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  1. #1

    Default Replicating a Leader

    I'm trying to replicate a leader that I have. Can anyone tell me if this leader formula makes send to them?

    Its about a 15' leader with tippet.

    Edit:

    I'm removing the leader breakdown because it occurred to me that the guide that gave me the leader might not want divulge the exact formula to me, let alone a fly fishing forum. Or maybe he was just busy. Better to be save.

    Good news, I learned that we use diameter and not break strength for building leaders.
    Last edited by brokeoff; 02-26-2020 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Could be TMI

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    The formula is incomplete,

    The formula lacks the brand of monofilament used in each section of the leader before you get to the tippet material. So we do not know the DIAMETER of the of the material. Lb test is NOT diameter and diameter is what is needed. Secondly, the brand of the material tells us the stiffness as well as the diameter.

    Most formulas will specify whether the material is Mason hard mono or Cortland Chameleon for the butt sections. It will also specify what the transition sections are.

    If the leader is a contact nymphing leader, it will specify what the sighter sections are, for example, colored Stren.

    You are going to buy 6 spools of mono for this leader. It would be a shame to buy the wrong material.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  5. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    When I replicate an extruded leader, I measure diameter down the length, then make sure to use a similar material.

  6. #4
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    Seems possible, but leader segments should be expressed in diameter rather than breaking strength, as mass is what's important until you get to the tippet.

    Consider 16# Mason hard nylon = .020" and 20# Mason hard nylon is .022", while Rio Fluoroflex Saltwater 35# is .021". If I build by breaking strength and ignore material, I get wildly different leaders from that formula. When you end up with big differentials in diameter, the smaller differential in density won't matter.

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  8. #5
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    A good trout compound leader should be tied according to the diameter of the material, not the pound test and each step down should not be more than 2/100ths of an inch
    For a long leader like that, you need to start with a heavy butt.
    19/100s for a light line (3-4wt) 21/100s for 5/6wt
    You want your formula to work out to approximately 40% butt, 20 % mid, 40% tip (bass and saltwater are more like 60-70% butt)

    There's plenty of formulas on line, but the one you describe isn't going to work that well
    The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart

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  10. #6

    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    The formula is incomplete,

    The formula lacks the brand of monofilament used in each section of the leader before you get to the tippet material. So we do not know the DIAMETER of the of the material. Lb test is NOT diameter and diameter is what is needed. Secondly, the brand of the material tells us the stiffness as well as the diameter.

    Most formulas will specify whether the material is Mason hard mono or Cortland Chameleon for the butt sections. It will also specify what the transition sections are.

    If the leader is a contact nymphing leader, it will specify what the sighter sections are, for example, colored Stren.

    You are going to buy 6 spools of mono for this leader. It would be a shame to buy the wrong material.
    Okay, so the leader I am trying to replicate is brown. I thought that meant that it was Maxima. I guess Mason comes in brown too? His leader material seemed darker than the Maxima that arrived two days ago.

    I'm trying to get some more info now.

  11. #7

    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by brokeoff View Post
    Okay, so the leader I am trying to replicate is brown. I thought that meant that it was Maxima. I guess Mason comes in brown too? His leader material seemed darker than the Maxima that arrived two days ago.

    I'm trying to get some more info now.
    It probably is Maxima Chameleon.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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  13. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    I use mostly Orvis Superstrong now, but i have a set of the Maxima here too

    25# would be .020"
    20#---- .017"
    15# ---.015"
    12# ---.013"
    10# ---.012"
    8# ----.010"
    6# -----.009"
    4# -----.007"
    3# ---- .006"

    You don't want to be using Maxima for your tippet...... TOO STIFF
    The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart

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  15. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by joe_strummer View Post
    When I replicate an extruded leader, I measure diameter down the length, then make sure to use a similar material.
    Micrometer needed here, Joe is right

    Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.


    Ard's Forum blog, Alaska Outdoors

  16. #10

    Default Re: Replicating a Leader

    Yes, diameter not #test for sure and relative stiffness/suppleness too. I for one, after doing a good bit of research, long ago deleted Mason and all Maxima types from my kit. Modern copolymers for trout and Fluorocarbon for salt for me. And I eschew formulas. When not employing a superior Braided or Nylon Furled upper leader for trout but making a 100% Nylon monofilament leader, I purpose build it for the intended application...lets say a 6-weight line to fish brown drake spinners.

    I'll start with a .022 4' butt of moderate mono like stiffer RIO, Orvis Super Strong or lower down, Trouthunter and I'll want a steep mid taper for positive turn over of larger flies so 18" of .019, 12" .017, 10" .015, .013 and 0X then switch to more supple mono like RIO Powerflex Plus, 18" of 2X and 4' of 3X. If I decide I need 4 or 5X so I cut back the 3X and build down. As I Blood Knot on each section I "parabolic test" it to the previous to assure I'm achieving my intended linear diminution in energy transfer with no hinging and checking each knot for breakage. Truth is I gave inches but do not actually measure, I go by feel and when casting I may cut back in and alter a length of transitional mono. When done, I'll soak the leader in warm water then hang it with a bit of weight on the tippet so it dries straight with no memory.

    Many years ago when Orvis Super Strong was new and I liked it, I built a salmon leader out of it exclusively. Fishing a famed pool on the Miramichi I lost a bright fish of about 17 lb. in the end game and my guide gave me a hard time about not using strongly traditional Maxima. I furrowed my brow then showed him the end of the tippet with the tell-tale curlicue of where the Turle Bend he tied had slipped out, not broken. The new fly I tied on myself using a double pass through Clinch I devised for loop eyed salmon irons...that did not come un-done.

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