. Most reasonably powered med/fast 5 and 6 wt rods will do this without issue....but again, it's not to see how far a rod can be cast, it's to see where the reserve power let's you know you've reached peak velocity and to determine where between 0-70' range a particular rod likes to live.

Realistically, I don't enjoy horsing out hero casts, it's not fun, it's tiring, and in most instances useless to the fishing situation in the real world. If somebody wants to just chuck for distance, more power to 'em, but I'm not in that club.

To this regard, being a small/med size water fan, I am all about accuracy and delicacy of presentation, getting a good drift, properly mending for most opportunity, I'm about things that catch fish....the fishing....and catching....arguably there is a difference between a great caster and great fisherman, some elite few are experts at both, myself again I'm not in that club.....I am not an expert caster, but I like to consider myself a decent fisherman. With that, I may not be the prettiest line chucker on the river, but my net is usually busier than most and that is what matters more to me.

Lastly, and maybe I'm all wet, but even when I see I great caster with beautiful loops and/or shooting tremendous distance, I wonder to myself....where does he fish like that? Where can he use that distance? Some competitions are crazy 200' stuff......um...why? But alas, I'm a small water trout guy, know nothing of spey, or Salt, or any other greater water disciplines of fly fishing.....so I'll just keep trying to make accurate and delicate presentations from 10-60' on the water I fish, keep mending, hope for good drifts, and try to stay in enough feeding lanes to catch a fish or two.....I'll let others worry about the casting. YMMV. My 2cents and likely worth half of that...maybe. .

 

[scotty macfly]

When I watch those video reviews, and they start casting the perfect casts with tight loops like el jefe explained, I tend to believe it's all done with CGI. With a few exceptions of course.

For the waters I fish, positioning oneself is more important than long casts. If I can get into a position where a short, deliberate cast is made where I can use the rod as a tool to control my line and fly, then I did it right. Parking lot casts on the river doesn't do me any good. Why try to catch fish 60' out when there's a multitude of fish just half the distance away, and even closer.

 

[osseous]

Fishing is more about lessening false casts, reading water and currents and keeping the fly in front of the fish in as natural a presentation, for as long as possible. Being able to throw a flat 4" loop is one measure of the skill of an expert caster- but being able to throw multiple, accurate, aerial mends- that match the read of the river the first time? That is real casting mastery. Most people are unaware that this level even exists.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[boisker]

CGI flycasting.... undoubtedly the worst use of CGI ever

I’m pretty certain the internet isn’t full of CGI casting geeks......

 

[The op]

Eljefe,cmon man,i know you can do some neat stuff with that t&t of yours,,if it all goes pear shaped,boisker can cgi it better for you.

Cooutlaw,ive been at it roughly 28 years,self taught with no instruction whatsoever.We all develope a unique style,and not perfect,,id like to see your 35 years worth.I know no expert casters and dont consider to be one myself,its a never ending improvement.
Your post is the full 2 cents

Scottymcfly,tactical stealthy positioning is a valuable skillset in itself,then its time for casting techniques,we all have prefered casting distances,but the distance required is the distance from you to the fish,which could be any number,,mends,reading currents,putting the fly as naturally as possible to the fish,and all the other fishy stuff that happens afterwards as osseous and cooutlaw pointed out.

Unknownflyman,its all good to describe the bad points of a rod,it is helpful,,What i dont get is someone that states something like 'man this thing throws dream loops at 50 ft and puts the fly down like a butterfly with sore feet all day' ,,then procede,on film to throw 5 minutes worth of tailing loops and pulverizing the fly into the ground,plate,or chosen target,like an obese mad caddis on crack,,is not what id expect from them after their poetic writen report and convincing speech,,,i wanna see said sore footed butterfly and nice loops.

Nextweek im going to start filming some of my practice sessions,on grass for my own improvement benefit.
At all distances a nice highspeed tight parallel looped cast is a very handy fishing cast to have,even moreso with an added air mend.
I can throw a full line,but rarely do,,99% of my practice time on grass involves improving distance judgement,ariel mends,loop shape,and casting techiniques,mostly between 20 to 50 ft but also 10 to 80 ft,depending on rod.i use all these distances in the field,and the lawn practice keeps me in the zone and sharp,helps my fishing immensely.

I have a couple of rods that i consider special,and id like to share with you guys,on film,what they excel at.

 

[The op]

To elaborate on my practice,i have beside the sofa a 2 weight glass cgr with small foam hopper that i fire off bow and arrow casts to various targets joe humphries style,under the dining table in the 5 inch gap between the chair legs 15 ft away has been my favorite of late,,and when i wanna open up occasionally it gets the kneel down hallway cast,and hook cast into the spare room.
On the back porch is rigged epic 480 which mostly gets the underhand and underpowered curve cast workout around the witches hats in the yard that i picture as boulders in the pocket waters that i fish,the tight loop and side arm under the tree hook cast,the high over the garage backcast and accuracy test on the 3 strategically placed coffee mugs.

Down the side is room for a 70ft cast and big aerial mends reserved for the big boys,igniter,t&t avantt and asquith.

For water pickup and laydown,and shs methods and roll casts i head to the pond 5 minutes away,

When im not doing any of these at home or at the pond,,im working,tying flies or fishing.

 

[eastfly66]

I watch a lot of reviews and this one is one of the best so far !

YouTube


and yes , I am not kidding.

 

[Critter]

You will not see me making a video of my casting, I know I am not great, nor even very good. But I do know the fish will tell me me if it’s a decent cast or not. I can mess up a cast or two or several and bass, panfish even trout many times will still take my fly. I have found carp are a totally different story. Sometimes I make what feels to me a perfect cast, and they shun my fly. Some I make a good cast and they will take it. But it’s very rare, not sure if it’s happened even. That I make a poor ( not even bad) cast and caught one. These things make me try and present each fly perfect, but I am far from one that can do it each and every time. I also know that these trash fish have a hold of my fricken brain, as that is all I can think of, now that I have gone to to dirty side. I try and keep the other species off my damn hook, but they insist on taking more poorly cast fly more times then I can count.

 

[sweetandsalt]

How quickly we morph in our Forum threads from the OP's (op) subject to "catching fish". The point of rod reviews is about how a given rod performs during CASTING. Now I concur with all above that PRESENTATION catches fish and even make a distinction between the cast and presentation techniques, even sometimes referring to live line versus slack line handling. I am a good caster with baked in the cake, self taught flaws. I have friends who are tournament casters, rod designers, casting instructors, that can cast circles around me and I know it...sometimes I include one of them as a fellow lawn caster for added insight into a rods raw performance. I am not a natural athlete and have issues with perfection of smooth, symmetrical timing and I tend to go a little 3 dimensional on my backcast, always have.

Sure I write some rod reviews though I try to avoid comparative ratings which I regard as meaningless...only each of us individually can rate a rod for our own angling. (And I make no money nor am trying to sell anything to anybody.) Distance potential, leaving salt flats fishing aside, is primarily an indicator of a rods capability (in your hands) at all distances. Lower taper reserves that are a prerequisite for distance are also vital for supportive line speed generation at shorter distances too. Line speed and loop formation are major contributors to aerial live-line manipulation that osseous was referring to. I can test for line manipulation potential on the lawn but it is hard to "review" and only actual angling reveals the rods true character in this important aspect of performance.

Lastly, and video aside, I have an old friend who writes books and teaches fly fishing in various habitats. I have still photographed him and am always amazed in editing my shots that he throws this perfect long loop but at the end of his line is this arbitrary pigtail of a knotless tapered leader. "Common man, I say, loose that junkie leader, it is a handicap." He says "no it is fine". He casts better and further than I do but I get nice, smooth, controllable leader deployment that he can not come close to.

 

[osseous]

.....and as a result of reading of your passion for leader performance, I have revisited my leaders for dry fly fishing. I had used the Orvis braided butt sections way back in the 80s for highly technical fisheries- first turning to them for shock absorbsion when using tiny midges on 8X on the Swift river's "Y" pool, and on DePuy Spring Creek and Cheeseman. Not really for their turnover, but for that cushion when setting the hook, and the better drag free drifts they provide in braided currents in glides and seams. The turnover is something you brought home for me- to eliminate that hitch in my casting loop, after spending so much time to get the hard part of the cast ironed out. Casting is a lot more fun when the fly lands just where you are focusing your eyes- and the right leader allows for that. The wrong leader makes it nearly impossible.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[cooutlaw]

Although on smaller water...I thought readers might enjoy this video footage that demonstrates casting techniques that, even if considered less than the beautiful traditional forms of premier casters, catch fish. I thought this was pretty much in line with the earlier postings of what constitutes acceptable casting excellence for anglers and video reviews of rods (although there is no rod review here).

I am still in the camp that if a technique and presentation are acceptable to fish, it's acceptable to me and the video footage that I would prefer to see in a rod review is how the rod fishes and handles fish, a great casting rod is nice, a great fishing rod is far better to me. I don't want to see 20-70 yard plates or hula hoops, I'd like to see a rod mending, roll casting, how it handles with and without a haul/double haul, cross stream reach cast, feeding line, stack mends, shooting line, hook sets, turning fish, etc.....then I believe we would have a value added video rod review......in any event...in this video, the angler isn't lawn casting....he's fishing....and it's pretty hard to deny that although his form is perhaps less than traditional in casting style....he certainly is handy enough with a rod to catch fish.

YouTube


Alternatively - Hank Patterson video on casting/rod review :

YouTube

 

[Critter]

I believe they morphed to catching fish, as that is what a fly rod is for, is it not ? I could care less about casting them for anything other then catching fish. If it wasn’t for fishing I for sure would not own a fly rod. I don’t cast one to be judged by people how perfect or pretty I cast, and i despise the sophisticated attitude of many “ fly fisherman”.

 

[boisker]

You ‘despise the sophisticated attitude of many fly fisherman’....
I reckon you need to chill out and stop getting so worked up about what others do

 

[cooutlaw]

I believe they morphed to catching fish, as that is what a fly rod is for, is it not ? I could care less about casting them for anything other then catching fish. If it wasn’t for fishing I for sure would not own a fly rod. I don’t cast one to be judged by people how perfect or pretty I cast, and i despise the sophisticated attitude of many “ fly fisherman”.

I actually "liked" this post because I do believe the thread moved into catching fish and actually fishing as a perceived more important aspect of our sport than "casting" or "rod reviews." We all fly fish for different reasons, but a commonality that we share is that we all enjoy the past time because it allows us the opportunity to escape the burdens of everyday life, and shift our focus to the pursuit of quarry...a primal and closer to nature ritual. Granted, we often times are simply seeking peace and tranquility, it is often repeated that if we fished only for fish, we would have quit fishing long ago....I agree we often seek more in the form of mental and emotional restoration, but the end reward has always been releasing a wonderful fish. To this point, every angler will evolve throughout their lives and reach different plateaus of enlightened maturity, purist was an early term for fly anglers....and with it did come an enigma of sophisticated and superior attitudes, but rest assured, there have been decades of rugged sportsmen that have angled by fly chiseled from rugged reaches of the toughest outdoors that do not resemble twill clad sophisticated fly fishermen in any regard. The "movie" may have portrayed early MT as such, but in my extensive time there, I have not found weathered residents, flannel, and pickup trucks to illustrate that as a true reflection of reality. Nor have I experienced that throughout the the predominant west. That said, one of the plateaus that all anglers will eventually reach is experienced enough to no longer concern themselves with any opinion or image of what "fly fishing" is perceived by others to be.....and will focus on only what that image is to them....to this point...there will come a time when "fly fishing" to them will be to.....simply fish.

My point in summary: Many of us enjoy testing and experimenting with rods, I think we all enjoy owning nice equipment when possible, we all enjoy learning and improving knowledge and skillsets and appreciate displays of expert prowess, but perhaps even more important than all of that, to the majority of us, is we enjoy the act of fishing far more and strive to be better anglers, not just to become better casters or to own better rods. I would argue, that better equipment, nor better casting skills alone....will not make you a better angler. Experience and Knowledge will.

 

[Critter]

You ‘despise the sophisticated attitude of many fly fisherman’....
I reckon you need to chill out and stop getting so worked up about what others do

Oh I am not worked up, and can give two poops about what others do, as long as I don’t have to deal with them.

 

[sweetandsalt]

Fly rod reviews, the subject here, are not fishing. Just like track testing a car is not driving about on the way to the river. Oh, and I always wonder why the pro automotive journalists don't include maximum rod length that can fit, unbent, in the vehicle... Reviewing a rod is about its potential performance and characteristics during the CASTING process. The intent of a review or comparative reviewing is to strive to narrow the field to the applications and particular techniques employed in FISHING. Just like in the automotive review, I'm uninterested in what some commuter in my neighborhood thinks about the performance of his new vehicle, I'd rather hear from the track trained professional driver who is attuned to the intricacies of the subject. Identically, and here we go to op's video question, a skilled caster with excellent form will inform us more about a rods potential than an "I just want to go fishing" dude's opinion.

When I test a rod, that is what I am doing, evaluating its characteristics. When I go fishing, then I'm about immersing myself in the natural world where I am at my most content and focused happy self. On the river, my tackle is simply a cybernetic extension of my body and its transparency is assured by my having evaluated for myself what is going to work optimally in a given habitat. This does not mean that every outfit I fish is a contemporary technical work of art from the premium class of the newest and greatest. The two outfits currently rigged up for tomorrow morning's potential foray to an Atlantic Ocean jetty are an old Diamondback Americana and an also dated Redington RS4...both a little crude but highly serviceable 2-pc. models with funky Cortland and Redington 9-weight reels. Neither will be "reviewed" by me but we will love fishing with them in the predawn hour of incoming tide. Oh, there is a very good chance we will catch...nothing.

 

[The op]

Critter,i dont know what you consider a good cast,but im guessing,like many you may believe a good cast lays line leader and fly out straight on the water,producing instant drag with following refusals from picky fish,,and your bad casts may not be as pretty and not turning over properly,or may recoil from overpowering producing slack in the line and leader,and no instant drag,which will result in a better drift and less refusals.
These are learned casts and if done with good form,no tangles,and with accuracy and intentional slack placed in line and leader where you want it to be,,are indeed considered a good cast where a bad cast would be considered dead straight and pretty,,in a different habitat it may be viceversa.
If you practice them while not fishing,yes even on grass,id bet it would help you to catch more fish.


I have more to add to this thread,but for now i must move,,the hatch will be on in 2 hours.