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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Southeast Idaho

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    I use 20% Picaridin for insect repellent. Repellents that have less than 20% Picaridin do not work nearly as well.

    I have also made my own mixes with Lemon Eucalyptus oil, vanilla, etc. That works pretty well also. Although I am reluctant to use it in bear territory.

    For sunscreen I opt for long sleeves, long pants, buffs, and hats. Along with that I use a zinc oxide formula on my face and hands. Getting skin spots burned off gets old real fast!

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Re 'bugs': I've actually contracted malaria, in spite of fact that I was taking Chloroquine. These days, I focus on covering as much of my body as possible. Ticks are the currently my biggest concern where I live (mid-atlantic) and if out in woods, I do sometimes use Permethrin on pants. But I avoid it around water since 1) it's not a repellent and 2) it's highly toxic to aquatic life (Permethrin General Fact Sheet).

    Re sun exposure: Again, I focus on coverage. We sail on the Chesapeake Bay a fair bit and there is NO sunscreen that will last all day and resist sweating/water. So we generally wear sun protective clothing and broad brimmed hats. Sunscreen is reserved for lips and facial areas that get reflected light etc.

    I believe the data on sunscreen environmental impact is becoming pretty clear... we just try to minimize it.
    Palau Bans Many Kinds of Sunscreen, Citing Threat to Coral - The New York Times

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  5. #23

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmeslack View Post
    I do sometimes use Permethrin on pants. But I avoid it around water since 1) it's not a repellent and 2) it's highly toxic to aquatic life (Permethrin General Fact Sheet).
    Permethrin is highly toxic to aquatic organisms. However, in practical use, permethrin is safe for aquatic organisms. Unless you actually spray the permethrin over the water, it will not harm any aquatic organism, and the effects are temporary. So can use permethrin on your fishing clothes.

    The reason is that permethrin is INSOLUBLE in water so if the permethrin is dry on your cloths, it will not get into the water even if you get dunked in the stream. That is why it last through washings even when washed with detergents.

    My guess is that we kill more aquatic organisms by a short episode of wading than by the permethrin we use.

    See the World Health Organization report on Permethrin.

    "This report contains the collective views of an international group of
    experts and does not necessarily represent the decisions or the stated
    policy of the United Nations Environment Programme, the International
    Labour Organisation, or the World Health Organization.

    Published under the joint sponsorship of
    the United Nations Environment Programme,
    the International Labour Organisation,
    and the World Health Organization

    World Health Orgnization
    Geneva, 1990"

    Permethrin (EHC 94, 1990)

    1.1.6 Effects on organisms in the environment

    In laboratory tests, permethrin has been shown to be highly toxic
    for aquatic arthropods
    , LC50 values ranging from 0.018 g/litre for
    larval stone crabs to 1.26 g/litre for a cladoceran. It is also

    highly toxic for fish, with 96-h LC50 values ranging from 0.62 g/litre
    for larval rainbow trout to 314 g/litre for adult rainbow trout.
    The no-observed-effect level for early life stages of the sheepshead
    minnow over 28 days is 10 g/litre and the chronic no-effect level
    for fathead minnow is 0.66-1.4 g/litre. Permethrin is less toxic to
    aquatic molluscs and amphibia, 96-h LC50 values being >1000 g/litre and
    7000 g/litre, respectively.

    In field tests and in the use of the compound under practical con-
    ditions, this high potential toxicity is not manifested.
    An extensive
    literature exists on the effects of using permethrin in agriculture,
    forestry, and in vector control in many parts of the world. Some
    aquatic arthropods are killed, particularly when water is over-sprayed
    but the effects on populations of organisms is temporary. There have
    been no reports of fish killed in the field. This reduced toxicity in
    the field is related to the strong adsorption of the compound to sedi-
    ments and its rapid degradation. Sediment-bound permethrin is toxic to
    burrowing organisms but this effect also is temporary


    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  7. #24

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Interesting. Thanks.

    We live on a spit of a spring creek which in turn feeds into a river. Ticks have become a potential problem (wife got Lyme last year) but I've been hesitant to wallow around in permethrin coated pants.

    Sounds like it may not be as clear cut as I thought...

  8. #25

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    I didn’t want to use DEET anymore, not even lightly applied, it makes my nerves buzz. I knew that couldn’t be good for me. I tried Sawyer’s Picaradin, the stronger percentage. It’s been very effective. I can put it on bare skin and it’s much easier on my system. I read somewhere that it was a plant derivative, but I don’t really know. I started using it in Florida for general use because the mosquitos were so bad a couple of summers ago. It’s remarkably good and even keeps away sand fleas. Admittedly, I haven’t use it in the deep woods and swarms of mosquitos like some guys on here are exposed to, but I could at least recommend it for everyday use.

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  10. Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Thanks Silver Creek for the info on permithin. I spray my fishing shirt and bandanna and will be also wereing gloves this year treated with permithin. Here in Michigan the ticks have become a huge problem, the county I live in and one of the counties I fish in up north are two of the worst in the state for ticks. I have been warned by my veterinary about the hazards of ticks not only to my dog who we had to put down last fall, but also to humans. I have found the little buggers on me really bad two years ago. No more, the permithin and deet take care of that problem and I think the use of these products when used correctly are far better than what you may contract from ticks and mosquitoes. With that in mind I try and cover my arms and hands and face clothing that will also aid in keeping these pain in the you now whats away.

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  12. #27

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    I am a retired dermatologist whose practice was mostlylimited to detection and treatment of skin cancer. . I know a little bit about what the sun does and how the skin functions.
    I have cut skin cancers out of some of the best fly fishing guides in Florida. These appreciative guides have taken me on some unforgettable trips over the years. a most wonderful symbiotic relationship
    I dont lecture people since we are all "big adults"... I just share what I do...
    I cover as much of my skin as possible and always use a high quality sunscreen with both UVA and UVB protection.
    once in a while i will take my shirt off in the sun and get maybe 5 or 10 minutes of unprotected sun for some vitamin D
    but never more than that and never to get a tan. I have my vitamin D3 level checked and take vitamin D3 supplementation at the direction of my internist.
    I try not to put any bug spray on my exposed skin. I would rather try to cover the area with clothing that is impenetrable to their bites. I do use Simm's bug off hoodies and gloves and spray my clothing with all sorts of so called "natural" and "chemical"
    sprays to keep ticks and mosquitoes off.
    It is all really common sense, not rocket science....
    and if you get a bad melanoma that metastasizes, IMO, the best place in the world to have it treated is MD Anderson in Houston,,,,I biopsied a melanoma in my BEST fly fishing buddy of 30 years and found he had metastatic melanoma. I am convinced had he not gone to MD Anderson for his oncology care he would be dead today.

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  14. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Asheville, NC

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Skin cancer and ticks are to me, equally dangerous and one should do everything prudent to avoid either. Nothing else in nature compares to the death and injury caused by these two curses.

    (formerly Brook Rookie)

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  16. Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Cover up and spray Sawyer permethrin(Bugs Off) on fishing clothing...Sawyer's Picardin in lieu of DEET...Permethrin treated clothing was the only thing that kept the Andros "Doctor" flies from biting through clothing when tight to the skin...and Oka here's to you ...Why Ivan(late Ivan Neymour) are they called doctor flies ? when they bight you cut you you bleed......also for noseeums/sand fleas and only for those I use Skin So soft and lots of it... going out at night or wading just at first light...bisbone.jpgFeb2018Permit.jpgBisBoneBigShot.jpgBoneCold.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  18. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Sunscreen and Insect Repellant

    Be really careful with permethrin. In liquid form it will kill many things, especially cats. Always make sure that your clothes are completely dry before using them since it is a potent poison when in liquid form. Once dry it has bonded to the material and is quite safe.
    My best vacation is your worst nightmare. After all, it's only really fun if it is at least Type 2 fun.

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