Why Use Strike Indicator?

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texastomahawk

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I've only been fly fishing for a year, so forgive my ignorance here. I was just wondering, why wouldn't someone just use a dry dropper setup anytime they needed an indicator? I know sometimes fish will hit the indicator and seems like having a dry dropper setup would just be more beneficial.

Is it because split-shot nymph rigs and such are too heavy to keep the dry dropper on the surface?

Thanks!
 
partsman

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Yes, weight is sometimes a factor, also weather. Like right now here in Michigan there is not much if any top water fly activity going on. I don't use indicators much, I like tightline nymphing using sighter material or long line nymping just watching my line.
Mike.
 
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Unknownflyman

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In my state in was only in recent history multi fly rigs were allowed, it was single hook only, and some parts of the state is still like that. Personally for me and maybe because I`m old school, one hook is enough. I don't fish multi fly rigs, in any combination.

I use a strike indicator in the winter fishing tiny zebras, the bite is almost undetectable even with an indicator. But yes you don't have to use an indicator most of the time I don't like to. in regards to nymphing for trout in 34-37 degree water, yes
 
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Tombsy

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I use indicators fishing with chironomids in lakes from a boat for large rainbows. A lot of times with long leaders 15 to 20 feet or more using slip type indicators. The indicators release with a sharp tug to be able to reel in the fish close enough to land.


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flav

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I use an indicator because I'm often fishing water that is deep, and the weight needed to get a fly down will sink a dry fly. I'm also often fishing water that is fast, with lots of micro-currents, and the seams where fish hold are far away. In those instances I need to mend a lot, and quite aggressively, no dry, even a foam salmonfly imitation, is going to stay on the surface the way an indicator can in those conditions.
I do use a dry/dropper rig when fishing shallower water or where the fish will come partway up for a nymph, but that isn't often on the water I fish.
 
JoJer

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When I learned about indie nymphing in the 80's, it was distinctly different from what it is today. Then it was an indicator: The flys were weighted somewhat, but the indicator was designed to signal strikes, not float the nymph. The angler set the depth of the fly to keep it drifting naturally in the column where the fish were. It was a short drift managed with no slack between the indicator and the rod tip. The indicator would signal takes and a short lift of the rod tip would hook the fish. It's morphed into the bobber fishing it is today, and beyond into the various euro techniques and (what I think of as the real opposite end of the spectrum) drop shot nymphing.
When it was new, it seemed too effective and lots of people said it should be outlawed. It does get some new anglers into fish early on.
 
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el jefe

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Rather than "indicator", think of it as a "suspender", which might be a better term. It's for depth control, particularly at longer distances where tightlining becomes difficult.
 
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My typical leader setup is a hand tied mono leader 12’ long beginning with 30# Berkley Big Game Trilene mono and terminating with 3X RIO powerflex tippet. I usually position my yarn “indicator” (suspender) toward the end of that 12’ leader where I have attached a 12-60” section of 6-5X fluorocarbon tippet to the single weighted nymph. Most of the nymphs I fish are 24-16 beadhead midge pupa or 18-12 sz caddis or mayfly weighted nymphs. Since the nymphs are smaller, the yarn stays as small as I can get away with. I can adjust the yarn for depth, but if I anticipate making frequent adjustments, I will adapt the leader down to 4 or 5X to replace about half of the 5’ section of 3X original tippet section of the leader. Most time that is not necessary because I know ahead of time the stretch of water I am about to fish and the depth I need my nymph to be suspended at. With this rig, I can reach out to about 60’ from where I am standing and effectively fish. It also helps when fishing farther off to grease my leader to aid in mending tricky, complex currents and to make lifting line and leader easier for the next cast!


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silver creek

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texastomahawk said:
I've only been fly fishing for a year, so forgive my ignorance here. I was just wondering, why wouldn't someone just use a dry dropper setup anytime they needed an indicator? I know sometimes fish will hit the indicator and seems like having a dry dropper setup would just be more beneficial.

Is it because split-shot nymph rigs and such are too heavy to keep the dry dropper on the surface?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Lots of good answers. El jefe is correct that the strike indicator serves two purposes, as a method of suspension and of strike indication.

But no one has mentioned one key difference and the reason to indicator fish rather than to use a dry dropper rig. That difference is key when we choose the method(s) of fly fishing.

Allow me to go back to the 5 choices every fly fisher makes = They are the (A) location you fish, (B) the time of day you fish, (C) the water column you fish, (D) the fly(ies) you use, (E) the action you impart. I talked about these choices in this post:

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...8792-determining-right-fly-2.html#post1203417

What you are wondering about is choice C, the water column we choose to fish. You chose to fish the surface and immediate subsurface. That would be a good choice IF this is where the fish are feeding. When do they feed on the surface and immediately below the surface? The answer is immediately prehatch, during the hatch, and immediately post hatch.

However MOST of the time, there are no hatches and so where are the fish feeding that other 90% of the time. They are at the bottom or near bottom, feeding on the behavioral and nocturnal insect drift.

http://www.ephemeroptera-galactica.com/pubs/pub_w/pubwaterst1972p253.pdf

Nymphs, Stoneflies, Caddisflies, and Other Important Insects: Including The ... - Ernest Schwiebert - Google Books

So if the fish are at or near the stream and river bottoms where there is behavioral and nocturnal drifting of the nymphs and larva, that is where the fish will be feeding and where we should be presenting our flies.

Additionally, there is another difference between a strike indicator and a dry dropper rig in which the dry fly is the indicator. For the dry dropper, the dropper is the add on and we manage our casts and our mends so the DRY floats DRAG FREE. For strike indicator nymphing we manage the drift so the NYMPHS drift DRAG FREE. That means we mend the indicator to create a drag free drift for the nymphs and not to create a drag free drift for the indicator as we do with a dry dropper rig. So when indicator nymphing we have to IMAGINE what is happening with the nymphs and mend accordingly whereas with a dry dropper we can SEE what is happening with the dry fly and mend accordingly.

Finally, here is a post I made about dry dropper vs indicator nymphing in another thread.

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...348767-indicator-fly-heresy-2.html#post657384

The fly fisher with whom I was having the spirited discussion above with is Michael Vorhis, who is a fly fishing blogger for J Stockard

Michael Vorhis, Fly Fisher & Author | J. Stockard Blog Thoughts On The Fly
 
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texastomahawk

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Additionally, there is another difference between a strike indicator and a dry dropper rig in which the dry fly is the indicator. For the dry dropper, the dropper is the add on and we manage our casts and our mends so the DRY floats DRAG FREE. For strike indicator nymphing we manage the drift so the NYMPHS drift DRAG FREE. That means we mend the indicator to create a drag free drift for the nymphs and not to create a drag free drift for the indicator as we do with a dry dropper rig. So when indicator nymphing we have to IMAGINE what is happening with the nymphs and mend accordingly whereas with a dry dropper we can SEE what is happening with the dry fly and mend accordingly.


Thank you for the detailed post and links Silver Creek! I appreciate it. A lot of people have been mentioning depth & adjustability, which makes a lot of sense to me. I was curious about your take on managing the drift for the nymphs however. Do you feel there are a lot of instances in which you need mend the indicator differently to manage the drift of nymphs beneath the surface? By differently I mean doing anything differently from a typical mend (that we use on a dry for example). I know there are some funky mends when you're casting out over cross-currents sometimes.
 
huntschool

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Some of this strike indicator stuff has to do with where you are fishing which has been described above but perhaps from a different prospective.

Growing up in the North East I was privy to some of those blue ribbon trout waters back when there were many fewer people on them. There were days when I might not have seen more then two other folks on the water.... Those were dry fly days and perhaps a wet fly guy here and there.... Nymph stuff, if it was done was done with no one watching..... LOL

Now I live in the southern Mid West and have some fantastic trout waters over in MO and AR to fish but boy do they do it differently. First off they have few real hatches compared to the Eastern waters so most of what they fish are nymph set up with indicators. Its called "chuck and duck" by some. They do have hatches, but you have to look to find them and thats a whole different story...…

I have learned to do a sort of indicator thing by using a longer leader and two weighted "nymphs" with a slip/sliding yarn indicator or even a piece of sticky foam set for depth of water as described above. I use a 10' rod to do this with. It works like a charm.... I must admit it ain't dry fly fishing but when the water you are trying to fish can go from wadable to 12' deeper when the generator release gets turned and you want to fish you learn fast.

The drift is the important thing when wife and I fish these conditions. I can change my depth pretty easily and casting these weighted double drop rigs need to get where the fish are. Thus the indicators.

Doing a drop off an indicator fly like a hopper can be great at certain times but for us on these waters nymphs produce and an indicator of some kind helps.

Here is what we get for our efforts:





JUst some thoughts....
 
silver creek

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texastomahawk said:
Thank you for the detailed post and links Silver Creek! I appreciate it. A lot of people have been mentioning depth & adjustability, which makes a lot of sense to me. I was curious about your take on managing the drift for the nymphs however. Do you feel there are a lot of instances in which you need mend the indicator differently to manage the drift of nymphs beneath the surface? By differently I mean doing anything differently from a typical mend (that we use on a dry for example). I know there are some funky mends when you're casting out over cross-currents sometimes.
Click to expand...
When fishing dries, you mend to KEEP the dry fly drifting as fast as the current seam it is in. The water BETWEEN you and the dry fly determines whether you need to mend and generally the direction you need to mend because those currents determine whether the fly line and leader will drag the fly faster or slower than it should be going. You use air bubbles, leaves, naturals on the water, etc which are close to your dry fly to tell when it is dragging.

The same thing will happen with with indicator as with the dry fly. HOWEVER, even if the indicator IS floating DRAG FREE still may be floating FASTER than the water current that the nymphs are in. Therefore, the most common difference in the mends between dry flies and indicators is the fact that we often have to mend the indicator upstream because the water at the surface flows FASTER than the water at the bottom of the river.

This result in a "disconnect" between the indicator and the nymphs. The only way that the nymphs can drift drag free is if there us slack leader between the flies and the indicator. BUT unless there is tension between the indicator and the flies, the indicator CANNOT "indicate" the take of the nymphal flies by the indicator. So that is the conundrum. A strike indicator requires tension (usually downstream drag) to indicate the strike; but if there is tension, the flies are not drifting drag free.

Furthermore, casting an indicator rig is technically more difficult than casting a dry fly and I am not talking about the fact that an indicator rig is aerodynamically unbalanced compared to just a dry fly at the end of a leader. I am referring to the fact that whether we are casting a dry fly or an indicator rig, the flies and the indicator SHOULD land in the same current seam for the rig to begin "fishing" as soon as the flies hit the water. IF the INDICATOR and the NYMPHS land in different current seams; there MUST be DRAG between the indicator and the flies, and the flies will act unnaturally.

That is one of the advantages of direct line nymphing. Without an indicator to drag the flies on the "drop," fish will take the flies while they are sinking just after the cast.

A search of “Indicator Nymphing” on NAFFF is below:

indicator nymphing site:www.theflyfishingforum.com - Google Search


Also see this search:

indicator vs tight line nymphing site:www.theflyfishingforum.com - Google Search
 
nawagner

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flytie09

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I don’t know many places where hoppers are present in Dec-Mar. Plus I like the adjustability for depth control of an indicator. Now I’ve thought hard about tying up some indicator flies......you might have me playing around at the vise soon with some juicy bobber bugs or Indy drop doodle bugs.
 
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