Started Tying My First Copper Johns But...

[FlyBum]

I discovered I do not have any Flashabou. I thought I had purchased some, but apparently I was mistaken.:doh:

Would Crystal flash work as an alternative in a Copper John? The fact that Crystal Flash is not flat like Flashabou is what makes me doubt and since I've never tied with either material I thought I should ask.

 

[darwin]

I don't think you need any. :icon_sad: Tying the Original Copper John

My bad, I always just used spooled clear pearl Mylar and thought that was the original. my apologies.

 

[MoscaPescador]

Pearl Krystal Flash will look off, but it will have a similar effect. You will have to put a few strands side by side.

 

[FlyBum]

Hope you don't mind my asking this its probably a dumb question...Ya I know there is no such thing as a dumb question.

I only have TMC 5262's which are 2X long and 2XH down to size 12, but want to tie down to 16's. When I first tie a fly I prefer to use the hooks and materials that the pattern I'm following calls for. I know that there is nothing wrong with switching some things up. After I'm satisfied with my ties then I might experiment.

I went to Allen Fly Fishing website to order some more 5262's down to sz 16, but currently Justin only has them down to sz 14. However, one pattern I read said you can use either 5262's or 5263's, but the 5263's are 3X Long would the addition 1X length make them look off?

 

[Ard]

Hi Tom,

In lieu of materials I would use whatever you have on hand. You may be pleasantly surprised and come up with something that will work well. I don't tie copper John's but almost everything I make has some level of substitution in the materials. Many of the knock offs work so well I've been copying my own stuff for years.

 

[ausablebrown]

I do it exactly like Ard...unless you own a fly shop, you're just not going to have everything that is called for. Many materials are great duplicates; and I can't remember when I read a recipe that I had everything exactly as prescribed. Hooks are the same way as far as I'm concerned...others may disagree, but you can get creative here also; the fish don't know (most of the time). You can fudge a size every now and then, especially when you have the next size up or down in shorer or longer lengths. What you put on the hook is way more important than having the exact hook. For example...I just tied a dozen bh hares ears. I wanted half 14's and half 16's. Just so happens that I got a big 100 pack of size 16 2xl nymphs hooks, so instead of tying 14's and 16's, I tied 16-2xl's and 16's in standard length. The size difference is just about the same.

It is true that the original recipes are tried and true, but if your copper john has most of the same coloring, size, etc. just make due like MoscaPescador said, put a couple strands of crystal flash side by side.

 

[FlyBum]

Ard and Ausablebrown: Thanks so much you guys always give excellent advice...even if I sometimes insist on doing things my way. I'm going to go ahead and give a couple strands of Crystal flash a try, but I've also hedged my bets and order some H2O flash from Fly Tiers Dungeon which is their version of flashabou.:wavetowel

 

[dhayden]

I never have used Thin Skin on mine - didn't know it was even there.

Does that stuff come in colors? Looks like Mr. Barr is using Black?

 

[FlyBum]

I never have used Thin Skin on mine - didn't know it was even there.

Does that stuff come in colors? Looks like Mr. Barr is using Black?

John Barr is using black and yes in comes in several colors the Wapsi website lists them all and shows pictures of a least some of them Welcome to Wapsi Fly, Inc. - Thin Skin

 

[BigCliff]

KF isn't flat because its twisted. Pull the twist out and you've got really skinny flashabou to tie in.

But I actually wouldn't worry about pulling the twist out. The point of the twist in KF is that it flashes at more angles. I don't see why this would be a bad thing on the back of a Copper John.

So what if it doesn't look right to you or somebody else? We're not the one's you're trying to feed it to.

 

[FlyBum]

So what if it doesn't look right to you or somebody else? We're not the one's you're trying to feed it to.

That is the trufe!:teef: That is a very good point I think a lot of fly design is more about catching fisherman than about catching fish.

 

[Rob11]

Hope you don't mind my asking this its probably a dumb question...Ya I know there is no such thing as a dumb question.

I only have TMC 5262's which are 2X long and 2XH down to size 12, but want to tie down to 16's. When I first tie a fly I prefer to use the hooks and materials that the pattern I'm following calls for. I know that there is nothing wrong with switching some things up. After I'm satisfied with my ties then I might experiment.

I went to Allen Fly Fishing website to order some more 5262's down to sz 16, but currently Justin only has them down to sz 14. However, one pattern I read said you can use either 5262's or 5263's, but the 5263's are 3X Long would the addition 1X length make them look off?

I wouldn't hesitate substituting a 5263 for a 5262. Yes, it's longer, but if you hold them together to compare, it's not significant. I prefer to tie woolly buggers on the 5263, but have substituted 5262s while I was waiting for a shipment. As others point out, fly recipes can be adjusted to accommodate what you have or what you prefer in the tie. Have fun and experiment.

 

[Chukwithak]

Out of curiosity, why did you just start tying the CJ's? I just tied my first one today, I'm following Charlie's book though. Buggers are next.

 

[Jimmie]

No problem with the KF since the whole wingcase gets covered with a blob of clear epoxy. Like mentioned above you should use a number of strands over the thinskin or turkey wingcase.

 

[luked]

Copper johns are one of my top producers and i always used the thin skin for mine and they seemed to work well

 

[stimulator2]

I love to use Copper Johns as a dropper got them in lots of colors pink, green, red, blue, black, gray,charturses. and i add a grouse feather for a sprase throax and trim the top off.Works good

 

[FlyBum]

Out of curiosity, why did you just start tying the CJ's? I just tied my first one today, I'm following Charlie's book though. Buggers are next.

Sorry somehow I missed this question till today, I didn't mean to ignore you. I started tying CJ's, because they are one of the most productive flies I fish and would rather tie them than buy them.



Thanks for all the replies everyone. I have since purchased the Fly Tiers Dungeon Flashabou, plus I also bought some flashable when I visited the shop where Dennis (MoscaPescador) works.

I've tied several now in 3 different sizes 12, 14, 16 and I realize that since peacock herl is tried and proven I should have used it. However, I've tied them with Fly Tyer's Dungeon Mr. Peacock dubbing and personally like how buggy they look. I'm going to tie more in each size with peacock herl just in case the fish don't agree with me.

 

[HuronRiverDan]

Tom, try tying some with Peacock Ice Dub; I think you'll like the effect.

Dan

 

[FlyBum]

Tom, try tying some with Peacock Ice Dub; I think you'll like the effect.

Dan

Dan, thanks that does sound good...I do really like Ice Dub.

 

[stl_geoff]

Tom, try tying some with Peacock Ice Dub; I think you'll like the effect.

Dan

I love that stuff!!! It makes any black inscet fly instantly better haha