Forced into Running an Experiment

[Pocono]

I ran an unintended experiment today and the result; to a large extent, surprised me.

Last week I was fishing up on the Lackawaxen Creek in Northeastern PA. It was a bright, hot day and although there was a great Hendrickson hatch going on, there wasn't any top water action from the fish. In search of less light, I found my way under a small bridge and there, in the shadow of the bridge structue, was the action I was looking for. The nice Hendrickson hatch and a lot of nose rises; so they were probaby taking the Hendrickson emergers just below the surface.

Well, I hooked into a nice fish and in my excitement, I set the hook vertically, whacked the bridge structure, snapped my rod at the second ferrule and lost the fish. Not a great moment for me. It was my Sage Z-axis rod; 9'0" 5 wt. I've had it for 3 years and it's been a great rod. It's on its way back to Sage now, so I should have a replacement in about 3-4 weeks. So, no long-term damage done.

But, in the short term - today, Marty and I were fishing Mud Run; one of our favorite pieces of water and I needed a 5 wt. rod. I toyed with taking my 9'0" 6 wt.; GLoomis GLX Max 9'0". But, it's a very stiff rod and it didn't feel right for today (it will be perfect for tomorrow on Lost Lake - smallmouths and bluegills, I think - stay tuned). So, instead, I grabbed my very old 8'6" LL Bean Angler 5 wt. rod. It's your basic starter rod. You know - rod, reel, line, backing, leader and tube for $75.00. Marty looked at me like I'd stepped off the dark side of the moon, but I said: 'I know, but I'm going to give it a try."

So, I ran the experiment and the result surprised me.

My casting was probably 90% as good with this rod as it usually is with my Z-axis. Now, I'm not an expert caster by any stretch of the imagination, but I was getting dries out there 70+ ft. today without much effort. So, about the same as I'd usually be doing with the better rod. I also caught my share of fish and the reel, although the concept of adjustable drag is questionable on this model, worked just fine.

This got me thinking. Am I really a better fisherman because I have better gear? I suppose at some level I am; probably where it gets very techincal and where pinpoint accuracy becomes the key to taking picky fish or getting skunked. But, on an average day, I'm not as convinced as I was before I ran this unplanned experiment.

On a temporary basis, what I'm taking away from today's experience is that better gear doesn't really make me a better fisherman, it just helps me to feel like I have a better chance of getting my share of the fish.

Oh, and by the way, when Sage sends me a new 5 wt., the LLBean Angler is going back into the corner; from whence it came. Still, I'm sure that I'll be thinking about the results of this expermient for some time to come. Maybe that rod won't stay in the corner quite as much as it used to(?)

 

[Ard]

Pocono,

I broke a favorite rod three seasons ago and the replacement rod is now my go to rig. I was fishing king salmon and had two come off my hook in the same morning. After checking the hook point and spotting a monster fish I made a drift right to him. The fish took the fly and I ripped the rod up & back like I wanted it to break. Break it did, it was a Greys Platinum X 9' 6" 7wt. and I loved that rod. I know, I know, what the heck was I doing with a 7wt. trying to hook a big king? There were a few sockeye coming in and I was looking for them. This small pod of kings were on the tail end of the run but were big and bright so I had to cast to them. I've landed a few with the Greys so what the hay, go for it right?

I fished my 9wt. till a very affordable replacement rod arrived. You no doubt have heard me rave about my Quarrow 9' 7wt. I still have the Greys but fish the Quarrow all the time, so experiments sometimes yield unexpected results. Now I have two of the Quarrow's just in case.

I fished

 

[FlyRichardFly]

I also did a experiment all last week.
I was fishing a local trout stockie stream, and wanted to have more fun while fishing.
First I went down from a 5wt Sage Fli 9' to a 8.5' Orvis Clearwater II 4wt, then down to a 8' 3wt St Croix Avid.
Still fun, but I saw a guy with crappy heavy spin gear catch more trout than me. He was using live minnows.
I got back on track with some micro-buggers and caught lots of fish.
Still, I thought it over and finally purchased a 1wt Superfine.
Now my experiment is over. I'm very satisfied and have a ball catching a dozen or more trout every trip.
For me better means "lighter" and more fun to fish with.
I wouldn't have had as much fun today if I used a 5wt for the 8" trout that I caught.
I love to flyfish. I learn something every time I go out. I tie my flies and watch them closely in the water so I can make adjustments. I make adjustments every time I go fishing. I've almost got it down now, but I'll check things out the next time!!
Now I can enjoy myself while I fish. I can place the fly anyplace I want and I know exactly how the fly is swimming in the water.
The Superfine was pricey, at $575, but I'll get a lot of enjoyment out of that rod.
To answer your question: Better tackle IS more fun to fish with...... and I know I catch a lot more with better tackle.

 

[arfishinbear]

I think,,,,,, I know we all get caught up in the more money the better the gear the better our fishing will be. The better gear does have some good point, lighter, a Little better, maybe get that extra 10 foot in the cast, drop a fly a little softer. I do belive however that 95% of the time MOST (not all) less expensive gear will catch fish almost as well if you know what you are doing.
Last fall I took my son after brown trout on the Little Red, I was useing a 500.00 sage and Lamson outfit with 75.00 line, he was useing a 99.00 Redington with the line that came on the combo. Halfway through the day I asked him to switch me rods, the idea was to show him how nice a high dollar rod is and to get a degree so he can afford such gear a little easier then his old man can. Anyway we switched rods and fished the rest of the day that way. Other then being a little heavier I was casting 70-80 foot if needed, puting the fly where I wanted and caught fish like I did with my 500.00 outfit. Does this mean I am going to get away from the high priced stuff,,,, ofcourse not, but it does mean I know I dontr have to have that stuff to catch fish nor does it mena that when I add more toys to my gear stash that they have to be top shelf either. I do belive that the TOPSHELF is better left to buying scotch :wink:
Bear

 

[jdorsey61]

Hey, Pocono, I'm with ya; same thing I've felt (and sometimes said) for a while. In fact, I'm so sick of the marketing BS that I've been reverting back to using 'cheap' gear just to prove the point.

 

[mcnerney]

Pocono: Sorry to hear about the damage to your Sage Z-Axis, that had to hurt! I feel the same way about expensive gear, I don't have to have a $300 Lamson reel to catch most of the fish that I catch, but I'm at a point im my life where I can afford it and it sure feels nice when fishing with it. Heck, when I was in Alaska I had an old Orvis Battenkill reel that I used for salmon fishing, eventially I wore the clicker drag completely out on that reel and continued to fish successfully with it even though I had no drag, I just learned to palm the reel, worked fine for a couple of years then bought a $375 anti-reverse reel to save my knuckles on those fast runs those fish always make.

Larry

 

[dshort]

This got me thinking. Am I really a better fisherman because I have better gear?

I think the better question is: Do I get more enjoyment out of fishing "better" (more expensive) gear?

I mean that's what this whole business is all about right? If you enjoy your fishing more with the more expensive gear, then go for it. I've never been that way with rods...my 2 go-to rods are both over 50 years old. They were modest rods even back then and I didn't pay a lot for them when I bought them. I enjoy the history and the story of these old rods and I enjoy the whole experience that much more when fishing with them. I do own 2 expensive English reels that I just couldn't resist because they are so smooth, have an awesome sound, and look cool on an old rod. Again, they add to the enjoyment of the whole experience.

I will say that I would be perfectly capable of enjoying my fishing even if all I had was a $10 cane pole and a bobber. I'm not sure I understand why another poster stated that he could now enjoy his fishing after the purchase of a $600 1 weight. Personally, if that's what it took for me to have fun fishing, I would re-examine my motivations for fishing in the first place.

 

[Ard]

dshort,

How's the fishing, hope you're knocking the fins off of em.

I too enjoy the use of really good gear. I just discovered that sometimes I cant tell the difference between Memorex and the real thing and that is refreshing. It wont stop me from using the big dollar stuff or buying it. I really enjoy looking down at my hand to see a custom built cane rod with a really fine vintage reel on board dangling there.

I don't crave cars, motorcycles, bigger homes, or even great wealth, I measure my success by that pile of good fly tackle. Well maybe I should reconsider that part about great wealth.....................

Ard

 

[dshort]

dshort,

How's the fishing, hope you're knocking the fins off of em.

Hey Ard, after a very slow start to 2009, things came together pretty well in April. I got in a 3 day camping/fishing trip to my favorite large freestone creek for some browns, 2 trips to a great central VA spring creek (also for browns), a couple trips for native brookies in SNP, one afternoon for largemouth bass, and some trolling for stripers on the Chesapeake Bay. Looking forward to the smallies heating up here pretty soon and I realized that I have yet to hook a rainbow this year, but I think I know a place where I can make that happen.

How are things up in AK?

 

[Ronnie z]

I havent fished the lackawaxen in twenty five years.Some of the biggest trout on delaware use to hang were the lackawaxen and Delaware meet.Hope that hasnt changed.Going back to the equipment you use .I guess it depends on the person whos using it.

 

[HuronRiverDan]

Pocono, sorry for your bad luck...I have to agree somewhat on the issue of expensive versus cheap...The high end rods feel great when you fish them; but that feeling when you screw up with one is terrible....lol Hardy, I know about just having to do it...LOL Fishing the PM here with my 7ft 3wt and having some early Kings appear...Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your view point; I didn't have anything in my flybox they were willing to take. But I did have to try...Don't know what I'd have done if one of those big buggers had decided to take my offering, but what the heck....

Dan

 

[Flyfisher for men]

In golf, there's an old adage that the game is 10% equipment and 90% skill. I think it's probably similar for fly fishing, especially rods.

I've said it before: invariably, if somebody outfishes me, it's because they were better fishermen.

 

[Ard]

On a temporary basis, what I'm taking away from today's experience is that better gear doesn't really make me a better fisherman, it just helps me to feel like I have a better chance of getting my share of the fish.

Oh, and by the way, when Sage sends me a new 5 wt., the LLBean Angler is going back into the corner; from whence it came. Still, I'm sure that I'll be thinking about the results of this expermient for some time to come. Maybe that rod won't stay in the corner quite as much as it used to(?)

This is a very good thread and a good topic for continued discussion. I used to be a can do fisherman with one tube he always took with. By the late 1980's I started to want more cane rods, then came the graphite binge. When I moved to Alaska I bought salmon rods like groceries, then came the 2 hand rods.....................

Has any of it made me a better fisherman? I think my answer will be very subjective in nature and I'll wait to see if we revive the topic before I tell the rest of the story.......

 

[pszy22]

Maybe it depends on how one quantifies being "a better fisher person". If it equates catching more fish, I could argue that better equipment may actually be detrimental.

At least where and how I predominately fish - trout fishing big waters using mostly dries, damps, wets (no deep water nymphing); I see alot of people who end up not catching alot of fish. I personally think the number one reason for their problems are that they tend to fish too long a line. They can't control, either actively or passively, what's going on with their fly. Typically, when they aren't catching fish, they tend to fish more line.

I sometimes find myself doing the same thing, it is fun to make nice long casts. I sometimes have to remind myself if I haven't caught a fish in a while, to start fishing a shorter, more controllable cast.

So if better equipment promotes and enables longer casts, it could actually be counter productive with regards to catching more fish.

My view on this has been reinforced over the past few years. I talk to alot of people who fish a fixed-length line system (read - tenkara). The most common comment I hear from those folks, they are catching more fish using that method. Here's the dirty little secret, it doesn't have so much to do with the equipment or method, rather the technique forces folks to fish a short, controlled cast. One doesn't need to discard reels to enjoy the same benefits, one just needs to make sure they are concentrating more on fishing, and less on casting. Again, if the goal is to catch more fish.

I do agree that there are conditions and situations where above doesn't necessarily apply.

 

[wabi]

IMO the cost of the rod has very little to do with fishing success.

 

[fly_guy12955]

I suppose the same could be said about fly fishing gear.

I have a very old '94 Winchester I think I could kill every deer in the woods with. I have a couple hi tech 7mm Rem Mag's that shoot flatter, harder, tighter groups.....and it makes me a worse hunter. Not by a lot but some. I put too much faith in the ability of the expensive hi tech rifle and less in my skills.

'I' am the hunter, not the gun. How good I hunt is entirely up to me.

 

[williamhj]

This is an interesting thread. Someone mentioned golf and that is what I'm reminded off. I'm a rather poor golfer, go out 2 or so times a year as a way to spend time with family. A couple years back I got a new set of woods and my shots of the tee and fairway woods improved drastically. I had been playing with clubs that impeded my game. When I go with my family now, folks often have a new club or are figuring out which balls he wants to buy. They are rather good golfers and perhaps can use new technology to get a bit more out of their game, perhaps. They find enjoyment in reading about equipment and tweaking what they carry in their bag. Me, those sorts of tech advancements would be lost and I'd be bored trying to understand the options.

I think my fly fishing equipment is similar. If I'm trying to throw pike flies with my 7'6" bamboo 4wt I might be able to get them out there, but not well. The equipment is impeding my fishing. But if I have a serviceable 8wt rod, buying a newer or more expensive one might not give me much pay-out on the river. Personally I get enjoyment reading about fly fishing and trying new gear. I could probably do all the fishing I do in Colorado and back in Wisconsin and Michigan with a 9' 5wt and 9'6" 8wt rod, both in graphite. But I love my two bamboo rods, my 2wt, 4wts, other 5wts and 6wt rods, and my 12' nymphing rod. I don't buy very expensive stuff because I like trying new stuff more than owning an expensive rod.

I will spend a bit on reels. I don't want line trapped between the reel and spool or bad drag on a poorly made reel, I prefer machined as I've dinged 3 cast reels rendering them unusable, and having spent time building a rod - choosing wrap colors, finish on the metal parts, grip material, reel seat insert, etc - I want a reel I find fits aesthetically with the rod. However, I've only have one reel over $150 (a gift) and most of mine are under $100.

I guess that's a long way to say, I think there is a point at which better gear makes me a better fisherman, but most 'improvements' will be lost on me and might not matter enough to me to warrant the extra cash. However, gear is a part of what I enjoy about fishing so I acquire more than I need. Though if we're honest, few of us 'need' any of it. With some exceptions in today's catch and release culture most are just fishing for pleasure anyways.

 

[wt bash]

I think its all a matter of comfort. I like slow deliberate rods, old "vintage" reels, what I view as the "best equipment" others would deem bottom shelf junk but as long as I'm comfortable fishing with my "high end" stuff I'm a better fisherman. I don't care if the name reads Sage or South Bend if I dig it I'll fish it with confidence and confident fishing makes for better fishing.

 

[wjc]

The costly vs inexpensive discussion, is one of the most often discussed, and sometime most hotly and obnoxiously argued on the internet - on some sites breaking down to include parentage, heritage and cerebral capacity.

Thankfully, on this site, I am probably the worst offender in getting obnoxious (usually over political stuff) - especially before I've had my morning pot of coffee - and apologise for all past transgressions.

Has any of it made me a better fisherman? I think my answer will be very subjective in nature and I'll wait to see if we revive the topic before I tell the rest of the story.......

I am keenly awaiting the rest of the story, Ard, and in the meantime will ramble a bit.

To me, fly fishing is more than just catching fish, just as rods are, to me, more than just a way of getting a fly to a fish with a reasonable enough presentation to expect the bite. If that were my sole outlook, I would have one rod and use it with lines from a 4 wt to an 11 wt. And you can't get much more economical than that.

But I like fly fishing to be an optimally fun "experience" of love - not a "labor" of love. My choice of new rods is based primarily on two things only; test casting and suitability for it's intended purpose (strength in dead lifting, for instance, for some applications).

This usually, but not always, results in an expensive rod. The cheapest rod I have bought since the mid eighties is my favorite rod to use of all. It is a 4 wt, unsigned, 7 foot bamboo with an Abercrombie and Fitch label and a green reel seat - almost certainly not original. I paid 200 bucks for it - two full tips and straight. It keeps a smile on my face (so long as it's not freezing cold) all day long - fish or no fish.

In general, I'm after a rod that requires me to use the least energy possible to accomplish what I intend to do - and the least concentration and frustration required to do so. In other words, I want to be totally relaxed and perfectly comfortable throughout the experience - until, "The Bite!!"

And I like "The Bite' to be explosive, and to send a jolt of adrenaline all the way to my hair follicles whenever possible. Whether I actually catch the fish or not is of secondary importance to me - it's the day, the water, the cast, the bite, the tug, the jumps ; in short the whole experience, the manner of catching, the commotion, the rush, the surroundings and the way the equipment performs for me throughout the whole day. But "The Bite" is the top of the mountain for me.

The looks of the equipment means very little. Even though it is pleasureable to closely inspect an exquisitely built rod, an ugly rod will win every time if it does the job I want it for better. I'm not staring at the rod except when I'm either longing to be on the water, or rationalizing an immediate trip - usually the same thing actually.

When fishing for bass, do I have more fish get off at 90 feet than at 40? Yes! Does using a bass popper 4 times the size of what everybody else uses cost me fish? Yes! Are some bass spooked because I am casting with the outboard motor running? Highly likely! Do I catch pesky little mayans or tiny little bass with a giant popper? Very, very rarely with the bass - never with mayans.

But.... With the motor running (aka kick or bump drifting) and casting long I can cover miles of shoreline, quickly bypass unproductive stretches and get "The Bite" often in a short period of time (happy hour) - and do it alone when necessary. Would I do better paddling and casting sporadically? Or shutting off the motor and sneaking up on a likely area? I don't think so - not on Maine smallmouths or Florida Largemouths.

After all, one of the biggest complaints I used to hear from guys trolling with outboards for landlock salmon in Maine was all the bass they kept catching. But if I am wrong - so what? I'm having fun nonetheless.

Anyhow, there is no such a thing as a "best" rod, even for identical locations for identical fish. There may be a "best" rod for one person's method of fishing and casting - but not an intrinsically "best" rod, regardless of cost. Dan's friend Bill is a perfect example of what can be done with an inexpensive rod. Perhaps a Cabellas Twin Forks is the "best" rod for Bill when distance casting. That is his call.

On an individual basis when I run across a rod model that just feels to me (again FEELS to ME) a giant step above the others I've cast - cost just becomes a matter of saving more money if necessary (but putting some money down immediately for that specific serial- numbered rod, even if it's a "store Demo").

In short, one guy's "Cannon" may be another guy's "tailing looper" or vice versa. And one guy's "Great line" may be another guy's " Kitchen sink with a tail'. In fly fishing, we don't all have to play with the same ball, and this can cause a lot of frustration and misconceptions with new fly fishermen.

OK, Ard, let's hear it!!

 

[Guest1]

IMO the cost of the rod has very little to do with fishing success.

Could not have said it better. Better gear may make your success 5% or 10% easier on you, but it does not make you a better or worse fisherman. I can adjust enough to make up for that 5 or 10% ease I get from good equipment to get pretty much each and every fish I would have with better equipment. I like good stuff, but my catching fish is me not my rod or my reel.