salt vs. fresh fly lines

[falconer57]

So I was in a discussion with a local vendor about putting line on a reel. He said that I could get a freshwater 6 weight line on that backing but there was not enough room for a saltwater line. I said what? He said that saltwater lines of the same weight are fatter than freshwater lines. So if each line is labeled 6 weight, how can one be fatter? Don't they measure the lines by weight in grains?

 

[brianrap]

Certain saltwater lines are intended for use in warmer climes, water and different wind conditions. They may also have longer heads (which is a wider diameter) due to winds and different types of flies so they use different core materials. A saltwater line is often stiffer than a freshwater line, which may result in a different diameter of the lines due to the different cores. Saltwater lines are also sometimes longer than freshwater lines.

 

[denver1911]

I have no knowledge of the question, but wanted to point out that, if a designer were so inclined, a line to float in salt water could be made thinner than a line to float in fresh water. Salt water is denser.

 

[Hirdy]

Your vendor is wrong.

There's no property inherent in a "salt water" line that is different to a "fresh water" line. They are all fly lines and can be used in either. Some lines are fat, some are thin, some are long, some are short.

Ask him how much backing can be accommodated with a DT line vs an integrated shooting head.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[silver creek]

So I was in a discussion with a local vendor about putting line on a reel. He said that I could get a freshwater 6 weight line on that backing but there was not enough room for a saltwater line. I said what? He said that saltwater lines of the same weight are fatter than freshwater lines. So if each line is labeled 6 weight, how can one be fatter? Don't they measure the lines by weight in grains?

As Hirdy said all lines can be used in fresh or saltwater.

There are temperate climate fly lines and tropical climate fly lines with the "tropical" lines used in warm water whether the water is fresh or salt. Temperate climate fly lines get limper and the coatings get softer (stickier) in hot climates. Tropical climate lines get stiff and tend to stay coiled up in cool water.

Although salt water is denser and therefore fly lines tend to be more buoyant, fly line companies do NOT change the density of a line to compensate for fresh vs salt water buoyancy.

Since salt water is denser than freshwater, there is NO need for a floating saltwater line to be thicker than a fresh water line. If anything, a floating saltwater line can be a bit thinner and still float.

Maybe there was a miscommunication .

 

[deceiverbob]

I have no knowledge of the question, but wanted to point out that, if a designer were so inclined, a line to float in salt water could be made thinner than a line to float in fresh water. Salt water is denser.

I once had a 7 wt bonefish line. I used the line on a coldwater trout trip as it was all I had except for a 9 wt. The running line would slowly sink in the river. I never had that problem when I fished it in the salt.

 

[sixwtslinger]

Besides taper differences, and stiffness, some salt water lines are longer (100-105').
Personally, I usually stay clear of specialty lines that may be slightly better at one thing but at the expense of another. I generally buy general purpose WF lines with a head length of at least 36'. So far the fish don't seem to care.

 

[karstopo]

One thing I’ve noticed is that at least some of the harder coated saltwater tropical lines resist absorbing or picking up fine grained mud better than freshwater fly line. So I have a freshwater SA Titan taper and the saltwater Titan. The freshwater line is 90’ and the Saltwater is at least 100’. The freshwater line loses its slickness from impregnated grime far more quickly than the saltwater version.

So the tropical saltwater lines continue to cast well for a lot longer than the freshwater version of the same taper, both being employed in the same way and under the same conditions. Airflo and SA tropical saltwater lines perform well under tough, grimy conditions for outing after outing, but I’ve yet to find a freshwater line that does the same.

 

[denver1911]

In summary .. most saltwater lines are different than freshwater lines .. maybe stiffer, different tapers, sometimes longer, etc., etc., etc. Some of these differences might make a particular saltwater line take up more room on a reel than a particular freshwater line of the same weight .. but not because it’s a “saltwater line” .. because it’s bulkier for the attributes that particular line posesses.

P.s. on the idea that saltwater lines could be made thinner than an equivalent freshwater line and still float .. why wouldn’t a manufacturer do it? I mean, thinner .. read that as less wind resistant .. and the same weight .. what’s not to like about that!

 

[Hirdy]

In summary .. most saltwater lines are different than freshwater lines ... Some of these differences might make a particular saltwater line take up more room on a reel than a particular freshwater line of the same weight

This is definitely not my experience. Most "saltwater lines" are the same as their "fresh water" counterparts and are not thicker nor take up more reel space. A 6wt Rio Bonefish line takes up pretty much the same volume on a reel as a 6wt SA Trout Mastery or a 6wt Rio DT or a 6wt Rio SH Spey or a 6wt Rio Gold*. I know because I have all of these lines and swap between them as needed.

The only 6wt line I can't fit on my reel without taking backing off is a Snowbee 6wt Roll Cast line. It's a "freshwater" line that is 120' long with a 60' head, 40' of which is front taper.

Tropical lines are stiffer than temperate lines. But even these do not require the removal of backing to swap lines.

The lines that have the highest volume per line length on the reel are DT lines. That's understandable, since they are all "belly" except for the tapers on each end. These are exclusively "fresh water" lines (i.e. I've yet to find one that is marketed in a way that would be attractive to fishermen like me who only fish in salt water.) Most DT lines are only 80' long though, so once again, the volume taken on the reel is about the same as for "saltwater" lines.

The lines that have the lowest volume per line length are sinking lines. They do not have the glass bubbles incorporated into the coating to make them float, so they take up less space on the reel. (Even thinner are silk lines, but that's another category all together.)

As we'd expect, intermediate lines fall in the middle.

In summary, most saltwater lines are the same as their freshwater counterparts - except for the box they come in.

Cheers,
Graeme

* I no longer use the Rio Gold, so that's been sold.

 

[denver1911]

This is definitely not my experience. Most "saltwater lines" are the same as their "fresh water" counterparts and are not thicker nor take up more reel space. A 6wt Rio Bonefish line takes up pretty much the same volume on a reel as a 6wt SA Trout Mastery or a 6wt Rio DT or a 6wt Rio SH Spey or a 6wt Rio Gold*. I know because I have all of these lines and swap between them as needed.

The only 6wt line I can't fit on my reel without taking backing off is a Snowbee 6wt Roll Cast line. It's a "freshwater" line that is 120' long with a 60' head, 40' of which is front taper.

Tropical lines are stiffer than temperate lines. But even these do not require the removal of backing to swap lines.

The lines that have the highest volume per line length on the reel are DT lines. That's understandable, since they are all "belly" except for the tapers on each end. These are exclusively "fresh water" lines (i.e. I've yet to find one that is marketed in a way that would be attractive to fishermen like me who only fish in salt water.) Most DT lines are only 80' long though, so once again, the volume taken on the reel is about the same as for "saltwater" lines.

The lines that have the lowest volume per line length are sinking lines. They do not have the glass bubbles incorporated into the coating to make them float, so they take up less space on the reel. (Even thinner are silk lines, but that's another category all together.)

As we'd expect, intermediate lines fall in the middle.

In summary, most saltwater lines are the same as their freshwater counterparts - except for the box they come in.

Cheers,
Graeme

* I no longer use the Rio Gold, so that's been sold.

Well then we can disagree. I believe most salwater lines are different than freshwater lines. A Rio bonefish line is different than Rio Trout Mstery which is different than a Rio DT which is different than a Rio SH Spey which is different than a Rio Gold. I’m guessing, be ause you said you have these lines and say so, that they take up the same space on the reel though. Nonetheless, they are different. Lines are made differently depending on the application. Most saltwater lines are made different than most freshwater lines. They may or may not take up different amounts of space on the reel.

 

[sweetandsalt]

falconer, What rod, reel and current line do you have and what is your intended saltwater application?

 

[silver creek]

After further research, I stand corrected. There are some differences between freshwater and saltwater lines in terms of density.

"The density of saltwater allows us to create lines with smaller diameters, and therefore greater densities, without losing floatation qualities. The smaller diameter also allows easier casting in wind."

The tapers are different but I find this not any different than a bass bug taper vs a trout taper in a freshwater line for example. You can still a freshwater line in saltwater and vice versa. The difference in cores for temperature is also no different in freshwater or saltwater.

Freshwater Lines vs. Saltwater Lines | Scientific Anglers

 

[trev]

So I was in a discussion with a local vendor about putting line on a reel. He said that I could get a freshwater 6 weight line on that backing but there was not enough room for a saltwater line. I said what? He said that saltwater lines of the same weight are fatter than freshwater lines. So if each line is labeled 6 weight, how can one be fatter? Don't they measure the lines by weight in grains?

One key factor is that they don't have to weigh the same in grains overall to meet the rating requirement; on;y in the first 30'. The remaindering length can be heavier as in a DT (the first 30' includes the taper and the next 30' doesn't) or it can be lighter as in a short integrated shooting head (WF) where most of the length is small shooting line. Picture a five foot tall guy that weighs 300# and a six foot tall guy that weighs 200# and they both wear size 9D shoes- when weigh fly lines all we are seeing is the shoe size.

I am of the opinion that the biggest difference in many lines is marketing and perception. I believe that five lines of identical construction and taper but in differing colors and boxes could be marketed to several specialty groups and each group would applaud that line over others. I think no one that paid a $1000 for a Sunday line is ever going to admit that the $50 Wednesday is the same line different package. But opinions are like noses- everybody has one and they are all different.

 

[Rip Tide]

I wouldn't know the difference myself.
Years ago Dave Whitlock did a presentation at our club and I remember him saying to stay away from speciality lines and stick with regular weight forwards.
It was his contention that you'd be a better caster if you didn't rely on the crutch of heavy bass or saltwater tapers
That of course was fine with me as I never liked the idea of spending extra for something that I didn't really need.
Funny what sticks in your head.

 

[falconer57]

sweetandsalt, This all started when I recently acquired an old Abel #1 reel. I intended to put together a 6 wt outfit for specks and puppy drum in VA waters. My fly shop guy said that the reel would not hold hardly any backing with a saltwater line. The specs say it will hold a 6 wt line and 190 yds of 20# dacron. So I could not understand it.

 

[karstopo]

Some of these saltwater lines are really huge. Airflo tropical lines take up a lot of space per line weight. Titan tapers and Outbound Shorts are big, too.

Specks and drum, you hardly need any backing. I caught a 30 plus pound black drum and never got to the backing. There isn’t a speckled trout alive that will need much more than the 100’ of fly line.

Just don’t cast to any Jack Crevalle.

 

[deceiverbob]

Falconer57 does your reel have a large arbor spool? A super 4 spool fits a No. 1 frame but the listed capacity is 75 yds with a 5 wt line.

 

[karstopo]

Another way to save space on a reel is to use Gel spun polyethylene instead of Dacron backing. All my saltwater reels have gel spun backing. XTS Gel Spun Backing | Scientific Anglers

 

[wjc]

I bought two SA sharkskin lines at the local Islamorada Fly shop a number of years ago when they were on sale for less than half the suggested retail shortly after they hit the market. One of the guys there, Matt, was cutting off the welded loops and whip finishing new loops on them because the welded ones were no good and fell apart. But I wanted to try them.

I took about 5 casts and took it off. It was not nearly dense enough and sailed in the breeze like a kite even though it was the same weight line as what I was using for bones at the time, which was a SA MED 7wt. That line (also floating) was far denser and way better in the wind and cast much easier at fishing distances. I also noticed that the sharkskin floated very high in the water - which would be a great attribute fishing rivers if you didn't mind it chewing a groove into the crease in your rod hand finger when stripping line.

Clearly, it had to be larger in diameter to meet the weight range of a 7 wt. line than the MED - which was considerably longer.